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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:02 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:06 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:45 am 
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is the piston in backwards? head gasket leaking (rust in the cylinder), way to much silicone, to much material removed from the exhaust port (some weld/patch work) still looks like it is leaking in places?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:59 am 
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Nailed most of it afastcar!

Piston is in right(87.00MM). I didnt have my feeler gages to check clearance piston to sleeve..look to my eye to be .010+. I assume they ran em larger, piston looks fine. cant check ring gap but looks OK and maybe slightly large. Very light rust and only in a few places,not anywhere the rings ride. Must have got moisture in there somewhere. Bottom end looks great and oily. Crank has been turned down some then holes drilled (for lightened mass I am guessing,or maybe high RPM balancing) I have a spare crank with the holes in the same places.

Dome has seen parts flying before...lol but is a low CC for sure. I will check it soon. The first lip turns at 87mm and second at 69.73mm. I will attemp to do the Adnoh math soon on it.

There are pin holes in the exhaust port work that lead into the water jacket on one side...leaking down the exhaust spigot residue into the pipe(that will show up during a leak down). I need to find a alum welder up here somewhere. I need to blend in the previous welding in the exhaust.

As Hoser likes to say, "Silicone Homo" got carried away with spooge. This is a perfect example of why not to! That is what GASKETS are for.

I will probably have some copper bases made up for better sealing. The base plate does not even come close to matching the port work, I can fix that, then get rid of all the globs of silicone(does not help the flow, kills me,lmao)

There is no head gasket, just inner and outer O rings...and SILICONE. We will see how it holds up, I can always add a CR500 gasket later.

gary


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:59 am 
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Lol noticed the piston being backwards and the caulk gun gaskets lol.
That intake side must have ran very cool with the cooling holes on the wrong side lol


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Piston is actually in forward(correct), hard to tell from the pictures. That is a port window in the piston and the intake side has a extra port in the sleeve. Miss that in the photos? hehehe New to me too! I am getting the dremel out tonight and start "fixing" things.

I am heading to Cheyenne tomorrow night to get my 420 Leckich oddy and bring her up here to Minot for...tuning up????


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:14 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
Piston is actually in forward(correct), hard to tell from the pictures. That is a port window in the piston and the intake side has a extra port in the sleeve. Miss that in the photos? hehehe New to me too! I am getting the dremel out tonight and start "fixing" things.

I am heading to Cheyenne tomorrow night to get my 420 Leckich oddy and bring her up here to Minot for...tuning up????


Guy that last assembled that Engine must have thought he was caulking a window or storm door?

It looks like that head was meant to be sealed with O rings, if the head and the top of the cylinder is flat then all you need to seal it is the Orings no sealers, most the heads I have seen that seal like that including OEM engines just use a soft steal washer under the head nuts this usually seals up and coolant leaking around the studs concerns, after market heads like my Pro Design for the Pilot used copper washers under the head nuts, never a leak, my ROTAX 440 sled Engine that has Orings from the factory they use a silicone sealer just around the studs to keep coolant from creeping up and leaking out between the washer and the head and then you only need to put a little bit around the studs only.

Coating the whole surface like see was done in the pictures is just plan stupid, jackassery, shows the complete lack of understanding about mating up of Engine parts.

Let me draw a mental picture for everybody about sealing up engines, FIRST if the parts are clean and flat they should seal WITHOUT any gaskets or sealers just bolt them up metal to metal and they would seal how ever these are production machines their is not enough precision in the castings that you could rely on every one begin the same, the parts are machined in a high production environment, so to reduce the chances of a Engine leaking its gaskets for everybody turn up production speed balls out WOT (Wide Open Throttle) lets make MONEY shoving the parts out the door.

The crank cases on SOME engines are only sealed with sealer their is no gaskets, special care is taken when these parts are cast and machined, they will actually seal without any sealer but over time will weep a little if no sealer is used.

Normally all the parts mate up almost perfectly, if anybody has read a service manual for a ATV Engine they all give great details on checking parts to ensure they are flat enough to properly seal under average conditions, all the parts should be clean and flat free from any defects if they are then all you need to do is apply a light coat of oil on both sides of the gaskets and assemble and torque to specs all will be fine, no gobs of silicone required, you ONLY use sealers where the manual says its required!!!!!!

You don't ( I never do) use grease or oil on the head gaskets just install them dry some gaskets has a temp coating that bonds to the metal surfaces once heat cycled a few times, you probably have seen the residue left on the parts when you took the Engine apart.

