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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Had some time to put the bottom end together last night. Everything went smooth and installation was great. I am currently checking squish on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), it is at 0.069 inches which is alittle much( it should be 0.03456 according to my math) and I am open to options.

I have several questions;
does the bore effect the math on the squish-I have a 71.5mm bore in this jug(stock is 70mm)and my math is using a stock bore of 64.9mm
Pro's and con's of running the current 0.069 squish?
Pump gas ok with that squish?
The edge of the piston as well goes right to the very end of the bore, seems out of the norm to me as well--


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Had some time to put the bottom end together last night. Everything went smooth and installation was great. I am currently checking squish on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), it is at 0.069 inches which is alittle much( it should be 0.03456 according to my math) and I am open to options.

I have several questions;
does the bore effect the math on the squish-I have a 71.5mm bore in this jug(stock is 70mm)and my math is using a stock bore of 64.9mm
Pro's and con's of running the current 0.069 squish?
Pump gas ok with that squish?
The edge of the piston as well goes right to the very end of the bore, seems out of the norm to me as well--


How much material was removed from what parts, since you removed material and not added any I assume the squish is now closer (tighter) than it was before you started machining on the parts, most factory engines have huge amounts of squish clearance then you need to blueprint the Engine and redesign and modify the head to get the squish closer to what would be optimum for best performance.


Since you removed material from the cylinder and crankcase deck I suspect the piston is now closer to the top of the cylinder this is good, this will also bump the compression up, many ways to check your compression ratio by pouring oil in the spark plug hole with the piston at TDC (Top Dead Center) to see what the volume is, think adnoh already covered this in another post giving all the details?

If it was mine I would install the Engine in the bike with the complete intake and exhaust systems in place and check the compression see how close to normal it is, I would use a used head gasket in case the compression is way high and you need to remove the head to have the head machined, no use wasting a new gasket for this test, if the compression is ok then remove the used head gasket and install the new go riding and have fun :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Update.
On previous posting I had used a jug with a bore of 71.5 mm- I pulled that jug and went with the stock bore jug 67.50 mm which Speed chaser just milled flat for me. I put the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) back together with the cases milled by SPeed,check squish,was 0.043 which is good indeed! (needed .03489). Got everything ready, cleaned, prepped for install in the Tecate but performed air leak test. THE JUG IS LEAKING STILL!! I cannot believe it. It is leaking right were the case halfes met again, right on the actual seam, both front and rear of the jug. I do not get it. I torques it down to specs, did everything right. I just do not get it. I am frustrated beyond imagination currently with these cases. Any ideas? I checked to make sure the cases came together on the lines provided by Speed, the cases were flat, the gasket new, wtf???Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
After I put the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) together the jug still leaks.I tryed 2 jugs, it leaks right at the case halves where they met in the front of the jug and the rear. I put the case halves together and the lines Speed made on them lined right up. I checked the gasket after torquinbg the jug down and it still does not compress down in that area totally. I am at a loss for what I need to do. The cases are doweled so there alignment cannot be off, the lines again that speed put on top for this lined up perfectly.I am wondering if the cases have a pinhole leak in the area's in question.Got any ideas? I do have another set of cases that Speed checked and repaired for me that I am going to use.I'll have to order another set of gaskets, mabye crank bearings too if I can't get them out of these crappy cases. This motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is driving me nuts, really shows my inexperience in some aspects. Any input?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Could the dowels be bottoming out and holding the cases apart slightly? Meaning are the dowels to long? Or is the hole they slide into bugered up and not letting them seat all the way?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Dang I posted the same thing in mudds world before reading your post afast car. Sorry did want to be a copy cat.

Maybe time to move one into the other "H".


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
Dang I posted the same thing in mudds world before reading your post afast car. Sorry did want to be a copy cat.

Maybe time to move one into the other "H".


