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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
We need someone with a few million to spare to snatch up Wolfs Den for us, I will be happy to run it for you and turn it into a Moto-sport extravaganza unlike the world has seen but short of that...

I just got the word that it don't look goood for 2011 at the long standing ECJ spot in kitzmiller MD. Today is the last day at Kitzmiller until someone does something, sounds like it may be auctioned sometime this year, hopefully the state don't buy it (but they should) cause we wont be able to touch it after that.

HMMM maybe if some local peeps had the time and the motivation, it could be the first state run ATV park in MD, pilots allowed of course.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 885
Well that sux!
Why don't you lease it out then start a riding club?
Stoneman™


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:19 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Hare wrote:
We need someone with a few million to spare to snatch up Wolfs Den for us, I will be happy to run it for you and turn it into a Moto-sport extravaganza unlike the world has seen but short of that...

I just got the word that it don't look goood for 2011 at the long standing ECJ spot in kitzmiller MD. Today is the last day at Kitzmiller until someone does something, sounds like it may be auctioned sometime this year, hopefully the state don't buy it (but they should) cause we wont be able to touch it after that.

HMMM maybe if some local peeps had the time and the motivation, it could be the first state run ATV park in MD, pilots allowed of course.


Wow...that sucks!! What happened? How much are they talking money wise? Couple mil for 15,000 acres seems like a good deal.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
If everyone pitches in, then the p-o group can buy it cheap at the auction?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:37 pm
Posts: 824
Location: Howell, New Jersey
Wow that does suck. Hare - didn't we connect with a group that rides on an ajacent parcel of land? I'm sure we can find some other primo spot nearby...

Can someone draft up a smoking business plan that we can shop around to some investors? Anyone know Travis Pastrana?? Isn't he from MD?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:08 pm
Posts: 191
I do not think Travis & I would get along..His voice cuts right threw me..If I was awoke from a hangover from his voice who knows what would happen.. But if he can save the Den I could control myself..maybe..What about Streetbike Tommy..I could hang with him..
What about Tower City aka Rausch Creek Trailriders or some land near the PA spot where we can camp and launch from..Just want to keep the ECJ going..I did buy a Lottery ticket 265 mill..Who knows..Lets pool some money together pick some #'s for Tue. Stranger things have happen..Look at me. :shock:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:37 pm
Posts: 824
Location: Howell, New Jersey
Hare wrote:
We need someone with a few million to spare to snatch up Wolfs Den for us, .



Joe - really, how much do you think the property is worth? Have you spoken to any of the locals? I assume they would be interested in acquiring all or a portion....

If we do decide to buy something in the area as a group, here are some local properties under $100k

http://www.homes.com/For-Sale/MD/County ... ice=100000


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
It could be done but i am sure there are better cheaper alternatives closer to popul;ation.

4 million was the last i heard but that's too high for the area.
don't quote me on anything but i think it could be had for 2 million or less if it goes to auction.

its about 4,000 ac on both sides of the North hill road, there is a bunch of coal deep in the ground, there was a few hundred grand in timber might be still there, on all the rock and stuff like that the bottom has dropped out Doug was having sales trouble before the markets fell.

the riding area or even camping isnt going to be profitable unless it has running water and sewer, that was the whole problem with camping before. Other than that and an errosion control plan it be a piece of cake.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Hare wrote:
It could be done but i am sure there are better cheaper alternatives closer to popul;ation.

4 million was the last i heard but that's too high for the area.
don't quote me on anything but i think it could be had for 2 million or less if it goes to auction.

its about 4,000 ac on both sides of the North hill road, there is a bunch of coal deep in the ground, there was a few hundred grand in timber might be still there, on all the rock and stuff like that the bottom has dropped out Doug was having sales trouble before the markets fell.

the riding area or even camping isnt going to be profitable unless it has running water and sewer, that was the whole problem with camping before. Other than that and an errosion control plan it be a piece of cake.



If it went for 2 million how much would taxes be a year?

Any guess on how much could be made from the coal rights?

How would you ever patrol and or control keeping trespassers out of 4k acres? Local guy here has 300 acres for his ride park and its a never ending battle with guys cutting the fence to avoid paying fees.

Any ideas on insurance cost?

Heart breaker to see this place close I hope some way some how it will remain open.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
hoser wrote:
Hare wrote:
It could be done but i am sure there are better cheaper alternatives closer to popul;ation.

