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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
No, KRC I think (going from memory). There were lots of people making them in the days of racing the FL250's, they're around, just few and far between.

I will eventually turn it into an FL250R or FL300R, but that will be a few years away since the Engine in our last FL250 is still too much of a screamer for the daughter as it is.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
I don't know if the people Hoser mentioned made these cases or not, to bad they didn't make a few more of them.
I wonder how hard it would be to make some in a sand cast mold?

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
Put together a parts list Hoser and an idea where to get the parts. Is that double row bearing going to be hard to find? Looks like the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) was laying in water that crank looks pretty crusty and what kind of a crank is that Hoser?
Hoser might be just the picture but the 350 cylinder looks like its not sitting straight on the block.

Mark


I think the first thing would be to research the ignition since a stock Honda ignition wont fit that crank once we get the ignition figured out then get bearings and seals assemble and try it out.

Contact Marv at 4x4tuff.com and ask if he used motoplat ignitions on his super case engines.

Call Randy at Odysalvage.com see what he says.

Search the web for motoplat anything..

I will clean up the ignition and take detail pics maybe it will help identify what you have.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:05 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Oklahoma
Kyle has knowledge of the Motoplat. i will as him to maybe write down what he knows and i will post.

OMO


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:42 am 
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Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
I have not read this thread but saw the Motoplat comment

Motoplat was big in Huskys and older KTMs, they were known to fail, i had 2 go bad on me.


not sure if this helps but lots on wierd ignitions


http://www.huskyclub.com/ign.htm

look down the bottom

The PVL ignitions sound like the ignition of choice for replacing or upgrading


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Thanks for the link Hare might have to buy something like that not sure yet.

Hoser I had a talk with Marv seems like a real nice guy but he seems to think that all the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs for an ignition is what it has under the cover like a mag makes its own juice. Kind of cool talking with the guy that made my case's and the crankshaft.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
Thanks for the link Hare might have to buy something like that not sure yet.

Hoser I had a talk with Marv seems like a real nice guy but he seems to think that all the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs for an ignition is what it has under the cover like a mag makes its own juice. Kind of cool talking with the guy that made my case's and the crankshaft.

Mark


So the two wires that come out of the cases go right to a coil ?

You happen to ask about getting new cases or ask about the double row bearing he used?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ody_Stable wrote:
Those case halves look a LOT sturdier than the FL250-250R case halves I got from Bill.

Watching a video of a pilot with 350hp would probably be a lot like watching Faces of Death..........


Can you post pics of your cases?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
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Location: fowler, ohio
hoser wrote:
oleblu72 wrote:
Thanks for the link Hare might have to buy something like that not sure yet.

Hoser I had a talk with Marv seems like a real nice guy but he seems to think that all the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs for an ignition is what it has under the cover like a mag makes its own juice. Kind of cool talking with the guy that made my case's and the crankshaft.

Mark


So the two wires that come out of the cases go right to a coil ?

You happen to ask about getting new cases or ask about the double row bearing he used?


Hoser he said the bearing #'s should be on the bearing, I think he said its a 700 series high speed bearing he also said he used to use two single bearings on the clutch side too,he said we still should be able to get them from a store that sells bearings. And he can't make anymore cases because the old boy that made them for him he doesn't know if he's still alive but I think he said the sand mold dies are gone. He said he sold about 300 case's to Triple E so maybe there's some more case's floating around out there.

As far as the ignition goes he said what you have there is all I need because whats on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) makes its on spark like a magneto. Maybe OMO can find something out from his friend to be sure on this.

Mark


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
hoser wrote:
oleblu72 wrote:
Thanks for the link Hare might have to buy something like that not sure yet.

Hoser I had a talk with Marv seems like a real nice guy but he seems to think that all the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs for an ignition is what it has under the cover like a mag makes its own juice. Kind of cool talking with the guy that made my case's and the crankshaft.

Mark


So the two wires that come out of the cases go right to a coil ?

You happen to ask about getting new cases or ask about the double row bearing he used?


Hoser he said the bearing #'s should be on the bearing, I think he said its a 700 series high speed bearing he also said he used to use two single bearings on the clutch side too,he said we still should be able to get them from a store that sells bearings. And he can't make anymore cases because the old boy that made them for him he doesn't know if he's still alive but I think he said the sand mold dies are gone. He said he sold about 300 case's to Triple E so maybe there's some more case's floating around out there.

