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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:10 pm 
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Location: Chicago
I got some time this after noon to tear into the TRX, I pulled the top end to find a cracked wiseco 1.25mm piston, the guy used 2 CHROME lug nuts for the cylinder nuts and they both had LESS torque on them than the other nuts that appear to be stock nuts the chrome homo sent out to be chromed.

Have money for billet, powder coat, chrome, carbon fiber but no money for a new intake boot gotta love it !


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crackboot.jpg
crackboot.jpg [ 58.37 KiB | Viewed 19861 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:13 pm 
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Here are the chrome bling bling good looking cylinder nuts that DIDNT retain torque and DAMAGED the cylinder..... The wrong nuts when torqued trenched a groove into the luminum cylinder now the flat machined surface has been removed and even when using the right factory cylinder nuts it wont have a flat even surface to achieve and maintain the proper torque, the only fix will be to have the damage surface machined flat again.


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chromenuts.jpg
chromenuts.jpg [ 24.45 KiB | Viewed 19859 times ]
chromenutsdamage1.jpg
chromenutsdamage1.jpg [ 41.81 KiB | Viewed 19859 times ]
chromenutsdamage.jpg
chromenutsdamage.jpg [ 36.56 KiB | Viewed 19859 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:17 pm 
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At first glance the cylinder looks ported a closer looks reveals a 10 min port job, I will have to take some careful measurements to ensure they didn't raise the exhaust port from what I see it don't look like they raised it at all, this is a good thing because I have another blank slate to play with maybe make it a 265cc ?


Attachments:
trxport.jpg
trxport.jpg [ 56.76 KiB | Viewed 19858 times ]
trxport1.jpg
trxport1.jpg [ 41.87 KiB | Viewed 19858 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:19 pm 
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Red arrows point to areas that were never touched by a tool, these are the port roofs.



P85P means its a 1985 cylinder?


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trxport2.jpg
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trxport3.jpg
trxport3.jpg [ 47.51 KiB | Viewed 19857 times ]
trxport4.jpg
trxport4.jpg [ 43.28 KiB | Viewed 19857 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:21 pm 
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Bottoms of the transfers untouched, you can see where they dug a crater on the side of the exhaust port (pink arrow) I don't think any real harm was done just makes me think it was someone trying to clean things up not a professional port job, at least I hope someone didnt PAY for what I see here.


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trxport5.jpg
trxport5.jpg [ 42.59 KiB | Viewed 19856 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Another shot of the bottoms of the transfers untouched, unmatched.


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trxport6.jpg
trxport6.jpg [ 48.09 KiB | Viewed 19855 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Stock Honda reed cage with metal reeds, BILLET .500 thick reed spacer, money for billet, powder coat, chrome, carbon fiber but no money for a new reed cage or to update reed petals kinda funny, IMO the stock metal reeds work really GOOD perhaps that is why he kept them?


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trxreeds.jpg
trxreeds.jpg [ 34.91 KiB | Viewed 19853 times ]
trxreeds1.jpg
trxreeds1.jpg [ 22.38 KiB | Viewed 19853 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:28 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Worn out rings, compare the ring width where the green and red arrows.


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trxrings.jpg
trxrings.jpg [ 36.2 KiB | Viewed 19852 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:30 pm 
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Here are some pics of the exhaust port nice layer of carbon build up probably what was broken off and sucked back into the Engine causing the vertical scuffing you see on the exhaust side of the cylinder wall, notice the "wet line"


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trxexhaust.jpg
trxexhaust.jpg [ 59.28 KiB | Viewed 19851 times ]
trxexhaust1.jpg
trxexhaust1.jpg [ 48.9 KiB | Viewed 19851 times ]
trxexhaust2.jpg
trxexhaust2.jpg [ 43.53 KiB | Viewed 19851 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:32 pm 
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The head, I will have to cc but looks stock to me.


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trxhead.jpg
trxhead.jpg [ 40.87 KiB | Viewed 19849 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Here is the piston.

