I got lazy with the pictures, and waited to post the video links til I resized them.

http://downhomeracing.com/videos/Bobs_9 ... main-1.wmv

http://downhomeracing.com/videos/Bobs_0 ... rash-1.wmv

http://downhomeracing.com/videos/Bobs_09-12-04_h1-1.wmv

AND PEOPLE WILL BUY IT

Might just be one cute little video among a bunch of cool real video and pictures BUTT, right is right and I am feeling pretty rightous.

Who wants to stir the pot? I do, I do....NOT but I will, its my duty!

As long as people are going to post that BS here I am not going to sit quietly and take it. I left the other forums to let you guys have at the newbies unopposed. piss me off and I might just change my mind and be the P-O Morality Sherriff , again. In case somebody hadn't figured it out, I won't stop, but evidently neither will you. I guess the gentleman that posted that video here wants to stir the pot, Why? haven't had enough and you like this? Sneak one in and score one for LW? Not enough controversy here? You actually do think it is a good bumper? Oh Well, whatever, here we go again.

I hope that last video, "joke"?, was meant to show how funny/stupid the bumper looks sticking almost straight out, can't polish a turd. Or maybe it was meant to show how foolish I was to think a random group of guys on the internet would stand up against a scam artist like LW or the other rip off guys posing as "friends" whilst they take your money, instead of telling you where to find it cheaper. To think people would have morals and values or just a good old fashion friendship free of greed, was just plain foolish of me.

I mean come on now, how can any of you defend that POS (but you do), even the manufacturer pulled it with fear of liability(which wouldn't of happened if we didn't bitch for the guys that got took), it only confirms my feeling that many of you would promote the sales of bad products and to exploit the unknowing newbies that come around by not warning them of shady products or letting them know where to find the cheapest price. Sad more people don't stand up instead of just taking it, I know if I bought a bumper and recieved that I would have personally rebent it around LW's neck!

Yes all that from a cute little video. Why not film the bumper doing a 5 mph crash test or better yet 10mph even? Maybe because it has never been tested. WHAT? a bumper that has never been tested being sold to the public? Your kidding right? how could you sell a safety product without testing it? How would anybody know whether it is safe or not? Like it or not , spin it anyway you want but that is EXACTLY Steve Bishop (Professional Liar) of Aftershok Motorsports did do, and ever since had himself and his lackies defend it. This is a reputable businessman? At least not where I am from, maybe they just didn't have a camera when they tested it. wink wink

Add a couple of spears out the front and sides of that ram, then it would be the perfect for a Death Race 2000 machine.

I hope you people don't really think that looks good or think that it would properly protect the driver or car in an accident.

Is that a bumper or are you just glad to see me?

With a little more speed it should provide enough lift to become airborne.

maybe it was done to show people what kind of quality products AfterSh!t makes or to show how the founder/manufacturer/designer/marketer/sales/customer service rep's has mad fabricating skills, too bad it looks like a kid made it.

I can't believe LW didn't buy every bumper back and melt them down so no one could sue him for product liability.

hoser, was I wrong to post that link? It was not an attempt to upset ANYONE. It seemed relavent to an important issue this community faces. Say the word, and I'll only post happy smiley stuff here.

Dave C.

Nope your welcome to post what ever you want here I am pretty sure you been around long
enough to know what not to post aparently others do too since we have not had any real
problems, your right it is a important issue but some details would be nice, you cant just post
then expect someone to know what it is all about, some might take it the wrong way or assume
something they shouldn't, is that a modified Liewire bumper someone changed the mounts on
or is it a new and improved Liewire production updated bumper?

That is the new production bumper.

I am not angry, I am passionate, please get it right

a new LW bumper? well isn't that nice. I would love to see one in person

That is the game I am speaking of.
You guys can sit there and type between the lines but I am not going to.



You guys never seem to answer the questions but try I must. I made a small list.


so what is it you are trying to NOT say with "Important Issuse?

Oh you mean the important issue of How LW made some real crappy bumpers and instead of throwing them away and starting over he sold them to "our friends" anyway and then wouldn't take them back or admitt there was a problem until hoser and myself repeatedly bitched, bitch and bitch until the other board got shut down and then taken over, so we left, all because LW felt he was being unfairly judged on the P-O board by hoser? and so the greedy assholes could accost the newbies with out any rebuttal from the only two guys with balls enough to stand up against that BS and get labled a troublemaker cause we didn't play pattycake with some of you guys? oh you mean that important issue?

Why do you care about this?
(you all know my reasons, I have never understood yours cause you never have said)

Do you think the original bumper (updated or not) should have been sold to the public?

do you feel safety products such as bumper should be tested?

has the bumper been tested in a 10 mph crash test? 5 mph? even once? can we see the proof?

do you own one of those bumpers? have you ever? if so how much did you pay for it?

does the angle of the bumper look different than most other bumpers you see?

what effect do you think this angle would have in a crash?

why do you feel the need to defend and promote LW products here?


you all know I could go on and on....

its hard to hide from reality.

