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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:48 am 
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Posts: 8
Hello everyone! I recently got my hands on a 83’ FL250 and have been rebuilding it from basically the frame up. Pretty much replaced everything with new or slightly new OEM parts. Also added the DG nickleplated racing pipe as well to it. Anyway, I’m having trouble getting it started. I have compression and spark. And also have the carb adjusted to the correct specs. Checked all the lines and everything seems to be moving in the right direction. I have gotten it to idle for half a second a die a couple times, but never consistent. I tried putting premium gas in it as well (I read on here that some people use that) with a 25:1 mixture has to oil. It has been backfiring often. First couple times it backfired the exhaust off lol. But ever since the first couple times it’s been backfiring through the carb and I can’t figure out why. Checked to make sure the timing was correct and everything looked the way it was supposed to.

I guess I’m just stumped and tired of pulling the pull cord at this point lol. If anyone has any input or something for me to try please feel free to let me know, thank you!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:13 am 
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It’s been awhile since I’ve tinkered with a fl250, but I do have two immediate thoughts.

1. Do you still have the original exhaust pipe? If so try it with the original pipe to eliminate that as a variable. Most likely that has nothing to do with your problem, but 2stroke exhaust design is critical to the Engine running properly, maybe your aftermarket one isn’t quite right.

2. Something is wrong with the ignition. I never had a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) model, but I believe there is some adjustment, if the timing is off it would still spark, but at the wrong time and it won’t run correctly. You need a manual with the specifics of how to adjust the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) for proper timing.

These are just two ideas, I could be completely off base, but if you have spark, compression (make sure it is at the proper level compression per the manual) and fuel it’s probably a timing issue. Lastly, what happens if you give it a shot of starter fluid. Does it start then? If yes, then timing probably isn’t the problem. Let us know what happens and we might be able to give you some more better advise.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:46 pm 
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Hotdog wrote:
It’s been awhile since I’ve tinkered with a fl250, but I do have two immediate thoughts.

1. Do you still have the original exhaust pipe? If so try it with the original pipe to eliminate that as a variable. Most likely that has nothing to do with your problem, but 2stroke exhaust design is critical to the Engine running properly, maybe your aftermarket one isn’t quite right.

2. Something is wrong with the ignition. I never had a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) model, but I believe there is some adjustment, if the timing is off it would still spark, but at the wrong time and it won’t run correctly. You need a manual with the specifics of how to adjust the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) for proper timing.

These are just two ideas, I could be completely off base, but if you have spark, compression (make sure it is at the proper level compression per the manual) and fuel it’s probably a timing issue. Lastly, what happens if you give it a shot of starter fluid. Does it start then? If yes, then timing probably isn’t the problem. Let us know what happens and we might be able to give you some more better advise.

Good luck!


Thank you for the help! I tried using the old one but it was rusted completely from being left outside for so long. The dg one is supposed to be specific for the FL250 so I hope it’s not the issue!

I was curious if the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) would be the issue but I didn’t know there was an adjustment that you could make to it, I’ll definitely have to give that a try and see if that makes a difference! I have tried starter fluid and all it doesn’t is create a backfire from the carb or it’ll shoot out the air intake.

I will try checking the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) and get back to you on the progress this weekend or early next week. Hopefully I bring back some good news lol, thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:54 am 
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I’m going from memory, and my fl250 was a points model. I was hoping someone else could chime in on the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), but I guess not. You’ll need a manual to see if it’s out of adjustment, that’s my best guess. I could be completely wrong, but I think there is some adjusting/lining up that has to be done, perhaps it’s vibrated out of place over the years.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I don't know how helpful I can be here because I'm NOT an electron mechanic LOL.
However I will attach a pdf manual.
On the second last page is a wiring diagram for the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) but it does fire so nothing wrong here.
It's clearly an out of time issue.
Check the trigger coil, flywheel, make sure timing marks line up.
My money says timing marks not set right.
CO

Note: Site won't allow me to attach pdf because file to big. So you will have to go here to download a free manual: https://oddatv.com/fl250-fl350-factory-manuals/
They sell parts too.
CO


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:58 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
I don't know how helpful I can be here because I'm NOT an electron mechanic LOL.
However I will attach a pdf manual.
On the second last page is a wiring diagram for the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) but it does fire so nothing wrong here.
It's clearly an out of time issue.
Check the trigger coil, flywheel, make sure timing marks line up.
My money says timing marks not set right.
CO

Note: Site won't allow me to attach pdf because file to big. So you will have to go here to download a free manual: https://oddatv.com/fl250-fl350-factory-manuals/
They sell parts too.
CO