4 million was the last i heard but that's too high for the area.
don't quote me on anything but i think it could be had for 2 million or less if it goes to auction.

its about 4,000 ac on both sides of the North hill road, there is a bunch of coal deep in the ground, there was a few hundred grand in timber might be still there, on all the rock and stuff like that the bottom has dropped out Doug was having sales trouble before the markets fell.

the riding area or even camping isnt going to be profitable unless it has running water and sewer, that was the whole problem with camping before. Other than that and an errosion control plan it be a piece of cake.



If it went for 2 million how much would taxes be a year?

Any guess on how much could be made from the coal rights?

How would you ever patrol and or control keeping trespassers out of 4k acres? Local guy here has 300 acres for his ride park and its a never ending battle with guys cutting the fence to avoid paying fees.

Any ideas on insurance cost?

Heart breaker to see this place close I hope some way some how it will remain open.


I hit 2 numbers on the mega millions but that 3 bux probably wont cut it, wife says it rolled over again so should be 290 million next draw? Everybody go buy a few maybe one of us will get lucky then can buy it :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:37 pm
Posts: 824
Location: Howell, New Jersey
Hare - do you have contact information for the broker/seller handling the property?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
you can call Sherri or Doug might be flavored to suit but at least we have the bottom line closest to the source, what i heard has come thru Pete and Rick.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
From what i hear they are back open!!! This is tentative year by year, and may end with little to no notice, but hell yeah we will take it anyway we can get it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Hare wrote:
From what i hear they are back open!!! This is tentative year by year, and may end with little to no notice, but hell yeah we will take it anyway we can get it.


that's great to hear hopefully its open for many years to come.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:08 pm
Posts: 191
Good to hear.. Lets set a spring ECJ date soon..


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
501(c)3 Land Trusts and Foundations as a Method to Acquire Public and Private Lands
There are two distinct definitions of a land trust:

• a private, nonprofit organization that, as all or part of its mission, actively works to conserve land by undertaking or assisting in land or conservation easement acquisition, or by its stewardship of such land or easements;[1] or
• an agreement whereby one party (the trustee) agrees to hold ownership of a piece of real property for the benefit of another party (the beneficiary).

History:

Land trusts have been around at least since Roman times but their clearest history is from the time of King Henry VIII in England. At that time people used land trusts to hide their ownership of land so they would not have to serve in the military or suffer the other burdens of land ownership. For example an elder uncle would hold his nephew's land so they would not have to join the king's army. To put an end to this King Henry in 1536 passed the Statute of Uses. The statute declares that if one party holds land "to the use of" or in trust for another ("beneficiary"), legal title is vested in the beneficiary. Obviously, if the statute had been given literal effect, there would be no trust law. Shortly after the statute was enacted, however, English courts declared that the statute only applied if the trust was passive, that is the trustee didn’t do anything but hold the land.

Residential land trusts emerged in the United States after calls among civil rights leaders in the 1950s and 1960s in the American South for economic reforms to reverse rampant poverty.

An Institute for Community Economics was organized in the late 1960s to help residential trusts:

• Gain control over local land use and reduce absentee ownership
• Provide affordable housing for lower income residents in the community
• Promote resident ownership and control of housing
• Keep housing affordable for future residents
• Capture the value of public investment for long-term community benefit
• Build a strong base for community action
• Preventing foreclosure

Residential community land trusts are now widespread in the United States, but seldom gain much notice beyond occasional local news accounts.

The Institute for Community Economics in 2004 reported nearly 120 community land trusts of varied sizes in 30 states, the District of Columbia and in five Canadian provinces.

While a few earlier trusts faltered, the number of land trusts in North America overall nearly tripled between the 1987 and 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_trust

Examples of various notably successful Land Trusts can be found in smaller States on the East Coast: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=e ... 60fe5f5fe0

Of interest to and serving as an example of how OHV enthusiasts can create similar areas under 501(c)3 laws but learning from the mistakes of others, one in particular stands out among the rest given its 35 year history: http://www.simsburylandtrust.org/

So OHV folks, if you want an area that is free from the constant pressures of those who do not care for your life styles, simply create a 501(c)3 charitable "Land Foundation" where all donations are tax deductible and your contribution can be written off for tax purposes! Buy up everything possible and then, simply exclude those who do not conform to your principles of use!

Here’s a handy guide for how to get started! http://www.landtrustalliance.org/policy ... or-501-c-3


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
barnwell mountain and escondito draw are 2 such ohv places here in Texas that are done like this with great results!!!
http://www.texasmotorizedtrails.com/mc/ ... geId=90172
http://www.barnwellmountainra.com/
the Barnwell mountain area is welcomed by the local economy! The escondito area is kinda remote, and I have not been there yet! I do know there will be some Baja Racing of Texas races there next year!


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