Not sure what that spot on the exhaust side of the piston is all about I assume its return pulse wave trying to shove flame back into the cylinder at a particular RPM ?

Even at a bore of 1.25mm all is good if that exhaust was not raised even better another blank slate for me to play with, for now it will get this top end stock so I can see how it runs.





More here http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=2390

I can easily slip a .007 feeler gage between the piston and cylinder at the skirt end.


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trxpiston.jpg
trxpiston.jpg [ 29.08 KiB | Viewed 19848 times ]
trxpiston1.jpg
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trxpiston2.jpg
trxpiston2.jpg [ 23.05 KiB | Viewed 19848 times ]
trxpiston3.jpg
trxpiston3.jpg [ 27.66 KiB | Viewed 19848 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:19 am 
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Good thing you desided to go through her, that cracked piston would not have lasted long. Looks like he was learning how to use a dremel to me. Only area that look like he removed material is the intake round ports leading into the transfers. The exhaust looks to be very rough but could be the buildup too. You deside to swap on the stock jug for now? I would do it, then do a race port on that one and save it for the dunes, but that's just me. :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:48 am 
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Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
Good thing you desided to go through her, that cracked piston would not have lasted long. Looks like he was learning how to use a dremel to me. Only area that look like he removed material is the intake round ports leading into the transfers. The exhaust looks to be very rough but could be the buildup too. You deside to swap on the stock jug for now? I would do it, then do a race port on that one and save it for the dunes, but that's just me. :-)


Yup I want to try it stock, it will only cost me a few gaskets and a circlip to try it ,I bet a fine tuned stock machine with a strong emphasis on torque will be all the power I need, guys on dizzy board are telling me the FMF Fatty pipe has to go and I need a Paul Turner Type 6 if I want more bottom end, I didnt care for the current top end hit it has.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:19 am 
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They are right on the money. The 250Rs FMFs... fatty, gold, ect are not much different than stock power wise but have that tingy sound(goes well with the bling!)LOL. The Paul Turners and ESRs have done thier homework and make the POWER. They do float through Ebay regularly but never go cheap(or at least what I call cheap).

Just an idea, the newer cr250s used a power valve jug. They make alot of torque too. I am not sure what will interchange with your bottom end but may be worth looking into. I do alot of Ebay seaching in the mini, micro sprint areas and have found alot of dirt cheap 350/250R usable items there too.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:36 am 
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Nuke Em wrote:
They are right on the money. The 250Rs FMFs... fatty, gold, ect are not much different than stock power wise but have that tingy sound(goes well with the bling!)LOL. The Paul Turners and ESRs have done thier homework and make the POWER. They do float through Ebay regularly but never go cheap(or at least what I call cheap).

Just an idea, the newer cr250s used a power valve jug. They make alot of torque too. I am not sure what will interchange with your bottom end but may be worth looking into. I do alot of Ebay seaching in the mini, micro sprint areas and have found alot of dirt cheap 350/250R usable items there too.


I noticed too that TRX stuff is going pretty cheap I suspect it is because people are going to the 450R's 4 strokes.

I might snatch up a few of them big bores if I can get them at a reasonable price just to try.

Dunno anything about the CR's and if they will mate up to the TRX


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:37 am 
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I put a lite hone on the cylinder to see just how straight it was using a ridged Sunnen AN-112 hone not sure how you could do this with a flex hone.


I know its sometimes hard to see in pictures you loose so much in a pic, so I put some small red and blue arrows pointing at some of the hi and low spots, the blue is high spots and the red is low spots I didn't mark all of them just a few to give you a some sort of idea.


