Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Mudbogger ATC Engine CSI
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger sent me a basket case Engine, well its mostly together he started working on it then got frustrated and just shipped it to me, I got a little caught up this weekend so thought I would take a quick look inside so parts could be ordered.

The cylinder looks like it had a new piston installed and it was never honed, if it was honed it was not done correctly their is not cross hatch pattern, the ports were not beveled the exhaust bridge was not relieved no holes were drilled in the piston.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Parts list.

TWO 90601-430-000 Cir CLIP (1.2X18) circlips
SIX 90011-HA2-000 BOLT, SPECIAL STUD head studs
SIX 90443-107-000 NUT, CAP (8MM) head nuts
TWO 94301-12200 PIN, DOWEL (12X20) cylinder dowels
FOUR 94050-10000 NUT, FLANGE (10MM) Cylinder nuts
ONE 90445-KAE-000 WASHER, LOCK (18MM) Big lock washer for clutch
SIX 22321-KF0-770 PLATE, CLUTCH metal clutch plates.
ONE 22100-HA2-000 OUTER COMP., CLUTCH Clutch basket
(((Rings coming from Odystable)))




I will add more as required.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Since you already ordered some parts I will start a "PARTS II" section to add the rest of the parts needed, don't ORDER PARTS UNTIL I TELL YOU TO!!!! this is just a list!!!

=========================================================================
PARTS LIST II ((These are the bottom end case gaskets and seals))

91202-KA3-711 OIL SEAL (10X17X4) $3.56 $2.7 <Remove>
91207-ML3-003 OIL SEAL (28X40X8) $9.45 $7.18 <Remove>
91202-HA2-771 OIL SEAL (28X50X8) $10.15 $7.7 <Remove>
91201-KA4-004 OIL SEAL (38X58X11) $13.65 $10.36 <Remove>
11352-HA2-000 GASKET, L. COVER $10.71 $8.13 <Remove>
11395-HA2-306 GASKET, R. $15.77 $13.05 <Remove>
91204-KF0-003 OIL SEAL (20X28X5) $5 $3.8 <Remove>


Attachments:
DSC05035.JPG
DSC05035.JPG [ 58.04 KiB | Viewed 22705 times ]
DSC05036.JPG
DSC05036.JPG [ 54.32 KiB | Viewed 22705 times ]
DSC05037.JPG
DSC05037.JPG [ 57.93 KiB | Viewed 22705 times ]
DSC05038.JPG
DSC05038.JPG [ 55.44 KiB | Viewed 22705 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is the piston it has the anti scuff coating on the skirts, some is worn off.

The bottom ring has the tip busted off I assume it was snagged when the cylinder was put on and broken then.

The as found piston to cylinder clearance is .0025 the piston is usable I cleaned up the damage with a small file just need a new set of rings, if you feel uncomfortable running the piston with a nick out of it PLEASE buy a new one and give me the old one I will run it some day in they future heh. :-)


Attachments:
DSC05050.JPG
DSC05050.JPG [ 50.85 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
DSC05051.JPG
DSC05051.JPG [ 48.75 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
DSC05052.JPG
DSC05052.JPG [ 57.15 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
DSC05056.JPG
DSC05056.JPG [ 53.94 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
Dsc05057.jpg
Dsc05057.jpg [ 60.08 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
Dsc05062.jpg
Dsc05062.jpg [ 63.5 KiB | Viewed 22704 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
All the studs are rusted up and the threads damaged the head nuts are no better not sure how people think they can get a accurate torque with fasteners like this, they are JUNK when you see them rusted up that bad they are PAST their useful life you can clean them up but they will just rust again, the real problem with these is I cleaned them up with a wire brush then ran a die nut over them and they still don't feel right when you try to screw the nut on, in the trash they go, the studs and head nuts will be replaced so when the Engine is assembled we will know it will not receive a false torque.


I spent about 1 hr removing and trying to clean up these studs..

What good does it do to use a expensive torque wrench on a POS fastener like this?

Rant off...