Thank you! I know it’s CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), but I never knew it could be adjusted. That’s new information for me. But by the looks of it I have the marks set right, but I’m going to take the flywheel off and check everything out again. I will keep you all updated, thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1432
Location: Norco, CA
it may just be a carb adjustment in the idle circuit, when you get it started are you able to keep it running using the throttle? are you using the choke?
I have found through the years that different engines like to start different ways, one thing in common, bring the Engine to TDC (Top Dead Center) then just past so you can get it spinning good before coming back up on the compression cycle.
I have had engines that like to start on the choke and will run with the choke until warmed up, others that start on the choke when cold and immediately turn off the choke and continue to warm up using the throttle, some like the choke on for a couple of kicks, if it doesn't start then turn the choke off and start, others that only need the choke when the Engine is cold and cold out side. I'd say that a properly tuned machine will always act the same but I'm the sort that will sacrifice wrenching time for riding time :)
if it works and not burning up pistons and beats your buddy, why mess with it. I always ran my kids machines a little on the rich side.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1432
Location: Norco, CA
it may just be a carb adjustment in the idle circuit, when you get it started are you able to keep it running using the throttle? are you using the choke?
I have found through the years that different engines like to start different ways, one thing in common, bring the Engine to TDC (Top Dead Center) then just past so you can get it spinning good before coming back up on the compression cycle.
I have had engines that like to start on the choke and will run with the choke until warmed up, others that start on the choke when cold and immediately turn off the choke and continue to warm up using the throttle, some like the choke on for a couple of kicks, if it doesn't start then turn the choke off and start, others that only need the choke when the Engine is cold and cold out side. I'd say that a properly tuned machine will always act the same but I'm the sort that will sacrifice wrenching time for riding time :)
if it works and not burning up pistons and beats your buddy, why mess with it. I always ran my kids machines a little on the rich side.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Deploymccoy wrote:
Thank you! I know it’s CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), but I never knew it could be adjusted. That’s new information for me. But by the looks of it I have the marks set right, but I’m going to take the flywheel off and check everything out again. I will keep you all updated, thank you!


CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) can NOT be adjusted. They're fixed.
But timing can be adjusted if the trigger coil is moved. That's dangerous though unless you know what you are doing.
Right now my money says the timing marks are not aligned or the flywheel key is sheared.
Kuma has good points here too. Are you sure your pilot jet is clean ??
CO

Edit: Is this a factory CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) oddy or did someone scab on a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) aftermarket unit ??
CO


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Use the info below to verify the year of your oddy.
The later model years were CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition).
I have to check when CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) was implemented.

Honda FL250 serial numbers:
1977 FL250 1000001-1011921
1978 FL250 1100001-1112345
1979 FL250 2000001-2012620
1980 TB04 2000001-2006315
1981 TB04 BC400001-BC406324
1982 TB04 CC500001-CC514700
1983 TB04 DC600001-DC617555
1984 TB04 EC700051-EC703225

Edit: CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) came out in 1981.
CO


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:34 am
Posts: 8
Kuma wrote:
it may just be a carb adjustment in the idle circuit, when you get it started are you able to keep it running using the throttle? are you using the choke?
I have found through the years that different engines like to start different ways, one thing in common, bring the Engine to TDC (Top Dead Center) (Top Dead Center) then just past so you can get it spinning good before coming back up on the compression cycle.
I have had engines that like to start on the choke and will run with the choke until warmed up, others that start on the choke when cold and immediately turn off the choke and continue to warm up using the throttle, some like the choke on for a couple of kicks, if it doesn't start then turn the choke off and start, others that only need the choke when the Engine is cold and cold out side. I'd say that a properly tuned machine will always act the same but I'm the sort that will sacrifice wrenching time for riding time :)
if it works and not burning up pistons and beats your buddy, why mess with it. I always ran my kids machines a little on the rich side.


It doesn’t start and idle I can just hear it roll over and bog for a half second. But it doesn’t do it every time. I’ll pull it 100 times and it’s does it maybe 4. I’ll give the TDC (Top Dead Center) a try too and see if that does anything. Carb is adjusted and everything properly. It’s just so difficult to figure out what it wants to start lol. And who really want to pull on that thing 100 times trying to figure it out! My right arm will be very strong after this is over with LOL


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:59 am 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Deploymccoy wrote:
Thank you! I know it’s CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), but I never knew it could be adjusted. That’s new information for me. But by the looks of it I have the marks set right, but I’m going to take the flywheel off and check everything out again. I will keep you all updated, thank you!


CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) can NOT be adjusted. They're fixed.
But timing can be adjusted if the trigger coil is moved. That's dangerous though unless you know what you are doing.
Right now my money says the timing marks are not aligned or the flywheel key is sheared.
Kuma has good points here too. Are you sure your pilot jet is clean ??
CO

Edit: Is this a factory CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) oddy or did someone scab on a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) aftermarket unit ??
CO


Well I’m glad you said that or I would of been messing with the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) trying to figure that out lol. I bought a OEM CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) off eBay That was in excellent condition. I can’t remember if it was used or new but it was just the plate.