When you get parts like Nukems cylinder spacer most guys like us here on this site don't have a machine shop like Speedchaser and the skills to ensure that spacer the crank cases and the bottom of the cylinder is perfectly flat, we can lap the spacer and the top of the crank cases but can only half ass check the bottom of the cylinder like shown in the service manual, so this is where a exception to the no sealer rule comes into play, I would never use silicone because its not as good at withstanding pressures as other sealers like threebond, yamabond, hondabond type sealers.

The minor imperfections your trying to seal when no gasket is used is almost nothing, if their is any measurable GAP between the parts STOP and correct this problem sealers are not designed to fill or seal GAPS a paper type gasket CAN seal up minor gaps, so when you apply the sealer keep in mind 99% of its going to be squeezed out, when you take the Engine apart you wont find a thick layer of the sealer you will be lucky to find a layer less than the thickness of a sheet of news paper, fact is if you find a layer 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of news paper you need to fix the mating surfaces.

On metal to metal connections a layer of sealer about 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of news paper is all you need but this is hard to apply, if I was going to install a space plate with no gasket I would try using that spray on copper coat gasket sealer on both sides of the spacer plate, spray it on (again real thin coat) let it dry then flip over spray the other side.

If using threebond yammabond or hondabond type sealers just apply a thin layer then only apply it close to the outside edges of the surfaces so when torqued any that tries to squeeze between parts wont squeeze inside and block flow like seen in the above pics.

Hope this helps.

I am sure we will see more engines like this in the future with sealants oozing out all over the place lmao


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:39 pm 
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That was the best explaination of gaskets, sealers, n RTV I have ever read...very well stated! You may want to cut n paste that in the how to section. Wish I could explain myself like that. I do use the spray copper gasket on my base gaskets. Pretty nasty stuff but works GREAT!

Anyway, pulled the reeds n carb before the dremel work. Found more good n bad. More pin holes in the intake area...who did this stuff and then ran it??? Just crazy. No signs of leakage so maybe just pits from the external welding??? Question...what do you think about getting some JB weld in there the blending that smooth? I cant believe it would ever pop out of a hole like that... but if it ever did, bad news!

Reeds appear to be a V-Force type,not sure 1, 2, or 3. Ports are pretty massive...but kinda expected that. I don't have "Edward Sausage Fingers" but I can easily run fingers thru all ports.

Also, the low speed jet is missing from the carb...how did this Engine idle???? Pulled from a good running machine...not so sure. don't get me wrong, I am still very happy just to have these engines and I can fix this stuff. I just don't like "incorrect info". Skeeter didnt run them and told me what he was told so really like to know who were the previous owners of Bob Briggs personal buggies.

Oh, My old Leckich solid copper base plate is .030mm thicker than the one on there...and fits perfect! That will give this Engine that much more gap to bring the compression and squish down if I ever wanted to run pump gas instead of 110 race fuel. I do not have my .120 solder to check squish but will do that soon. I am betting on HIGH comression and tight squish just by looking things over.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:44 pm 
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more pics...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Location: Philadelphia PA
Ive seen that jb weld approach on a 340 head that the guy ported so thin he hit a coolant jacket. He jb'ed it and raced with it installed. It was a track car and it held up well. So hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Nuke Em wrote:
That was the best explaination of gaskets, sealers, n RTV I have ever read...very well stated! You may want to cut n paste that in the how to section. Wish I could explain myself like that. I do use the spray copper gasket on my base gaskets. Pretty nasty stuff but works GREAT!

Anyway, pulled the reeds n carb before the dremel work. Found more good n bad. More pin holes in the intake area...who did this stuff and then ran it??? Just crazy. No signs of leakage so maybe just pits from the external welding??? Question...what do you think about getting some JB weld in there the blending that smooth? I cant believe it would ever pop out of a hole like that... but if it ever did, bad news!

Reeds appear to be a V-Force type,not sure 1, 2, or 3. Ports are pretty massive...but kinda expected that. I don't have "Edward Sausage Fingers" but I can easily run fingers thru all ports.

Also, the low speed jet is missing from the carb...how did this Engine idle???? Pulled from a good running machine...not so sure. don't get me wrong, I am still very happy just to have these engines and I can fix this stuff. I just don't like "incorrect info". Skeeter didnt run them and told me what he was told so really like to know who were the previous owners of Bob Briggs personal buggies.

Oh, My old Leckich solid copper base plate is .030mm thicker than the one on there...and fits perfect! That will give this Engine that much more gap to bring the compression and squish down if I ever wanted to run pump gas instead of 110 race fuel. I do not have my .120 solder to check squish but will do that soon. I am betting on HIGH comression and tight squish just by looking things over.


If you add gaskets to the spacer plate this will raise your transfer ports and change your port timing, it will also change your compression ratio you should have adnoh run the numbers.