For now lol :shock:


Attachments:
DSC05068.JPG
DSC05068.JPG [ 45.08 KiB | Viewed 22703 times ]
File comment: Top one is out of focus look at the lower one
DSC05069.JPG
DSC05069.JPG [ 58.46 KiB | Viewed 22703 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Hoser-I do not remember the Piston having that mark/broken ring on it-I looked it over pretty good in fact-that may have happened during shipping or me handling it here perhaps, I am almost positive that was not damaged inside the motor-I would have noticed it and posted it-in fact let me look at the 250r CSI thread-I know I pictured that piston in it-
Should we split the bottom end on this thing?
I didnt do anything to it except remove the clutch basket and the jug off it-nothing else-

opps my bad look at this picture in my 250r CSI thread DSC05050.JPG you;ll clearly see the damage to the piston Hoser has pictured-lol great to have those pictures huh?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Rant back ON :shock: Some moron used some sort of rotary power tool to clean off the top of the cylinder naturally its NOT FLAT, HELLO WTF you think would happen with you take a abrasive tool then hook it to a POWER TOOL you actually think its going to remove the gasket and not the aluminum, if you do your STUPID!!!! you deserve to be setting on your broken down POS bike watching others RIDE! you deserve to have your buddys poke fun at you as they tow your broken crap back to camp, you should apologize to them for wasting their time.

How long does it take to remove GOOD studs without damaging them then hand scrap off ALL the old gasket residue?

Normally it takes me about 15 min, only about 3-4 minutes are used to clean the gasket surface BY HAND!

Cant count the amount of times I seen this damage done to cylinders, heads, Engine cases.


Attachments:
DSC05070.JPG
DSC05070.JPG [ 59.58 KiB | Viewed 22701 times ]
Dsc05073.jpg
Dsc05073.jpg [ 56.67 KiB | Viewed 22701 times ]
Dsc05074.jpg
Dsc05074.jpg [ 52.6 KiB | Viewed 22701 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
So far what I have done is inspected the top end, I honed the cylinder and beveled the ports, relieved the exhaust bridge, lapped the top of the cylinder FLAT, lapped the head thankfully they never attacked it with a power tool it was found to be flat it just needed a good cleaning, I measured the piston to cylinder clearance its .0025, as you know it needs new rings because one is broken.

I cleaned and installed the exhaust manifold then matched it to the exhaust port, I removed a bunch of really ugly casting flaws in the exhaust tunnel and in the area of the intake and transfers.

All that's left to do on the top end is to drill the lube holes in the piston and prep the piston a little more, their are some sharp edges I don't like.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
On to the clutch, Mudbogger and I talked in the chat about his clutch problems it looks like this thing has some miss match parts in the area of the clutch rod.

It looks like part of a clutch update kit was used but the washer used was not right, it looks like a regular washer you get at a hardware store NOT the harden washer that comes with the kit or from Honda, the washer used also looks thicker (will measure the right and wrong one later to see)


Attachments:
DSC05083.JPG
DSC05083.JPG [ 75.42 KiB | Viewed 22695 times ]
DSC05084.JPG
DSC05084.JPG [ 69.81 KiB | Viewed 22695 times ]
DSC05085.JPG
DSC05085.JPG [ 69.55 KiB | Viewed 22695 times ]
File comment: The stamped washer is not precision by any means as you can see the uneven wearing.

No idea why this washer was used the least they could do was pound it flat before installing lol

Dsc05087.jpg
Dsc05087.jpg [ 54.37 KiB | Viewed 22695 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The clutch center hub one of the post was broken so their is a spring a bolt and a washer missing.


Attachments:
DSC05088.JPG
DSC05088.JPG [ 86.5 KiB | Viewed 22694 times ]
File comment: Springs measure...
DSC05089.JPG
DSC05089.JPG [ 59.64 KiB | Viewed 22694 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The clutch basket is not only worn but its cracked. :shock:


Attachments:
Dsc05091.jpg
Dsc05091.jpg [ 109.28 KiB | Viewed 22693 times ]
DSC05093.JPG
DSC05093.JPG [ 71.18 KiB | Viewed 22693 times ]
Dsc05094.jpg
Dsc05094.jpg [ 72.44 KiB | Viewed 22693 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Lock washer has seen its better days and will be replaced.

90445-KAE-000 WASHER, LOCK, 18MM


Attachments:
DSC05095.JPG
DSC05095.JPG [ 69.73 KiB | Viewed 22692 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The clutch plates are junk, they are aluminum, I always like the Honda OEM plates they are steel, I assume these aluminum plates are after market or off a motorcycle maybe? Can only assume the idea is to reduce rotating mass for faster revs?

Look at how the thickness varies as you measure around the circumference.


