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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ok I have done all I can do, the heads are both lapped flat I would use the one we been calling "good" that was the one with the higher compression, use it with no head gasket use the O rings, lightly grease them, NO SILICONE SEALER to seal the head or to help seal the o rings, you might need to use some around the studs up by the head nuts to keep coolant from weeping out under the nuts.

Keep in mind if you get wet silicone on the threads of the studs or head nuts this is greatly going to affect the torque you will end up over torquing the nuts, try this simple test take a 3" long wood screw try to drive it into a 4x4 block of wood with your battery drill driver, then coat the threads slightly with a little bit of silicone sealer run it in again, night and day difference, I use silicone sealer on the threads of my wood screws when they are hard to drive and keep snapping off before seated, works better than grease.

As discussed before BOTH heads will need the areas where the head nuts seat machined FLAT you will NEVER get an accurate torque if the nuts are not setting flat making full contact with the head I had to run a drill bit through all the holes to clean them up you could not just slide the head down over the studs the inside of the holes was so buggered up from people using the WRONG head nuts (too small) and the mating surfaces being uneven it moved the metal of the head into the holes then tried to use the threads of the studs as a file each time you put the head on and took it off.


Image


Cant believe they went to all the trouble to fabricate these nice heads then didnt machine them flat where the nuts set, I racked my brain trying to figure out a way to machine them flat here in my shop I just don't have the machine to do it, I have a 3/4" end mill I could put in my drill press and probably dress up the head nut surface but I am not confident I can properly hold the head in place while its cutting if the cutter grabbed it might throw your head across the shop and damage it requiring welding to repair, not worth the risk, if they were my heads I would send them to Speedchaser have him dress them up, this has to be fixed before the heads are used.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Removed all the studs none were really tight enough for running the Engine they could probably would back off over time.

Marked up the top of the cylinder with a black marker before lapping to see how flat the surface is, it was nice and flat.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I honed the cylinder lightly so its ready for a set of fresh rings, you could try the other rings if you wanted too until you get this thing dialed in and get some hours on it then remove the cylinder and install a fresh set.

When I removed the rings from the piston I noticed that top ring had the markings on the bottom side and the second ring had the markings facing up, not sure if this matters or not on the wiseco but usually they want all markings on rings facing UP when installed, if you want to reuse these you can you can see how I marked them so you can reinstall exactly as they came off, the ring with two back marks on the left side is the second ring, you want black marks facing up, the ring with just one big black mark is the top ring and the mark is facing up note that on the top ring you cant see the markings N100 because it was installed upside down...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
As discussed before I clean up the areas on this cylinder that was never cleaned up and added a few enhancements hear and their.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Plenty of piston to cylinder clearance on this piston too much if you ask me for a water cooled Engine, it currently has .006 I would run .004 if it was mine unless someone can give you a good reason to run more.

If you look at the skirt you can see the piston has been rocking in the bore plenty it has worn off the anti scuff coating on the piston, this setup will require frequent tear downs and inspections to check that piston for further wear and or cracking, I would run it 20-25 hrs then do a inspection.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Their was a deep groove in the exhaust bridge the exhaust bridge needed more relieve so I was able to massage out most the scratch, their is still a slight scratch above the bridge but if this was my top end being new to me I would run it as is soon as I got the jetting dialed in and confirm I have no cooling problems, leaks etc. then I would pull the cylinder and do a top end inspection, check for further wear on the piston skirt, look at the piston below the rings to see if their is blow by if they are sealing properly, look at the cylinder wall where you see that scratch to see if their is evidence of exhaust gases trying to blow by then go from their.

The reason why I would not install a new piston in this cylinder is I would hate to seize a brand new piston whilst I was trying to establish my baseline jetting or discover I had over heating problems with my cooling system, blown hose, air locked, leak what ever..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 1040
Location: hole above ground
hoser wrote:
Ok I have done all I can do, the heads are both lapped flat I would use the one we been calling "good" that was the one with the higher compression, use it with no head gasket use the O rings, lightly grease them, NO SILICONE SEALER to seal the head or to help seal the o rings, you might need to use some around the studs up by the head nuts to keep coolant from weeping out under the nuts.

Keep in mind if you get wet silicone on the threads of the studs or head nuts this is greatly going to affect the torque you will end up over torquing the nuts, try this simple test take a 3" long wood screw try to drive it into a 4x4 block of wood with your battery drill driver, then coat the threads slightly with a little bit of silicone sealer run it in again, night and day difference, I use silicone sealer on the threads of my wood screws when they are hard to drive and keep snapping off before seated, works better than grease.