They cut the Honda reed cage off these cylinders and install a reed cage off a Kawisucki Engine so they can run the bigger Kaw reed cage that's why you see all the welding and pin holes, I assume the holes go to no where and do not leak and they were not worth the welders time to mess with filling and grinding? You could rough up the area and fill with JB weld if you wanted.

Look on the other side of that carb for the LOW speed adjuster :-) Read that mukni book that came with package once you understand them you will like the carbs and want to install one on everything you own lol one of these days I am going to try one on a Pilot Engine you can usually get them cheap on evilbay do a search for super BN


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:40 pm 
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hoser wrote:
If you add gaskets to the spacer plate this will raise your transfer ports and change your port timing, it will also change your compression ratio you should have adnoh run the numbers.

They cut the Honda reed cage off these cylinders and install a reed cage off a Kawisucki Engine so they can run the bigger Kaw reed cage that's why you see all the welding and pin holes, I assume the holes go to no where and do not leak and they were not worth the welders time to mess with filling and grinding? You could rough up the area and fill with JB weld if you wanted.

Look on the other side of that carb for the LOW speed adjuster :-) Read that mukni book that came with package once you understand them you will like the carbs and want to install one on everything you own lol one of these days I am going to try one on a Pilot Engine you can usually get them cheap on evilbay do a search for super BN


I don't thinkI will be changing the base plate anytime soon, I actually want to run it with race fuel for a bit. I sure do not want to change to port timing so to DE tune it, thick head gaskets might be the best solution...good catch.

Only found one area that looked like it has been leaking coolant so it needs fixed. I will prob fill and blend all of them in with JB. Been working the dremel pretty hard tonight already...making decent progress. I have a pile of used up drums.

Thanks, Cant believe I didnt look at the other side of the carb...derrrrrrrrr. I thought I checked that earlier and it was fine, and was kicking myself and not catching it. Must be getting tired...or old? lol I have not even cracked the books on the carbs...but I will.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:28 am 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
I would be careful grinding the welds/patches smooth in the exhaust port, once they take to much materiel out and it gets pinholes, cracks, and leaks it is a pain to weld and fix, cast is not easy to weld and takes an experienced welder, patches I have seen hold up are a little raised like yours are and i doubt it makes a big difference in flow.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:15 am 
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Ooops, litttle late, already blended them out. Well we will see what happens, sure hope it doesnt crack the walls. I am still planning on working JB into each hole, then blend the area smooth, then polishing the entire exhaust area. We will call it an experiment! lol :-)

My Minot ND rental house has a wash basin by the washer/dryer. It works great for a porting area with the lighted magnifing glass. Easy clean up too.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:06 pm 
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To repair the thin porting areas - fill the coolant side with block filler. Angle the cylinder to keep the filler on that one side. Once dried, go in with a dremel to grind out the excess and clear any crossover ports. Much better than JB weld, easier than welding a thinner than paper metal.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:01 am 
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Thanks for the tip! Where can I find block filler, I have never seen(or looked) for it but have heard of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:43 pm 
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I am cleaning up all the repair work (to the repair work) and polishing the exhaust area.

What do you think about the water holes being different sizes? While its all dirty with shavings, should I go ahead and open up the jug holes to match the bigger head cooling holes? The gasket is just there to show what stock CR500 head gasket looks like, this Engine only uses o-rings. My main concern is a greater chance of mating surface warpage if it gets hot with less surface to head area on the jug with no gasket...or am I over thinking it????


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Nuke Em wrote:
I am cleaning up all the repair work (to the repair work) and polishing the exhaust area.

What do you think about the water holes being different sizes? While its all dirty with shavings, should I go ahead and open up the jug holes to match the bigger head cooling holes? The gasket is just there to show what stock CR500 head gasket looks like, this Engine only uses o-rings. My main concern is a greater chance of mating surface warpage if it gets hot with less surface to head area on the jug with no gasket...or am I over thinking it????


I would not mess with any of the coolant hole sizes.

Does it run a gasket or just orings, I assume it was setup to run just orings no gasket.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Ya, just O-rings. that's kinda what I thought too. I figure if Bob Briggs didnt have cooling issues as hard as he beat on this Engine, its probably fine. Thanks for the second opinion Hoser. Just finishing the first polishing stage, lil more than then the buffing. Pretty! lol


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:59 pm 
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Pics of the repair n polishing...i left my 10,000 grit paste in Cheyenne, crap. I will either get more or just leave it as is. Too tired to mess with it tonight. I ended up using JB weld and let it cure almost a week before working it.

Oh, and the base spacer plate was RTV'd in upside down,that's why nothing was right. I am sure Bobs Engine builder didnt do that or all the RTV so some one has been in here before me. :-)


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