That is the new and improved, cool, its about time, its only been A YEAR since
the the poor design defects were pointed out, you know the very first bumper I
made for my Pilot would take the abuse shown in that video and more! Liewire
knows this for fact because I hooked the tow strap to my bumper when he towed my
Pilot with the broken HRD cover back to camp, every time my Pilot has been towed
back to camp it was done by the front bumper, Pilotman pulled me back at SL by
the front bumper MGR pulled me back once at the badlands and LS by the front
bumper, if I hooked a tow strap to Massodys bumper he bought from Liewire
I would have been towing just the bumper back to camp lol

So what about all the 350 bumpers he already sold to others they will be retro fitted
with updated parts or the owners are stuck with the flopper as seen in my video?
what about the guys that already modified their bumper and fixed the problem their selfs
because Liewire was avoiding the problems, they should be paid for their frustrations.
How about the nerf bars that Liewire says he is going to fix, it is been almost a year
yet nothing, what about the Pilot bumpers they getting changed too?

Hare you bring up some very good points and point out some very important issues
too bad that will be ignored.

Well. I'll try to answer all I can.

The word I used was upset.

I don't understand the "What is it you're trying not to say" question.

The split in our group was way bigger than this issue. If I can believe what I'm told, it wasn't Steve who called in the lawyers.

I guess I care because your point of view doesn't seem balanced to me. If I wasn't around it, I'd just shake my head. But I am, and feel the need to offer what I know. You have had valid points all along. When the slander fest starts, though, I disagree.

Regarding the sale of the original bumper, I would say no.

This is the one question that gets me. Do you have any test results, or knowledge of, from any of the producers of P-O products? I have never heard of testing results. I know the bumper I have refered to before was never tested, or else they were WAY more incompetent than you claim for Steve.

No idea about testing, but I would say no.

I have never owned a chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts bumper.

I have seen that angle on a number of buggie bumpers over the years. I would perfer it more upright.

I would not venture a guess on performance in a crash. There are way too many variables. You have no problem doing so, it appears.

I have never defended chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts products. As to promoting them, I don't think I have. All I've ever done was try to balance the "lyin' bastard intentionally tried to kill my friend" type of talk. And the video deserves to be posted if people are going to reference an old video of a different design.

I know you are passionate about what you say, Hare. I'm fine with that. But don't call me a lackey if I dare to disagree. I truely am sorry I fired you up, but you do the same when you rant.

hoser, I can't speak to what he did, has done, or will do.

Firmly planted in reality, Dave C.

Not sure who your directing the test results thing to but yeah I got all kinds
of test results on my bumper as I indicated before here, I might add that I
have removed and beat the dents out of my bumpers skid plate at least 15
times it has been tested so much, I am not selling bumpers to the Pilot Odyssey
group like others but ATV Racing is and I have test data on the ATVR Pilot
Desert Front bumper (w/skid) for $189.00, Kiowa tested this bumper against
a quad at Silver Lake and it protected the car real well. http://12.215.127.130/sl99-2.htm
I seen the whole thing happen, after actually laying hands on and video taping
the aftercrapola bumper mounted on Odykids Pilot I know without a doubt if
Kiowa had a aftercrapola bumper when he hit that same quad he would have
busted up his 350.00 tub and at least one front fender as it folded up on impact,
again its bottom mount is a hinge the top part of the bumper where you see
bent on kiowas crash tested bumper is the lever working against the bottom
hinge, I didnt have to hook a tow strap to Massodys 350 bumper to know it
would have pulled off the video I took where a guy is touching the bumper
with little or no effort is all the proof I need.

You didnt reply to my other questions I assume you missed them so will
ask again.

When will the Pilot bumper be updated?

Where is the update for the nerf bars?

This whole product deal is like pulling teeth what does a guy have to do to get some
customer service, why does someone have to "take it to the board" to get anything
done, why when it is aparent to EVERYBODY including you there is a problem does
a HUGE RANT have to take place before things are made right?
I remember when some mutt was ranting about the service he got from ATV Racing
, went on a extended "slander " spree over customer service, go to the old board and
search for IGSBATVR.

That BUMPER problem was so easy to fix, take me less than an hour to re-design the
mounts even less to CURE the problem, year later and your here with a fix and video.

The nerf bar problem is the same way 1/2 hr in design and maybe a hour to fix, year later
NOTHING!

Simply amazing, your right these are the type of vendors we need to embrace in our
community, and you think your "upset" good golly

The test data was directed to Hare. Acually the whole post was until the last sentence. When asking for test data, I don't mean results after being sold, I mean by the maker before being offered for sale.

I heard and replied to your questions. I don't know. You're asking the wrong guy. I'm not in business with him.

sorry, your right upset, I am not upset either.

Actually I am not yelling when I type , and usually have a smile on my face, guess it don't seem that way.

Dave I hear you and totally respect you answering and your point of view. Based upon your reply, I feel we agree on most points. I feel Open discussion is the best way to resolve differences, but when it becomes a pissing match as it has many times, no good is done. I try to stay away from it but can't help myself, I am very opinionated, if you couldn't tell.
Discussion good , pissing match bad.