Guess I should have read this one first lmao oh well, keep the thoughts and ideas coming we need to solve this problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Changed out the cases last night. Bottom end is complete. Waiting on new base gaskets to install top end. I had it with those cases. I a$ going yto check the dowels to ensure they are ok as that's the only thing I can see that might be wrong with them.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I have come to the conclusion the dowels are not perfectly round. When I took them out of the cases I checked them both with the mic- both are not 100% round. Now remember when I cleaned the cases I had removed them both at that time. I think when I removed them the damage occured at this stage. When I put the cases halves back together the cases must have had just enough space due to the to cause the issues and not allow for perfectly flat surfaces.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Got the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) together tonight, and it finally did not leak! Leakdown test held 5 pounds for over 1/2 hr. Squish is 0.040 in compression I will have to check when I install it. This jug is at 67.5 mm which is stock OEM Wiseco Piston with ceramic coating on skirts.Thanks to Speedchaser and Hoser fo helping me out on this build as it got pretty crazy here for sure.I'll try to get the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) in the Tecate this weekend.
I still need to figure out the case issues though. After a long chat with SPEED THIS SUBJECT came up as to the cylinders themselves being "crowned" on the base side so when torqued it applies enough force for the gasket to seal.On my 2 jugs Speed milled them flat, and I was having issue with the gasket sealing in the middle of both jugs,mabye KING KX has/knows about these jugs in the 84-85 Tecate/KX line by chance? If they are crowned on the base side it would solve this issue for sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
I don't have any direct experience with the tecate Engine, but I don't recall any of the other kdx, kx engines having a crown on the base side of the cylinder. If I were checking this out I would get a machined straight edge and check the flatness of crankcase side (with all the case bolts torqued, crankshaft in etc.) check the base side of the cylinder for flatness. If they both check out OK, then install the cylinder with out a base gasket, install the head and lightly tighten the head bolts. Run a .0015 feeler gauge between the cylinder and crankcase and see how warped the surface is under torque and which surface is actually causing the issue.
Don't use the acorn nuts for the head bolts (for testing) - maybe one is bottoming in the acorn part before it torques down on the cylinder??


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Thanks for the posting King KX. Speed as well mentioned the same issue as well on the phone. I went into the garage too look at a spare stock motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) that is complete I had. The jug studs are not even showing through the nuts. On this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) I an currently building they stick through the nuts 3-4 threads . This might be the reason ! Pictures to following later. I will have to check to see if the jug is not getting proper torque due to the bolts bottoming out on the studs. The cases are used off Ebay in fact. I will check on my other motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) to see if in fact the bolts on it have room to be torqued on the stud or not. Great thoughts fellas!!!!


Attachments:
File comment: motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) that has the jug leaking, see the threads -this is the front stud on the cylinder, see the threads?
101.jpg
101.jpg [ 526.03 KiB | Viewed 13378 times ]
File comment: both jug bolts, see the threads?
104.jpg
104.jpg [ 488.79 KiB | Viewed 13378 times ]
File comment: Spare all stock OEM motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), see how the threads are not even showing?
103.jpg
103.jpg [ 456.88 KiB | Viewed 13378 times ]
File comment: Another look at the spare motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), threads not showing
102.jpg
102.jpg [ 485.72 KiB | Viewed 13378 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) completed, ready for install.I wanted to show you guys the flywheel I installed. I had it redone by a fella off the 3 wheeler forums, he re-epoxies the magnets in inside the flywheel for us Tecate guys, they are known to loosen up and break off.He does a really nice job for 45 bucks, great guy.I can ask if you need to have this process done to other flywheels.


Attachments:
File comment: All freshened up and ready for install.
075.jpg
075.jpg [ 637.01 KiB | Viewed 13377 times ]
File comment: This is how the stator looked when side case removed, nice huh? love the added bolt in there huh? that's the bolt hole that Speed fixed for me on these cases.
036.jpg
036.jpg [ 919.88 KiB | Viewed 13377 times ]
100.jpg
100.jpg [ 633.42 KiB | Viewed 13377 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Case halves before Speed fixed it and other assorted documentation of the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) being used currently:


Attachments:
File comment: After stator removal-see the bad holes?
037.jpg
037.jpg [ 746.84 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: Here is a dowel I took out of the cases-I did some of the damage taking it out, but not all of it.
080.jpg
080.jpg [ 595.68 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: see the issues with the cases mating? dowel issues for sure.This was before Speed got them.
096.jpg
096.jpg [ 434.2 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: same case, back side of the jug surfaces
093.jpg
093.jpg [ 511.29 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: ring gaps on current jug being used
083.jpg
083.jpg [ 620.55 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: ring gap bottom of jug currently in use
081.jpg
081.jpg [ 681.79 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
File comment: cases before SPEEDCHASER got them, bad huh?
089.jpg
089.jpg [ 507.3 KiB | Viewed 13376 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:28 pm
Posts: 9
Mudbogger wrote:
Well, did it again.Saw this on the 3 wheeler forums and picked it up, was right here in NJ, IT IS COMPLETE BUT YOU KNOW ME! ripped the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) right out even though it was "a fesh rebuild" LOL right! I first tryed some simple tests to see what I was working with.
Air leak test failed miserably,pictures will tell that story
Compression test too failed, very low. OK CSI again.
Took the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out, noticed immediately that 1 stud on the head was not correctly installed(see picture)
Intake was coated with RTV on external side(see picture) and we all know what that hides.
Side cover sprocket side is damaged, welded, and in poor shape.Gasket leaking as well.
Drain plug has wrong washer, and the bolt itself is wrong 1
Carb is wrong make, model, and is junk.
Some skillbilly welded the gear shift lever to the shaft-it is junk.
Looking into the exhaust side piston looks like an airport runway-skid marks,scorns,toast.
Here is some pictures:


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