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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Well, did it again.Saw this on the 3 wheeler forums and picked it up, was right here in NJ, IT IS COMPLETE BUT YOU KNOW ME! ripped the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) right out even though it was "a fesh rebuild" LOL right! I first tryed some simple tests to see what I was working with.
Air leak test failed miserably,pictures will tell that story
Compression test too failed, very low. OK CSI again.
Took the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out, noticed immediately that 1 stud on the head was not correctly installed(see picture)
Intake was coated with RTV on external side(see picture) and we all know what that hides.
Side cover sprocket side is damaged, welded, and in poor shape.Gasket leaking as well.
Drain plug has wrong washer, and the bolt itself is wrong 1
Carb is wrong make, model, and is junk.
Some skillbilly welded the gear shift lever to the shaft-it is junk.
Looking into the exhaust side piston looks like an airport runway-skid marks,scorns,toast.
Here is some pictures:


Attachments:
File comment: motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) on the bench
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File comment: See the low stud?
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File comment: LOL, no wonder it failed the air leak test huh?
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File comment: Outside on the intake, see the peeled back section?
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File comment: Sprocket side case, mounts for stock OEM case savers are gone-
frame 008.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1040
Location: hole above ground
another nice Cow moooo

you just can not leave them alone can you :-)

what the rest of the bike look like



SpeedChaser :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Ha, you know what I did not take any of the complete ride! OR if I did I cannot locate them on the laptop.Ripped into the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) already.When I took the head off I noticed a piece of ring right on top of the piston! Here is some pictures of the ride-it had no front brake system, and the wheel bearings needed replacement.Controls as well were missing.Here is some pictures after installation of:
Front brake system
Radiator with hoses
Front rad guard
new wheel bearings and seals


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2nd tecate 001.jpg
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2nd tecate 003.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) CSI:
First and foremost-Hoser has said this TIME AND TIME again-why do people fix things they can't? skillbilly who worked on this Tecate WELDED THE SHIFTER LEVER to the shaft!!! WHY? WHY? WTF? Stupid!!
Ok, took the head off first.As mentioned 1 stud is not installed properly in the jug(see pictires).I immediately noticed a very small piece of metal sitting on the top of the piston.After examination it is determined to be a piece of an old ring-did some damage to the head and the top of the piston(see pictures) and the jug walls are in poor shape indeed.The side case sprocket side is trashed good, it was been welded in several spots.Piston wrist pin was so cooked I had to use a ball pean hammer to get it out, and the top of the rod is way worn.Piston is junk-rod bearing was excessive play as well as the rod.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Jug studs had a lot of rust around them,it may have had the water pump seals leaking or it was not torqued down properly.Reeds are toast, when I removed the reed cage and intake there was poor adhesion with the gaskets, probably leaking here as well.Rod bearings are bad, did the simple but proven rod bearing test and it is clunking dam good!Old owner told me there was an issue with the clutch, the clutch rod after splitting the cases was totally wiped out, must have gotten hotter them hell or somebody used 1 from another motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? ))(see pictures). Also seems the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) had a house guest at some point after removal of the stator I found a nest! All the threads on the stator side case are stripped, all wrong bolts,nuts as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Top end jug bolts were hand tight-no torque values here at all.Water pump impeller seal is bad,was weeping into the bottom end.Split the cases and the dowels are crushed. Rod bearings were rusted on the crank, bottom end trans gears are in poor shape as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Top end jug bolts were hand tight-no torque values here at all.Water pump impeller seal is bad,was weeping into the bottom end.Split the cases and the dowels are crushed. Rod bearings were rusted on the crank, bottom end trans gears are in poor shape as well.



Wow looks like a parts Engine?

Post more pics of the cylinder walls do I see scuffing?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Pictures of the jug


Attachments:
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 006.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 007.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 011.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
1 thing I noticed in the jug, on the bottom picture it seems to me the jug has been resleeved,see the excess of what appears to be some form of adhesive in the coolant passages? The piston has pretty bad scratches on it from god knows what.The piston measured:
Top-69.53mm
middle-69.89mm
bottom-70.10mm
wristpin was 18.03mm

Jug measured 69.77 top by head
measured 69.13 bottom

I am awaiting another manual to check some measurements on the shift forks, shift shafts,crank, rod,etc.Pictures of the piston


Attachments:
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 003.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 004.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 005.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Here is a great example of why you need to get the right gaskets for your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )).Don't buy cheap aftermarket garbage, you need to watch and examine every single gasket when buying a "set". Look at the pictures I will post of my Tecate head.The first is the head with gasket mounted, look at the middle hole, that's a coolant passage.Now look at the second pic, see the amount of gasket material that is covering the passage? The restriction is significant almost 1/2 of the passage is blocked and that is just on 1 of the 4 holes in the head.