This is not just about Steve, its not personal, I dislike ATVR, PCP and a bunch of other names and I have never used them. I know most of what people post are problems but I have seen some things come out of those places that are scary. who ever allows that work to leave the shop should be fired.

Most times when Hype or Sales Tactics are involved I shy away. I fell for it a couple of times ,got burnt and figured out my good local guy is the way to go. I think I have clearly stated that over time.
It truely is a shame it has come to all this but I have seen many friendships and a few clubs ruined because someone had dollar signs in their eyes. I thought POOA was an enity where money and possesions didn't matter, man i sure missed that one

I, we want and need vendors but not ones that are going to sell a bumper like that and then hide away from it. That was and is just plain wrong. we all know the other stuff too no need to recycle.

I see no difference between selling a $30.00 manual for $70.00 or $40. bore job for $80. or a $2.00 spark plug for $3.99. But LW and many many other shops are doing everyday. It is wrong to do that to somebody and still consider them your friend. they are a sale. Am I crazy or what?

Are you going to tell me this is what a friend does sells plugs for $4.00? again not me
I think he should share the same info as we do here and not hold it for his own profit. If nothing else buy the plugs for $2.00 and sell them for $2.50 a tiddy 25% profit not 100%.


I heard LW sells Honda parts too, where does he get them from? Hillside ? Service?

I am not acusing anyone of anything, just asking a valid question.

I haven't heard of Steve selling Honda parts.

No hard feelings here.

You don't know him very well then do you, you sure you even know him or what he is up to at all?

Below is a screen caputre another concerned POOA member sent me, it is supose to be
from aftermuttmotorsports.com web page, I am ban and cant view it but trust the
source that sent it to me enough to know it is not faked, don't take our word for it
go look yourself, call hillside for a current price check, do your homework and gather
facts make sure you know what your defending that is why we made the first bumper
video 90% would think we were making it up.

350 Belt from your "friend" $82.95
The same 350 belt from service honda is $71.98
The same 350 belt from Hillside Honda is 64.76

Why is he charging his "friends" $18.19 more for the same belt why isnt he just
advising them to buy from hillside honda, is he making money off our hillside
honda good guy discount? you think VJB set that up so that mutt can make a profit?

Just the other day Pilotman just got hillside to give us a better deal, more of a
discount so others can resell parts to make more profits? What is going to happen
when hillside catches on and we lose the the good guy discount and were all back
to paying more because of some mutt abusing the discount?
You going to pay the difference in my parts cost or just say "I am sorry"?
I got a attic full of "I am sorry" and let me tell you they do me no good! they are
about as worthless as a "friend" selling me a belt for 18 bux more than I should
be paying. don't get me started!

What will hillsides reaction be when they find out someone abusing the discount and
decides they might as well make the profits rather than someone else.

I know I bet he didnt buy the belts he is selling from hillside...

Yeah he is great to have as a friend and around POOA doing us all a favor haha

I checked with Hillside to make sure the discount was not being abused and unless he is using another name, neither he nor afterthought, have purchased any significant quanties of anything in the recent past. They were, as am I, concerned that others would resell the parts and as I stated previously the discount is not to be used so someone can turn around and sell the parts on their own or on ebay. I still remember my disgust when we someone tried to sell the information on how to get the discount on ebay. If need be, those found in violation will be banned from getting the discount altogether...

If you want to sell the parts you buy from hillside, do as I do... bring them with you on rides and sell them to someone who needs them in the field for what you paid for them. That is what this group use to be about...helping a friend in need and then telling them where to get the deal you got...

Don't Profit from your Hobby!

Pilotman

I am positive I know him at all! How well, who can ever say?

Just for both sides, I went and called my local Honda dealer for a price on the FL350 drive belt.
$102.55 I don't feel him selling it for $83 makes him a bad guy, just not my first choice if I need a 350 belt.

I 100% agree anyone using the discounts for gain is risking a good thing for us all and shouldn't be able to get the discount.

The root cause for this conversation and what others are trying to point out is why is
he selling belts in the first place, some might ask WHY NOT point them to Hillside
Honda or Service Honda for a belt? So some might say your idea of not charging
$102.55 for the belt us a mute point , it plays more as an excuse to profit off others
than anything else, some could even flaunt the fact that he is saving people 19.60
using your method of thinking.

Since he is doing nothing wrong then NOBODY should be upset by people pointing
things like this out.

Last time for me...

I think he carries stock of that belt, or intends to, all the time. Since i don't think he has use of the warehouses Honda dealers have, he must buy them at his best price, and add some. Someone needing a belt could, very possibly get it quicker from him than either Hillside or Service. He's another source. Damn!

What about the price that Hillside charges me if I DON'T ask for the good guy discount. Where do you draw the line?

I think I'll do what Hare did, leave a board for the others good.

"I think I'll do what Hare did, leave a board for the others good."

"Since he is doing nothing wrong then NOBODY should be upset by people pointing
things like this out."