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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 396
hoser wrote:
Fatcat wrote:
I like that site! A while back I ran across it and was reading a little bit about the huge big bores. From my reading I came to the conclusion that the transmissions seem to be prone to failure. Are there ways of correcting this? I love the idea but it sure would suck to build all that power to have a live grenade. What kind of power do you think the sabertooth could put out?



Search around the web see if you can find some dyno sheets I am sure someone has had their Sabertooth ported and put on the dyno I recall seeing more than one talking about 100+ HP reliably with the 538cc top end and over 9000 RPM I know if I had a CR500 Pilot Engine and was using it for racing I would have ordered one of the sabertooth top ends long ago I would not be wasting time with the Honda CR500 top end.

No doubt the guys having trans problems are the hole shot junkies and straight line shooters that only ride to impress people by short WOT (Wide Open Throttle) burst and roosting others to impress they are not daily drivers if I am wrong please let me know, stock trans is plenty strong but was never designed to be hole shot with 3x stock power and 2x the traction 1000 times a weekend.



You mean straight liners like this guy selling: http://maine.craigslist.org/mcy/3099870253.html" ."..

Pilotman


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Teardown for this trx coming today. I received the frame gusset kit I ordered for the frame last night as well. Engine will be taken out and sent to Hoser for a CSI as well. I am currently researching options for stem, anti vibe,suspensions arms, plastics, everything for this ride. I have limited knowledge in the trx's.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Ok, tough day today. Stripped the project down to bare frame and boy are there a ton of hidden troubles with this TRX. First and foremost I do not think the Engine is a TRX bottom end as the back of the cases were wearing on the swing arm badly-it appeared to me that the cases are meant for a 86 atc as the swing arm goes through the cases in the rear.

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The frame is cracked in numerous spots all over, and repairs to it in places are poorly done.
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Also I cannot get the rad out of the frame, it appears the top section is or was bent and repaired and it is just a shade too low and it is preventing me from removing it. Also, the swing arm bolt was frozen, the bearings are toasted in the front, carb is junk, the upper mount on the head appears to aftermarket it is cracked, the stem and associated hardware including bearings and such are all toast,I mean the list is endless.
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I need to rebuild it from the ground up, and starting with the frame I do not have a clue if I should try to repair this one or purchase 1 through a member, etc. If this Engine is not the right bottom end, is it worth even buying another Engine for it, I am 90% sure it is a atc bottom end as there is no way that bottom end should rub that badly on the swinger. I'll post pictures later but I compared it too my 86 250r atc Engine and it appears to be exact same to the T.Any ideas are appreciated here as I might just part it out and forget I even purchased it. I am 2000.00 down already, with much more to come it appears.
I also forgot to mention the front arms are all toast,the front wheel bearings and seals gone, needs front brake pads both sides,I mean it is bad. I almost lost it half way through as most of the nuts and bolts are mismatched and that drives me nuts.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
More pictures. I am weighting my options here on this project. I can get the frame fixed at my fab guys shop but is it worth it? If this Engine is wrong, I have to purchase at least the correct cases, CSI them and then rebuild the Engine which is not cheap. I am 2 grand into project currently and are looking at a few more to get it right at least. It might be worth just parting it out at the present time. It needs everything fellas, I mean literally every nut, bolt, seal, bearing, brake pad,grips, cables, carbs, rubber mounts, it is trash and needs replacing.
I was researching buying a donor TRX off ebay but that is not the answer either. Any ideas on this project are welcomed as I am at a crossroads with it. It is currently in boxes here at my garage, everything is apart and awaiting a decision.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: San Diego
Wife says you need to rattle can it purple and yellow and drag it down to Texas.....

I'm sure 'someone' down there will buy it......


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 700
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Mud, you are a good guy, sorry this happened to you....

When you first thought about buying it, did you have any idea what it might need?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:36 am 
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 5:14 am
Posts: 214
Bl@@dy itiy's... your smarter with $$ than me mate but your into it for 2k and looking at another 2-3k for a spare ride worth what to you? it's not a pilot, depends where your heart is on it


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Lonerider wrote:
Mud, you are a good guy, sorry this happened to you....

When you first thought about buying it, did you have any idea what it might need?


