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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:04 am 
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Hello all! Long time listener, first time caller.

I have a 1981 FL250. I have owned it for about 3 years and it has been working great. This is a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) bike, no points here. The bike is completely stock.

My FL250 has always started on the second pull - choke on, 1/4 throttle as I pull and all is well. Last weekend it started acting up and I am lost on what to check next.

I went to Pismo Beach (Oceano Dunes), pulled the bike out of the trailer and it started right up. I ran it for about 10 minutes and that was the last time it worked as expected. The bike is very hard to start now. I have gotten it started twice since my return home and once it starts it runs great. I have replaced the spark plug, cleaned the air filter, and cleaned the carb. I am getting spark (verified by holding the plug against the head and visually verifying spark). I am also getting fuel (it has ran twice since I have returned from Pismo and I have removed the fuel hose inlet and fuel is flowing).

My FL250 is gravity fed by a 5 gallon tank. I have the stock gas tank on the bike but I do not use it.

I am not an Engine guy and I am lost on what to do next. I know there is a key on the flywheel that controls timing and that the key can get sheared off. If the key was sheared off, would the bike ever start? I also know the stator can go bad, but if it was bad would there still be spark? I have a newish CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) box (installed by previous owner) but was under the impression the bike wouldn't even try to turn over if the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) was bad. The exhaust pipe does have two small cracks right by the exhaust port..but I think they have always been there; could this cause hard start/no start?

Can I get your opinions on what to do next? I love my little FL250 but I don't know where to go from here.

I am located in Southern California.

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:21 am 
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Probably a good idea to start with the basics. I'd do a compression test and leak down test to start with. If your compression is good, and no leaks, then look at the ignition system. Make sure plug is gap is right, wires are in good condition, and check the stator coils. If you broke the key, I don't think you'd get it to start. I did that once, and i got nothing, but i've learned over the years that nothing is impossible. You could check that, but you will need special tool to pull of the magneto. You might be 'lucky' and just have poor compression, and need to lightly hone the cylinder and put some new rings in. You can download a copy of the repair book from multiple sources if you do a search.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:10 pm 
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I need to pull the flywheel to check the key and inspect the stator correct? Do I need to pull the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out of the bike to do this?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
I need to pull the flywheel to check the key and inspect the stator correct? Do I need to pull the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out of the bike to do this?


My opinion here is that the flywheel key is good. You would get probably get nothing. It is very uncommon for that to happen and since you have spark I would say it is good. That would be the last thing I would monkey with right now. Like was stated above -- compression test first, then pressure/vacuum test. My question is what does the sparkplug look like ?? Are you flooding it ?? Is that why I won't start ??


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:21 pm 
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The old plug looked fine from what I can tell. I pulled the new one to check the gap and it looked wet. I don't believe I am flooding it as I have been doing the same start procedure for years. I did clean the carb so maybe I have my air/fuel screw or idle screw out of wack.

What is a good starting point for the carb screws? 3 turns out on each?

I'm going to buy a compression tester and lesbian tester and get those readings before tearing anything else apart.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:21 pm 
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Leak down tester. Not lesbian tester. Stupid phone lol


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
Leak down tester. Not lesbian tester. Stupid phone lol


Hey what ever you like :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
The old plug looked fine from what I can tell. I pulled the new one to check the gap and it looked wet. I don't believe I am flooding it as I have been doing the same start procedure for years. I did clean the carb so maybe I have my air/fuel screw or idle screw out of wack.

What is a good starting point for the carb screws? 3 turns out on each?

I'm going to buy a compression tester and lesbian tester and get those readings before tearing anything else apart.


Well this may be your issue.
Standard setting is usually 1.5 turns out on idle and air screw.
What is your float setting ?? Clean fuel filter ??
Do the compression test.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:51 pm 
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What should compression be? To verify - I should disconnect the spark plug wire, connect the compression tester, hold the throttle wide open and pull for 10 seconds and that is the reading?

For leakdown I should see 15% or less drop in PSI?

Thank you for your help!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:55 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Kevin8520 wrote:
The old plug looked fine from what I can tell. I pulled the new one to check the gap and it looked wet. I don't believe I am flooding it as I have been doing the same start procedure for years. I did clean the carb so maybe I have my air/fuel screw or idle screw out of wack.

What is a good starting point for the carb screws? 3 turns out on each?

I'm going to buy a compression tester and lesbian tester and get those readings before tearing anything else apart.


Well this may be your issue.
Standard setting is usually 1.5 turns out on idle and air screw.
What is your float setting ?? Clean fuel filter ??
Do the compression test.


Fuel filter is clean and my needle is set at the second clip from the top I believe but I need to verify that.

Can fuel mix cause this? I am running on a fresh tank of fuel mixed 32:1. Maybe I have bad fuel...unlikely though as it's name brand.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
What should compression be? To verify - I should disconnect the spark plug wire, connect the compression tester, hold the throttle wide open and pull for 10 seconds and that is the reading?

For leakdown I should see 15% or less drop in PSI?

Thank you for your help!


Compression test is done like you said above but you don't need to pull for 10sec. Once the needle don't go up anymore then that's what you got.
The leak down test is another test all together different. You pull the exhaust pipe, plug the port with a plate and rubber seal. Then pull the carb and plug the hole with something like a plastic pipe end cap that fits the carb hole. Then you pressure up the Engine to about 7 to 10psi (MAX to prevent you from blowing the seals out). If it don't hold pressure for half hour min then I don't install my Engine. I find the leak. The plate you use to plug the exhaust has two fittings on it. One for a low pressure gauge and one for a shrader valve so you can add the air pressure. One thing some people forget to do if the Engine is sitting on the bench is to plug the vacuum port for the fuel pump. It wont hold nothing if that hole is open LOL.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:09 pm 
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I can find something to plug the carb inlet. Is the plate for the exhaust something I need to fab up or does something already exist I can purchase?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
I can find something to plug the carb inlet. Is the plate for the exhaust something I need to fab up or does something already exist I can purchase?