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hone-hi-lo.jpg
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bore-hi-lo1.jpg
bore-hi-lo1.jpg [ 52.35 KiB | Viewed 19826 times ]
bore-hi-lo2.jpg
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bore-hi-lo3.jpg [57.33 KiB]
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bore-hi-lo4.jpg
bore-hi-lo4.jpg [ 59.04 KiB | Viewed 19826 times ]
bore-hi-lo5.jpg
bore-hi-lo5.jpg [ 58.86 KiB | Viewed 19826 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:53 am 
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It doesn't look too bad but like you said, hard to tell in a picture. You have the bore machine and are going to have to order a new piston anyway.... Might as well just go the the next piston up just to make sure its a good straight clean bore to start over with. My humble opinion again.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:16 am 
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Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
It doesn't look too bad but like you said, hard to tell in a picture. You have the bore machine and are going to have to order a new piston anyway.... Might as well just go the the next piston up just to make sure its a good straight clean bore to start over with. My humble opinion again.


Oh yeah it will get bored for sure I will make a cut and remove .001 from the bore (increase bore size .002) to see if the cutter makes contact all the way around from top to bottom so I know I can straighten the bore without having to go big, then measure the bore to determine what piston to order, right now I can put a .007 feeler gage between the largest part of the piston and cylinder so by time I get the bore straight I bet I will be going up 2 bore sizes, without measuring it looks like someone wasted a bore by putting in the 'extra wiseco clearance so it don't seize' I don't see me getting the bore straight with the hone and dropping the next size cast piston in the cylinder is just too uneven, on Pilotmans Pilot cylinder I was able to just hone it and go to the next size Honda piston they over bored his cylinder so much (ATV Racing) http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=2045


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:02 pm 
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Usually you measure the ring end gap with a feeler gage here you can use a tape measure lol


Attachments:
top-ring.jpg
top-ring.jpg [ 67.97 KiB | Viewed 19816 times ]
bottom-ring.jpg
bottom-ring.jpg [ 80.13 KiB | Viewed 19815 times ]
top-ring-closeup.jpg
top-ring-closeup.jpg [ 16.39 KiB | Viewed 19812 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:04 pm 
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Location: Chicago
AS a result of running a large ring end gap you get fire and blow by blowing through the gap and trying to remove the oil film from the piston and cylinder you can see where it tried to stick to the cylinder bore.

Blue arrow is the ring locator pin.


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scuff.jpg
scuff.jpg [ 27 KiB | Viewed 19814 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:12 pm 
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Bore measures 2.645 or 67.183 mm


Pro-X makes pistons from 66mm to 69mm in .010 increments


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:03 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Ok I got rained out at work today so stopped by a buddys and we split the cases on the trx Engine, needs crank and bearings as I already intended on replacing, don't look like I will be getting a 86 crank from Honda anytime soon so should I go to the 87 or 88-89 crank and use a spacer plate? Where do I get the spacer plate?

Both bearings on the balancer are BAD do you guys just replace the balancer or do you replace the beaqrings, whats the trick to removing the larger bearing? I see they list one for 86 - 87 and one for 88-89 are they different?

Can someone refresh me on the clutch rod and ball thing, when I removed mine the ball is stuck (welded?) to the rod isnt their a upgrade for this?

I need part number 5 in the pic below one of the towers that holds the spring broke (22120-KAE-010 CENTER COMP., CLUTCH) anybody have a used one?


Image


Any other mods or upgrades I need to do whilst I have the bottom end apart?

Anybody have a complete good bottom end for sale? :eek:


Thanks again guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:05 pm 
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Here are some pics, the spring tower? broke off and the spring pushed the head of the bolt out and rubbed on the case.


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Dsc03631.jpg
Dsc03631.jpg [ 60.43 KiB | Viewed 19837 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:06 pm 
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Pics of the case where the bolt was rubbing I think the case is ok just need to debur the case and remove all the aluminum.


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Dsc03625.jpg
Dsc03625.jpg [ 61.04 KiB | Viewed 19836 times ]
Dsc03627.jpg
Dsc03627.jpg [ 54.9 KiB | Viewed 19835 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:07 pm 
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Cases and parts in the cleaning tub that's aluminum flake in the bottom.


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Dsc03635.jpg
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Dsc03636.jpg
Dsc03636.jpg [ 71.37 KiB | Viewed 19829 times ]
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