Attachments:
File comment: middle hole, keep this in mind
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 012.jpg
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 012.jpg [ 706.72 KiB | Viewed 18109 times ]
File comment: see the amount of restriction due to a poorly made gasket?
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 013.jpg
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 013.jpg [ 642.7 KiB | Viewed 18109 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
New parts just came in from Cheapcycleparts.com
aLL NEW LOWER END EVERYTHING!!


Attachments:
File comment: Just some of them
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 015.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Also notice the piston has none and I mean NO prep DONE TO IT ALL, THE ENDGES OF THE SKIRTS ARE SHARP as a knife, this looks like out of the box and right into the motor-not good!


Attachments:
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 005.jpg
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 005.jpg [ 547.59 KiB | Viewed 18109 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
This Tecate has a mod done to it prior to my purchase, the stock rear shock has been replaced with a YAMAHA banshee rear shock, the mod is very easy, just removal of a bushing, a smaller bolt and nut, and that's is basicly it.I rebuilt the stock OEM shock today, changed oil and all just like my first Tecate.I'll recharge at a local bike shop and leave for a spare.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
More parts arrived today as well:


Attachments:
2nd tecate new OEM parts 001.jpg
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2nd tecate new OEM parts 002.jpg
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2nd tecate new OEM parts 003.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Case has some damage on it, I wonder how it was caused?see by where the rod rotates on top dead center?


Attachments:
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 017.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 018.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Spare shift lever,but the end is bent slightly- 1 that was in the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is trashed due to some skill billy welding the gear shift lever to the end of it-


Attachments:
2nd tecate motor csi pictures 020.jpg
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2nd tecate motor csi pictures 021.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
HOSER, JUG, HEAD, PISTON all went out to you today.
New clutch cable came in today.Mic'd all the internals, the clutch springs are shot-well under service limits-clutch plates are fine as well as the friction plates-shifter fork guide pins are .002MM below limits, will this cause gear's to pop out at all? or just looseness in the gears when shifting?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Mud, you may ask around the KX board about the side case casings fracturing and leaking. Ive seen one or two leaking in the arrowed area. As a preventive measure you can fill these with epoxy. The case get pretty thin there. Why they cast them that way who knows. Run by the KX guys and ask "H" about it.


Attachments:
kx case.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Cool, thanks Adnoh!
I assembled the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), and I air leak tested it.The jug is leaking all over the place-front, rear,everywhere! I went into CSI mode-
1-is the head bad?
2-is the cases flat?
3-gaskets wrong, measurements?
4-mabye I just torqued the bolts wrong amount?
5-need more brains?

I first checked the head.Now on these Kawasaki jugs I send them to a company called US CHROME in WIsconsin. When they re-plate them, they sell you a 70mm Wiseco piston kit and they set the ring gaps and piston wall clearances with the piston you get-I called them and checked to see if when a client sends them a jug they check it for see the mating surfaces are flat.I could not speak to a tech as they were busy, but was informed the do prior to re-plating. So, if this is true then that rules out the jug being warped.

Gaskets-I had 3 gasket seats sets here.MOOSE-VESRAH and OEM. I measured all of the base jug gaskets.All were .02mm which was amazing to me as I measured the other gaskets in the seats and there was varying sizes per each gasket.HMMM. I did try to use all 3 gaskets on the jug,each time it leaked in the same areas.I then tryed to use Hondabond on the lower surface(case side) and torqued, leaked still.So I have to go on with the CSI.

Torque values was 25 ft per manual.I double checked them, replacd the batteries even in my wrench, it is 25 ft pounds with my 2nd wrench.

Need more brains-100% CORRECT!