You will have to fab it up.
Manual says Engine compression is 130psi.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:19 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
This is what mine looks like. Its an old picture. In it you can see that I am doing the vacuum test using a suction pump that is usually used to put oil in a rear end. Also needed is a check valve. Its that brass thing in the line. When you do these tests the piston must be in the down position to expose the ports.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Here is another pic where I used the intake port to do the tests. It doesn't matter which port you use.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:46 pm 
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That is a very cool setup. I am jealous :)

I am not an Engine guy and what little I do know is on 4 strokes. When we do a leakdown test on a car or a small 4 stroke we would use a leakdown detector tool like I have attached. We remove the spark plug, place the cylinder at top dead center, and inject air via the tool into the spark plug hole. Is the process different on a two stroke? Sorry for the dumb question of the day. This is the only two stroke I own haha :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
That is a very cool setup. I am jealous :)

I am not an Engine guy and what little I do know is on 4 strokes. When we do a leakdown test on a car or a small 4 stroke we would use a leakdown detector tool like I have attached. We remove the spark plug, place the cylinder at top dead center, and inject air via the tool into the spark plug hole. Is the process different on a two stroke? Sorry for the dumb question of the day. This is the only two stroke I own haha :)


Yes it is different.
On a two stroke you test the whole Engine for leaks.
On a 4 stroke you test the combustion chamber only for leaks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Kevin8520 wrote:
That is a very cool setup. I am jealous :)

I am not an Engine guy and what little I do know is on 4 strokes. When we do a leakdown test on a car or a small 4 stroke we would use a leakdown detector tool like I have attached. We remove the spark plug, place the cylinder at top dead center, and inject air via the tool into the spark plug hole. Is the process different on a two stroke? Sorry for the dumb question of the day. This is the only two stroke I own haha :)


Yes it is different.
On a two stroke you test the whole Engine for leaks.
On a 4 stroke you test the combustion chamber only for leaks.


Thank you. I will start with the compression test and resetting the carb and update from there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sounds like you have a plan. Sorry to be getting back late, I work at nights and sleep during the day, so i'm just getting back up at this point. You should check all those things, and work on checking them off in the order we suggested. In reality, there could be any number of problems, but you need to know where you stand on the basics before you can start with the odd ball things.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Oh, i forgot, you can check the compression with the Engine in, but doing a leak down is a lot easier with the Engine out. You can get it done in the buggie, but if you have a leak, it will be really hard to find where it is with the Engine in. You can cross that bridge when you get to it. Do yourself a favor, and just order a clutch remover and stator puller now so that when you need them you have them. If you have a stock clutch, and you have never removed it, it might help to get a tap to clean up the threads. You will probably need an impact to remove it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:39 pm 
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Will do and I will report back with an update!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:33 pm 
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Update: I believe I have a carb issue and not a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) issue.

I took the carb off and cleaned it...again. I set the air and idle screws at 1.5 turns out. With the air filter OFF it runs great and even idles (it never would idle before). As soon as I install the air filter, I can not start it. What adjustment do I need to make to correct this? Also if it matters I am currently running the air filter dry for testing. I have not yet oiled it. Does this make a difference?

Second, I am leaking oil from the exhaust pipe flange. I will replace that flange asap, but before I do, am I okay to run it with that oil leak?

Last, since it runs fine once it is started does this means my CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), flywheel key, and compression are ok?

Thank you all again :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:35 pm 
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Here it is running. Does it sound correct? I know it is hard to tell from a video.



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kevin8520 wrote:
Update: I believe I have a carb issue and not a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) issue.

I took the carb off and cleaned it...again. I set the air and idle screws at 1.5 turns out. With the air filter OFF it runs great and even idles (it never would idle before). As soon as I install the air filter, I can not start it. What adjustment do I need to make to correct this? Also if it matters I am currently running the air filter dry for testing. I have not yet oiled it. Does this make a difference?

Second, I am leaking oil from the exhaust pipe flange. I will replace that flange asap, but before I do, am I okay to run it with that oil leak?

Last, since it runs fine once it is started does this means my CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), flywheel key, and compression are ok?

Thank you all again :)


Lets take this one at a time:
1) As soon as I install the air filter, I can not start it ------ that tells me your compression is low and it don't matter if you oil the filter or not right now.
2) I am leaking oil from the exhaust pipe flange. I will replace that flange asap ----- some parts a very hard to find now after all these years.
3) am I okay to run it with that oil leak? ----- almost everyone's flange to pipe leaks and we all try to seal it with high temp silicone.
4) since it runs fine once it is started does this means my CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), flywheel key, and compression are ok? ----- CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) is ok, flywheel key is ok, compression is not in my opinion since you can't start it without removing the air filter -- just my opinion so do a compression test.
5) I listened to that video and it don't say much, but you did try to rev it once and it sounded flat. Possible your pilot jet may be wrong or air screw setting is off. Hard to tell but you need a tach to set the correct pilot jet because you can't hear a couple of hundred rpm change on any two smoke. See pic.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:00 am 
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Great information. I ordered a compression gauge and it should be here in a few days. I couldn't buy one here today due to the 4th of July. I will report back with the compression test results before going any further.


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