Yes and No. I figured from researching a bit the frames are suspect on these, so I did expect some issues with it,but so many cracks and poorly welded repairs shocked me! The Engine being the wrong 1 was a total shock. :shock: Also it ran fine and compression is fine too-I did not check items like carb, tires, etc due to I usually replace them anyway on my projects. As to the many missing mounts and such I had no clue as I am new to these machines. I am sure if I look around I can find these missing items, but the larger items like cases, frame, a-ARMS are going to be big bucks.I do not mind investing into a machine, but in this case I really need to think about if it worth it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:20 am 
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Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
turbo wrote:
Bl@@dy itiy's... your smarter with $$ than me mate but your into it for 2k and looking at another 2-3k for a spare ride worth what to you? it's not a pilot, depends where your heart is on it



Exactly, is the risk worth the gain on it? I might be able to recoup a grand off Ebay parting it out if I get lucky.Time to research options.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Update. Speaking to the TRX forum fellas they feel the broken Engine mount directly above the cases is the cause of that wear, every time you adjust the chain or sit on it the Engine would be pulled back toward the swinger-they tell me the Engine looks to be the right one from pictures and the broken mount is the cause of that wear, your thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Touch up the frame repairs so they are solid repairs rattle can the frame Honda read reassemble and RIDE IT fix other problems as they crop up, address the other maintenance problems when you have it stripped down, bad bearings etc.

Take more pics of the Engine rubbing I am sure their is a easy fix for that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
Touch up the frame repairs so they are solid repairs rattle can the frame Honda read reassemble and RIDE IT fix other problems as they crop up, address the other maintenance problems when you have it stripped down, bad bearings etc.

Take more pics of the Engine rubbing I am sure their is a easy fix for that.


Hello Hoser!I took the Engine out yesterday so that picture posted is basically the only photo I got.You feel that mount is the issue?
I can take the frame to the welder,BUT it still needs a ton of stuff to get it to ride condition and I think the upper section by the steering stem is bent down just a touch, I cannot get the rad out of the frame. And if these cases are bad that throws another wrench into the plan. Can I send this over to you please(Engine). I also need all the front arms replaced, steering stem is bad, I need many a part.
I am on Ebay and the forums currently researching the costs of a frame replacement.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 464
Have you pulled the rear axle carrier out and checked the bearings yet? They were notorious for getting water, sand in there and then wiping everything out. Aftermarket twin carriers were the best just be sure to replace all the seals on the swingarm. If you plan on keeping it ditch the axle lock set up from Honda and buy one of these. http://www.team-rpm.com/honda-trx-250r- ... embly.html does not have to be that particular brand but the way they are made they don't come loose. They also dissipate the heat better from the rear brakes. I bought a trx 250r for my x back in the early 90's and went completely through it. My frame wasn't as bad as yours but the rest of the quad was in 5 gallon buckets from a police impound auction. It was the only thing other than the kitchen she took when we split. LOL. The swingarm needle bearings are normally junk also. I have had to heat them and soak them just to free the axle bolt up.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Sorry to hear of the loss of the ride-I have 1 of these for a 250r ATC axle already and was hoping to utilize it in fact! I have not taken the carrier out, but the bearings seem fine, it is not lose at all. I have purchased double row carriers in the past and agree they are the way to go!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Engine out, on it's way to Hosers for a complete rebuild. More to come on this in the coming weeks


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 326
Hey Mud/ Hoser
if you post a pic of the front of the Engine (where the front mounting bolt goes through) i can tell you if they are ATC or TRX cases but even if they are ATC cases they shouldn't hit the swinger......i have new Engine cases and loads of parts for the TRX if you need anything??????


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Oh man I sent the Engine to Hoser this morning Pete. Hoser can you post a picture when you get it please?
Pilotpete, I will need parts for this, I need a ton of mounts for the plastics, gas tank,etc so get ready!!!
I am still in limbo as too the frame on this thing, do you happen to have a OEM frame?
I do need all 4 front arms right off the bat Pilotpete.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 326
Mudbogger wrote:
Oh man I sent the Engine to Hoser this morning Pete. Hoser can you post a picture when you get it please?
Pilotpete, I will need parts for this, I need a ton of mounts for the plastics, gas tank,etc so get ready!!!
I am still in limbo as too the frame on this thing, do you happen to have a OEM frame?
I do need all 4 front arms right off the bat Pilotpete.