As far as the ignition goes he said what you have there is all I need because whats on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) makes its on spark like a magneto. Maybe OMO can find something out from his friend to be sure on this.

Mark


Ok thanks I could not see any numbers on the bearing itself because of the rust, I will see if 2 bearings will take the same space as the single if so they are standard Pilot or FL250 clutch side crank bearings.

I think Calvin Pollet said he still had his sand cast molds for this type case I guess their was 3-4 guys making the cases over the years.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Ok Hoser as soon as you find out I can start ordering parts for it. I have a 38MM flat slide Mikuni off a Suzuki Quadzilla that should be ok for this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) shouldn't it?

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Parts list.

Crank seals they appear to be FL250 seals wont know until you get some, their is numbers on the inside of the old seals but I don't know how they translate to Honda numbers the are as follows

Mag side is FPJ 30 55 10 TS A2
Clutch side is FPJ 30 55 10 TS A13

Mag side bearing is a 6306 C3 same as the clutch side on a Honda Pilot

The clutch side bearing is the same size (inside diameter and outside diameter) as the 6306 bearing but it is a double row bearing and its width is 1.185 or 30.12mm you will have to check with a bearing house to find one I am sure, you need one that is not sealed but this don't mean you will end up with a sealed bearing and I have to remove the seals, the old bearing looks like it was sealed and they removed them, you also want to get a C3 clearance on this double row bearing.

Find out anything on the ignition?

I cleaned it up and took more pics, were to assume you just take the 2 wires that come out of the ignition and plug them into a coil? their is no CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)?

Started a post here

viewtopic.php?p=45581#45581


Attachments:
File comment: Gold plate on the left bolts to the stock bolt pattern of the FL250 must be a adapter plate?


On the right is the back side of the stator that bolts to the gold plate.

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File comment: close up of the back side of the stator
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File comment: back of the flywheel
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File comment: number on the back of flywheel
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File comment: Side view

Gold adapter plate to adapt the Honda recoil basket.

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File comment: Front side of stator
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File comment: Made in Spain
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File comment: Flywheel in stator
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DSC04668.JPG [ 87.71 KiB | Viewed 12388 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is pics of the manifold damaged in shipping it can probably be straighten out then you need to find a replacement rubber piece to go between the manifold and carb.

The reed cage is nothing special its just a stock Honda reed cage with the stock metal reed petals.

What I would do is look for a stock FL350 or Pilot manifold and reed cage as a replacement.

As far as the UPS claim, after dealing with UPS over damaged claims in the past my best advice is LET IT GO they won this one, they are going to tell you the same thing I said, not properly packed, and their right it was not.

I had a properly packaged shipment that was damaged in shipping, it was my shock I sent to stoneman, they crushed the box it broke off the oil line to the rez, it was dripping oil on my front porch when I came home, the person that actually took it to UPS and sent it to me WORKS FOR UPS!!

Here is how the claims work, first you need to refuse the package because its damaged that means you wont see your package or its contents for at least 1 month, the guy who sent it has to file the claim not the guy receiving the package.

If your not home to refuse the package then you gotta call them and file a claim they will come back to get the package and they want all the packing materials, they treat the whole thing like a crime scene and do an investigation.

Talk to others they will deny the claim until the shipper calls them 150 times and at lease 4 weeks have passed your screwed.

Wiggins sent a Engine to Texas for investigation http://pilotodyssey.com/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=43
its never been seen again have no clue how he got paid think paypal gave him his money back.

I won with UPS but I had to call and call and call the only thing I had going for me was it was one of their employees that shipped it and I had shipped the same package with the same packing materials a few days before, my package had a history.

My best advice to anybody is to STRESS to who is going to ship stuff to to to pack it right, don't be cavalier about the packaging I have found out maybe 1 out of 100 people understand how to pack something, tell them step by step how you want it boxed up if its an Engine it needs at lease 2" of high density foam board around it, if not and they drop it and they will drop it, your going to have DAMAGE.


Attachments:
DSC04670.JPG
DSC04670.JPG [ 96.45 KiB | Viewed 12385 times ]
DSC04673.JPG
DSC04673.JPG [ 82.98 KiB | Viewed 12385 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Hey Hoser I'm going to need the dimensions on those bearings,I'm not having any luck with the #,I'll need inside diameter, outside dia.. Isee the bearing on the ignition side has secen balls & the clutch side I'm guessing on this has 12. Is that right Hoser and these are ball bearings not roller right?