Now we come to the cases.A quick look at them it appears they sit flat.I had to use 2 different case halves on this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) due to damage on 1 of them.I have a 85 motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), the case halves are supposed to be the same tolerances between 84 motors and 85 motors,there is no written documentation I can find to say otherwise, manual does not state not to use them together-or any tolerance issues if doing so.I took the jug off, and visually ran a razor balde on the right side case going toward the left side.When it came to where the cases mate, it stopped.OH OH.
WTF? I ran the razor blade the opposite way from left to right-it dropped down to the right case where they meet.So I can assume the cases are not mated properly.Now why?

I installed new dowels in the cases prior to mating them.I inspected each and every hole to make sure there was no ob longing in the holes especially where the dowel pins are, which were all fine.Did I mic them-no.Can should I? mabye I should now.I'll check the manual and see if they even list a tolerance.I lapped the cases and checked with feeler guage and straight edge on all the surfaces prior to mating-they all were flat.
What I think I did wrong was I should have mated the cases toghether and lapped them at the jug surface without the internals in there.It appears to be a issue with the cases at this stage.I am going to take the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) apart again, and check the surfaces with a straight edge at the base of the jug.I will lap them together without the internals in thereto see if indeed they are not flat and not perfectly matched.


Attachments:
File comment: see the area where the 2 cases meet?
spare motor 003.jpg
spare motor 003.jpg [ 688.74 KiB | Viewed 18060 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:07 am 
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Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I'll tell you something, you never truly understand these motors until you rebuild 1.I now understand what Hoser goes through on them.Here is some more pictures of the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )).It got all new clutch spring, friction plates,bearings, everything on the bottom end was replaced.I had 1 side case that some skill billy used a wiz wheel on to remove the old gasekt, after I lapped the hell out of it it still had a low spot-I cannot for any reason tell you to now use 1 of these things!!HAD TO REPLACE THE KICKER GEARS, THE ORIGINAL 1 WAS TRASHED!!


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spare motor 005.jpg
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spare motor 006.jpg
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File comment: This is after 2 hrs of lapping it, still low!!
spare motor 007.jpg
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File comment: OEM BABY!
spare motor 010.jpg
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spare motor 011.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
MORE"


Attachments:
File comment: NEW CLUTCH PLATES, FRICTION AS WELL
spare motor 004.jpg
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File comment: NEW REEDS
spare motor 009.jpg
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File comment: See the damage/ I replaced all of them.
spare motor 018.jpg
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File comment: I got the flywheel magnets epoxied in from a guy on the 3 wheeler boards, does a nice job for 45 bucks!
spare motor 013.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I installed the crank in this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) that Speedchaser rebuilt for me-
Also the manifold is produced by Speedchaser as well---


Attachments:
spare motor 014.jpg
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spare motor 015.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1040
Location: hole above ground
Mudbogger wrote:

What I think I did wrong was I should have mated the cases toghether and lapped them at the jug surface without the internals in there.It appears to be a issue with the cases at this stage.I am going to take the Engine apart again, and check the surfaces with a straight edge at the base of the jug.I will lap them together without the internals in thereto see if indeed they are not flat and not perfectly matched.



yes you need to do that

what I found when using to different case half's not assembled by the factory is that they are Hard
new casted ones are still in the soft stage of it life being a new casting
they will mate together very easy with the tork of the bolts .
But after they sit for a year or more they harden up . They call this shelf Harding .
So you need to lap the case half side surfaces and then assemble then lap the jug mating surface and then the base of the jug it self

the next point is that when the new soft casting they will flex and mate together after that they are a matched set
now that you have to different side the are not matched any more

I hope this helps

speed


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Took the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) apart, them re assembled the cases and lapped them.They were not flat.RE-installed the crank and internals,will wait a spell and finish it up.I do not have the means to lap the base of the jug, any ideas? I do it manually with paper, water and the end of my glass table.It would be very hard to lap it flat doing it in the fashion I usually do.I appreciate the help Speedchaser.Pictures to come.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1040
Location: hole above ground
Mudbogger wrote:
Took the Engine apart, them re assembled the cases and lapped them.They were not flat.RE-installed the crank and internals,will wait a spell and finish it up.I do not have the means to lap the base of the jug, any ideas? I do it manually with paper, water and the end of my glass table.It would be very hard to lap it flat doing it in the fashion I usually do.I appreciate the help Speedchaser.Pictures to come.



use a flat piece of steel or file and rap it with you fine sand paper and work your way around the bore and just knock down the high spots

speed


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