As discussed before BOTH heads will need the areas where the head nuts seat machined FLAT you will NEVER get an accurate torque if the nuts are not setting flat making full contact with the head I had to run a drill bit through all the holes to clean them up you could not just slide the head down over the studs the inside of the holes was so buggered up from people using the WRONG head nuts (too small) and the mating surfaces being uneven it moved the metal of the head into the holes then tried to use the threads of the studs as a file each time you put the head on and took it off.

Cant believe they went to all the trouble to fabricate these nice heads then didnt machine them flat where the nuts set, I racked my brain trying to figure out a way to machine them flat here in my shop I just don't have the machine to do it, I have a 3/4" end mill I could put in my drill press and probably dress up the head nut surface but I am not confident I can properly hold the head in place while its cutting if the cutter grabbed it might throw your head across the shop and damage it requiring welding to repair, not worth the risk, if they were my heads I would send them to Speedchaser have him dress them up, this has to be fixed before the heads are used.


what is the small hole pilot size and how big can you go on the large dia
I my have a counter bore or I can spin one up and send it to you
what size of chuck you have on your drill press what the biggest dia. that will fit in there


speed


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
speedchaser wrote:
hoser wrote:
Ok I have done all I can do, the heads are both lapped flat I would use the one we been calling "good" that was the one with the higher compression, use it with no head gasket use the O rings, lightly grease them, NO SILICONE SEALER to seal the head or to help seal the o rings, you might need to use some around the studs up by the head nuts to keep coolant from weeping out under the nuts.

Keep in mind if you get wet silicone on the threads of the studs or head nuts this is greatly going to affect the torque you will end up over torquing the nuts, try this simple test take a 3" long wood screw try to drive it into a 4x4 block of wood with your battery drill driver, then coat the threads slightly with a little bit of silicone sealer run it in again, night and day difference, I use silicone sealer on the threads of my wood screws when they are hard to drive and keep snapping off before seated, works better than grease.

As discussed before BOTH heads will need the areas where the head nuts seat machined FLAT you will NEVER get an accurate torque if the nuts are not setting flat making full contact with the head I had to run a drill bit through all the holes to clean them up you could not just slide the head down over the studs the inside of the holes was so buggered up from people using the WRONG head nuts (too small) and the mating surfaces being uneven it moved the metal of the head into the holes then tried to use the threads of the studs as a file each time you put the head on and took it off.

Cant believe they went to all the trouble to fabricate these nice heads then didnt machine them flat where the nuts set, I racked my brain trying to figure out a way to machine them flat here in my shop I just don't have the machine to do it, I have a 3/4" end mill I could put in my drill press and probably dress up the head nut surface but I am not confident I can properly hold the head in place while its cutting if the cutter grabbed it might throw your head across the shop and damage it requiring welding to repair, not worth the risk, if they were my heads I would send them to Speedchaser have him dress them up, this has to be fixed before the heads are used.


what is the small hole pilot size and how big can you go on the large dia
I my have a counter bore or I can spin one up and send it to you
what size of chuck you have on your drill press what the biggest dia. that will fit in there


speed


Drill press chuck is 1/2"
Drill bit that fits like you would want the pilot point to fit and what I used to chase the holes measures .333


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 135
Location: WESTERN NC
Did you by any chance run any kinda test on the low comp head to see if it is cracked or something?
or maybe just badly warped?/


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
KUDA wrote:
Did you by any chance run any kinda test on the low comp head to see if it is cracked or something?
or maybe just badly warped?/



Why would you suspect it was cracked?

It was not close to being flat, it is now :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 135
Location: WESTERN NC
ys,I thought it might be
It was blowing out the water intake when cranked,


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
KUDA wrote:
ys,I thought it might be
It was blowing out the water intake when cranked,


I will look at it again what you can do ( I don't have the O rings) whilst the cylinder is on the bench install the O rings, install the head, torque the head then rig up some plugs and plug the coolant inlet and outlet and pressure test the cylinder and head cooling jacket should easily hold 20-30 lbs air pressure if it don't toss it in a body of water and start looking for your leak, this will find most leaks, on a rare occasion some engines only leak (water, oil, compression, vacuum) when the Engine is hot so don't think your 100% leak free until you have heat cycled it many times then if it don't leak you can relax some..


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