I’ll check the timing marks and see if that’s it, but I’m pretty sure I liked them up correctly. I know there is the T mark and then 2 vertical lines somewhere else on the flywheel that look like timing marks too. Are these vertical ones for something different?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Below is a pic of a FL350 flywheel.
You will see that it has two marks. It has a "T" and an "F".
The "T" is for top and the "F" is for full advance. I think that's right.
With your piston at top dead center you want the "T" line and the other line to line up.
It's been a long time since I have F'd around with this.

In my opinion I would just verify that:
1) Your flywheel woodruff key is good and not sheared
2) Timing marks align
3) Are you actually getting fuel -- it may be no fuel flow and it's leaning out -- check clean jets and fuel pump flow. This "might" be the real problem because you have spark. If something was wrong with the timing like a sheared key then most likely you wouldn't have spark. Also if the FL250 is like the FL350 then the stator plate and trigger coil are fixed. There is NO adjustment because they just bolt in place. You would have to modify to get adjustment.
CO


Attachments:
File comment: FL350 flywheel marks
20200912_100120.jpg
20200912_100120.jpg [ 38.38 KiB | Viewed 5553 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:49 am 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Below is a pic of a FL350 flywheel.
You will see that it has two marks. It has a "T" and an "F".
The "T" is for top and the "F" is for full advance. I think that's right.
With your piston at top dead center you want the "T" line and the other line to line up.
It's been a long time since I have F'd around with this.

In my opinion I would just verify that:
1) Your flywheel woodruff key is good and not sheared
2) Timing marks align
3) Are you actually getting fuel -- it may be no fuel flow and it's leaning out -- check clean jets and fuel pump flow. This "might" be the real problem because you have spark. If something was wrong with the timing like a sheared key then most likely you wouldn't have spark. Also if the FL250 is like the FL350 then the stator plate and trigger coil are fixed. There is NO adjustment because they just bolt in place. You would have to modify to get adjustment.
CO


So I have the flywheel and everything pulled off and was going to test the pickup coils to make sure that it’s at the correct number. But I can’t find a manual for what it’s supposed to be at. Do you know what the OHMS or test procedure for the coil and stator for odyssey with CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) is?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm 
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Location: Wichita ks
Pic
Pulse coil number


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Location: Wichita ks
Few more since you have it apart.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:31 am 
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adnoh wrote:
Few more since you have it apart.

Thank you! I took everything apart and everything looked good. I do, however, think I found the issue. When I was going through and testing the OHMS I found the ignition coil was not working correctly. It was giving spark but definitely not as big as it should of been. Little frustrated with myself that I didn’t check that right away, but I ordered a new one and it’ll be here on Friday. Hoping that was the issue and it’ll start right up!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:56 am 
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Location: Wichita ks
Since you working with the coil and wire.
Unscrew the plug cap and cut a 1/4 inch of wire off then screw back on. You can also do the same where it attaches to the coil. Then retest before you buy a new coil.
This is a common issue over time.
The plug wire get a high resistance from burnt or corroded connection.
This for the secondary test.

If this does make a difference let us know what your reading are for other to read and help others in the future.

One thing to check if you go forward with citing the wire is look at the connection points on the coil and cap. I have seam the caps tip Burton off and new cap needed. If you need a new cap get one that has a matching resistance built it.

In the pic showing the cap it says" noise. Suppressor" this is internal resistance built into cap.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:28 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
It happened to me to and this is what adnoh is talking about:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18792&hilit=death+won%27t
CO


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Posts: 8
adnoh wrote:
Since you working with the coil and wire.
Unscrew the plug cap and cut a 1/4 inch of wire off then screw back on. You can also do the same where it attaches to the coil. Then retest before you buy a new coil.
This is a common issue over time.
The plug wire get a high resistance from burnt or corroded connection.
This for the secondary test.

If this does make a difference let us know what your reading are for other to read and help others in the future.

One thing to check if you go forward with citing the wire is look at the connection points on the coil and cap. I have seam the caps tip Burton off and new cap needed. If you need a new cap get one that has a matching resistance built it.

In the pic showing the cap it says" noise. Suppressor" this is internal resistance built into cap.


I did try and cut It to see if it made a difference, and it did! But still wasn’t enough. I ordered the new one and it got in yesterday. Put it on and pulled about 6 times. 3 out of the 6 back fired through the carb. But I can tell a huge difference already with the new ignition coil on there. I’m going to be tinkering with it most of the day today and see if I can adjust the carb. But headed in the right direction, thank you all for the help so far. If there’s something else I need to try please feel free to let me know. Thank you, Mason.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kuma made a comment earlier in this post about your carb.
In my opinion I would start over.
That carb has to be stripped and every passage verified as clean with a light. Once that is verified you can move on.
A two stroke can actually run in reverse. You say it back fires through the intake so it suggests timing but the thing won't even run so that says fuel. Does the carb even get sufficient fuel to the float bowl and not some little dribble of pizz ??
Hard to tell at this point. I don't know what else to tell you at this point.
CO


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