Attachments:
DSC05079.JPG
DSC05079.JPG [ 59.16 KiB | Viewed 22690 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The fibers look new and they all measure the same thickness and measure the same all the way around, looking at the numbers on the plates they are OEM ?


Attachments:
DSC05082.JPG
DSC05082.JPG [ 56.54 KiB | Viewed 22689 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Working my way to the rest of the bottom end, the cylinder nuts are all beat up they will be replaced...


Attachments:
DSC05098.JPG
DSC05098.JPG [ 46.67 KiB | Viewed 22692 times ]
DSC05100.JPG
DSC05100.JPG [ 45.88 KiB | Viewed 22692 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Bottom end has plenty of oil, its dirty, the big end of the rod feels tight.

More later.


Attachments:
DSC05103.JPG
DSC05103.JPG [ 89.06 KiB | Viewed 22691 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
So set of rings from Wiseco for what size piston Hoser 67?
head bolts ok or order them too?
1 WASHER
Top end gasket set
side case cover?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Hoser-I do not remember the Piston having that mark/broken ring on it-I looked it over pretty good in fact-that may have happened during shipping or me handling it here perhaps, I am almost positive that was not damaged inside the motor-I would have noticed it and posted it-in fact let me look at the 250r CSI thread-I know I pictured that piston in it-
Should we split the bottom end on this thing?
I didnt do anything to it except remove the clutch basket and the jug off it-nothing else-

opps my bad look at this picture in my 250r CSI thread DSC05050.JPG you;ll clearly see the damage to the piston Hoser has pictured-lol great to have those pictures huh?


Their is a matching mark on the cylinder wall where the broken ring and or the bulging aluminum on the piston was rubbing the cylinder wall, not shipping damage assembly damage...


Attachments:
DSC05036.JPG
DSC05036.JPG [ 54.32 KiB | Viewed 22607 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
So set of rings from Wiseco for what size piston Hoser 67?
head bolts ok or order them too?
1 WASHER
Top end gasket set
side case cover?


I am making up a list of parts needed I will list it in the first post of this thread, the rings will be shipped tonight from Odystable.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
LIST SO FAR-

Qty Part Number Description Price Total
1- 11340-HA2-670 COVER, R. CRANKCASE $180.87 $180.87
4- 94050-10000 NUT, FLANGE (10MM) $0.92 $3.68
6- 22321-KF0-770 PLATE, CLUTCH $11.05 $66.30
1- 90445-KAE-000 WASHER, LOCK (18MM) $3.62 $3.62
1- 12191-HA2-306 GASKET, CYLINDER $8.35 $8.35
1- 12254-KS7-881 GASKET, CYL HD $23.56 $23.56
6- 90443-107-000 NUT, CAP (8MM) $2.30 $13.80

SubTotal $300.18


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
So set of rings from Wiseco for what size piston Hoser 67?
head bolts ok or order them too?
1 WASHER
Top end gasket set
side case cover?


I am making up a list of parts needed I will list it in the first post of this thread, the rings will be shipped tonight from Odystable.


THANKS -holy shit that's great-THANKS ODYSTABLE for them, please let me know so I can reorder for you to replace.I thought I was being pro-active and these 2 guys(hoser and Odystable) are way ahead of me-LOL


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
No problem Mud, I will pm you the details.

Too bad these won't work, I have a chit-load of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ESELX%3AIT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
HMM, THE STOCK part number for these for the 250r is 22321-KFO-770 close huh?Mbaye I will check to see if they work, can you measure 1 perhaps for Hoser to compare?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ody_Stable wrote:
No problem Mud, I will pm you the details.

Too bad these won't work, I have a chit-load of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ESELX%3AIT


Can you still get the complete Honda gasket kit?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
You can get it according to Service Honda (the original # 061A0-HA2-000 is listed as discontinued):

http://www.servicehonda.com/parts.php?p ... ice=Submit

I will open one of the plates and take measurements. The application listed uses 2 of those plates and 5 of a different thickness.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
OK,

Clutch plate dims as follows:

Thickness: 0.0605" to 0.0610"

5.4715" O.D.
4.4195" I.D (bottom of teeth)
4.1065" I.D. (top of teeth)

28 teeth

I don't see the plate thickness anywhere in the service manual, disc yes, but not the plates.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
The plates you have only have 24 teeth........


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group