Easy way of telling ATC cases with TRX is the front mounting bolt hole....
ATC has a taper ground in to the centre of the cases.... the TRX case has half of the same hole chopped out on both cases....there are some internal differences as well, but you can match ATC and TRX cases together....
Mud i'll have all the mounts/mounting rubbers you need...i have got a frame but shipping will kill it from the UK....and i don't have any front arms.....but have loads of other parts ...make me a list up :-) :-) :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Well, this project has really gone wrong from day 1-BUT and I mean BUT a small tunnel of light has emerged!
I went into the garage today after speaking with Hoser on the chat room-I had a Engine sitting on the bench here from my WIGGINS 250r purchase some years back. While Hoser was rebuilding the origInal Engine from that project I had purchased another Engine off Ebay-supposedly it was fresh rebuild and I ran it for a spell till Hoser got my original Engine to me. I looked at the cases and they ARE TRX CASES!!! I was shocked but I double checked it and they are indeed trx cases, this Engine is complete and in great condition,piston looks brand new, as does the bore, you can see the cross hatching in it in fact! so I will use it till the Engine is rebuilt by Hoser. Again the Engine rebuild is all dependent on if the cases are TRX and not atc. Hoser has told me the rod has bad play in it, needs a piston, and numerous nuts and bolts are wrong.

I might have turned the corner on this project, at least I am hoping I have!!! I dropped the frame off at my fab guys shop, we cleaned and stripped the frame and noticed several more cracks,which are bad but it is repairable he says. I purchased 4 used +2 arms off Ebay with replaceable ball joints in them, tie rods came with them. I'll need to purchase shock for them at a later date. I also purchased a set of swinger bearings(actual kit), and I am looking for a stem and anti vibe bars.
Pilotpete will be able(hopefully) to supply me with the plastics mounts, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) rubbers, mounts for the tank, and all associated hardware I'll need to get that aspect of the project squared away.

BTW the PPE is near completion, my fab guy had to correct some bumpsteer issues so he lowered 1 side to make the inner and outer tie rods level, also by doing so he eliminated an issue with the outer tie rod binding up on full compression. I am expecting it soon.
Pilotpete, I will start a list of what I need from you for the project ok?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Have been buying parts up for this project in the last 2 weeks:
New Durablue Eliminator +2 rear axle
New Durablue rear +1 hubs
New Durablue anti fade rear brake hub
New Durablue anti lock nut
Used but in really nice shape +2 Lonestar front a arms with tie rods
New Gibson steering stem +2
New Gibson anti vibe clamp
New Sidewinder chain and sprockets set(titanium sprockets)
New Kiehin carb
Pumashine gusset kit(custom made kit from the trx boards, guy is like the speedchaser of trx's)
Still awaiting all of the trx OEM rubber mounts and bushings from Pilotpete along with as many OEM bolts and nuts he can supply to me for mounting swinger, Engine, etc.
ASV controls
Fatbars 1 1/8 thickness

Still more to go here I am waiting to pull trigger on some other items but the Engine needs attention over at Hosers so I'll postpone them till I get whatever Hoser needs for the complete rebuild.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Frame still at the fab guys shop, project stalled due to this.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Frame has been completed finally. I have it home, but will be dropping it off at the powder coater in the coming weeks. I am going to powder it gloss black, to match the Laegers swinger I purchased. The black with polished aluminum will go nicely. My front Lonestar +2 arms are chrome, and the steering stem, anti vibe bar clamps, handlebars,nerfs are all chrome as well, making the look rather nice IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Hello Mudd, I was looking over the pics and have a thought you may want to look at or you already have considered. Since the frame was hap hardly repaired and the cases was wore like it was and the bracket was broke. My concern is with the head stay bolted up and the front Engine mount bolted up the case should not be sitting in the position it is unless the frame repair does not correct have alingment or the mounts/cases are wore badly or oblongened. Have you dry fit the Engine checking all mounts to the Engine including the head stay for propper alignment. Hate to see a new powder coated frame be reworked or blowing head caskets.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
I dry fitted the spare Engine I have here in the frame and the mounts and bolts all lined up perfectly.
Also I got received my order for all the stock OEM rubber bushings, mounts, straps everything to mount the Engine,tank, plastics, rear light, front light, everything which is way cool!! Thanks to Pilotpete for getting that order!!!
Frame and associated parts are awaiting a trip to a powdercoater, I need to locate a new 1 as my old guy went out of bis,which sucks!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Location: Wichita ks
Good to hear you had it covered.


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