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
Hey Hoser I'm going to need the dimensions on those bearings,I'm not having any luck with the #,I'll need inside diameter, outside dia.. Isee the bearing on the ignition side has secen balls & the clutch side I'm guessing on this has 12. Is that right Hoser and these are ball bearings not roller right?

Mark


where are you trying to buy the bearings?

Mag side bearing is a 6306 C3 the clutch side will be the same inside diameter and outside diameter as the 6306 bearing but it is a double row bearing and its width is 1.185 or 30.12mm

I can measure the ID and OD but that usually ends up making more confusion because if I am .002 off what they show in the book then you start playing the back and forth game of are you sure or go measure it again.

If you search online you can probably find some place that list the dimensions of a 6306 C3 bearing


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 Post subject: bearing
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 70
hoser wrote:
oleblu72 wrote:
Hey Hoser I'm going to need the dimensions on those bearings,I'm not having any luck with the #,I'll need inside diameter, outside dia.. Isee the bearing on the ignition side has secen balls & the clutch side I'm guessing on this has 12. Is that right Hoser and these are ball bearings not roller right?

Mark


where are you trying to buy the bearings?

Mag side bearing is a 6306 C3 the clutch side will be the same inside diameter and outside diameter as the 6306 bearing but it is a double row bearing and its width is 1.185 or 30.12mm

I can measure the ID and OD but that usually ends up making more confusion because if I am .002 off what they show in the book then you start playing the back and forth game of are you sure or go measure it again.

If you search online you can probably find some place that list the dimensions of a 6306 C3 bearing


Just got parts for a pilot rebuild, and the c3 bearing, if i'm not mistaken, is the mag side on the pilot as well....The o.d. is the same as the 6306, but the I.D. is larger than the 6306...This bearing is still available through Honda..
Redman


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:34 am
Posts: 90
Location: Southern NH
You guys may have already seen this site, but it looks like some useful information regarding the motoplat:

http://www.ktm495.mxbikes.com/motoplat.htm

Also from this site, it looks like the motoplat you have is similar to Maico and Husqvarna motors... may be useful information:

http://www.uk-motoplat.com/gallery.html


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Thanks for the sites Mike , I had the KTM site but not the other one thanks again.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:34 am
Posts: 90
Location: Southern NH
No prob. The UK Motoplat sites' homepage says,

"Because we have been testing and repairing Motoplat ignitions for many years we feel that we can give free trusting advice to people who my contact us either by phone or e-mail."

Seems like its definitely worth shooting them an email with some pics to get a lot of your questions answered!


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Hey Hoser you should be getting those bearings and seals in about 3 Or 4 days. What else do I need, center case gasket, base & head gasket, should I get a copper head gasket? Have you figured out what type of cylinder that is? Any nuts & bolts or dowel pins?

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
Hey Hoser you should be getting those bearings and seals in about 3 Or 4 days. What else do I need, center case gasket, base & head gasket, should I get a copper head gasket? Have you figured out what type of cylinder that is? Any nuts & bolts or dowel pins?

Mark


Hi, their is no center case gasket its like the snowmobile engines they machine the cases then use like yamabond to seal them, I will pull the dowel pins and lap the cases to ensure they are still good and flat, will need a cylinder gasket I was looking today it looks like a FL350 or a 81-84 ATC250R cylinder gasket will work I just gotta trim it around the cylinder because its much bigger, the OEM fl350 cylinder gasket is aluminum so I would stay away from them, the current head gasket it copper so I will anneal it and reuse.

I have no idea what the cylinder is off of you take the pics and spread them around the vintage cycle sites?


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:22 am 
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Location: fowler, ohio
Ok Hoser thanks, how about the small end rod bearing, piston & rings?

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:37 am 
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Location: Chicago
oleblu72 wrote:
Ok Hoser thanks, how about the small end rod bearing, piston & rings?

Mark


Those parts are "ok" what I would do is reuse them for now, get it running then after 10-20 hrs if you like it go with new, you figure out what pipe your going to use?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Probably have Marv's friend make one for me he said he has a jig for a FL250 that is running a FL350 jug on it. I'll have to give him a call and see what it will cost.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 141
Location: fowler, ohio
Hey Hoser did you get the bearings for my motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) ok ,and is the double row bearing & the seals the right ones?You should get the gaskets in about a week or so.

Mark


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