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 Post subject: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Just picked up a new toy a pilot with a 500 conversion Engine and other goodies. More to come will post soon


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3604
Location: CHICO,CA
Mudbogger wrote:
Just picked up a new toy a pilot with a 500 conversion Engine and other goodies. More to come will post soon


What's the count to now?


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Too many it seems. Sold some recently, then picked up a couple, think it is near 16 or 15 minus the PPE and Triple EEE.


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 2913
Location: houston
Mudbogger wrote:
Too many it seems. Sold some recently, then picked up a couple, think it is near 16 or 15 minus the PPE and Triple EEE.


Ok bring a few to little sahara this weekend,I need to borrow one :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Might be a bit late, can you guys wait for me by chance? :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Had some time today to get this new pilot out and start the process of tear down and listing what is needed, what can be improved and what is wrong. First things first, the front bumper, it is a Hondaline OEM but us has several issues, it is bent, has been welded several times already. It was removed. The floor tub is damaged, the right front fender damaged, the plastics overall have issues and in time will be replaced. The Pilot at some point in it's life had Long travel front suspension on it, the mounts are all still there for it and the tub is cut out for the stops.
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
More;
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There is a spot on the front tub by the upper a arm mount that seems to have a repair to it.
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
More noticed items, rear suspension arm bent on right side:
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Trans seal leaking usual bad seal:
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Ok lets go to the powerplant, this Engine is a 500 conversion Engine that is currently running either a 102c or a 107-the previous owner thinks it is a 107 but I think he might be incorrect. The carb is a Mikuni flatside I do not know what size it is with an intake I am unfamiliar with, I have no idea as too reeds, bore size, hrs on the top or bottom end, piston size. The pipe as well I need help on, dunno if it is a CR 500 pipe or mass produced pipe from back in the day like Paul Turner, etc. Any help on the intake, carb and pipe is appreciated!
Current compression cold was a shade above 170psi cold, oil drained out dirty but clean no metal. Some issues noticed here as well, we will list them as we post in the thread.
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Exhaust pipe, any ideas on make?
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More pictures of the Engine, some skillbilly never sealed the pipe to the flange and it has been leaking for sometime, I am also concerned that the jug gasket is also not leaking hard to tell with all of the spooge on the cases from the bad seal:
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View from the rear, do the 500 conversions always have this much of a bend in the intake? Also noticed that the seal from carb to the rear carb boot is not sealed properly:
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Custom weld job for the fuel pump air supply, is this a general way they did it back in the day?
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Another picture of the bend in the intake boot for the carb:
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
General pictures of the Pilot:
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Bead lock rims- older set:
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
ATVR fuel cell, needs to be cleaned out, fuel inside was bad, very bad and it has some rust, I will send it to a local rad shop see if they can flush it out.
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3157
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Looks like a great project is ahead.

Maybe I can help with some questions.

THe pipe looks to be the one ATVR had Power Pros make for them to install on the 500 conversions but in pic 29 the expansion chambers flange doesnt look to mate with the exhaust flange very well??

Is there any "ATVR" engravings on the jug or head?

The intake looks different from my ATVR's but still could have been fabbed by them. The carbs angle you asked about is angling towards the opposite from the factory Honda CR500 motorcycle so I think that bend is in the "boot" and maybe for the air cleaner "set up" to fit?? It should run straight back so that the carb can attach to the factory Pilot airbox boot.
The pulse outlet on the jug for the fuel pump looks like my ATVR jug.
Is that the Pilot radiator?

You can still see the bump steer tabs!

I wonder if the Pilot was used for racing since it has a Fire extingusher or maybe just a smart rider attached it :shock:

If the trans has been leaking might want to check the torque clutch for slippage, I bought a PIlot where the PO ran the trans dry and I had to replace the cork plates in the torque clutch.

The ATVR heads I have seen have the two outlets cut off and one welded in like yours.

Keihin made the PWK39 so not sure about your carb but if you remove the carb and intake don't be surprised when you see the some of the starter ground down so that the intake and reed cage can fit :shock:

that's all I can think of for now...


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
stix wrote:
Looks like a great project is ahead.

Maybe I can help with some questions.

THe pipe looks to be the one ATVR had Power Pros make for them to install on the 500 conversions but in pic 29 the expansion chambers flange doesnt look to mate with the exhaust flange very well??

yes correct the exhaust flange to chamber is not sealed at all, it spews out goo from running way rich,if I need to replace the flange is that a ATVR only flange or readily available for like CR500 jug?

Is there any "ATVR" engravings on the jug or head?

None I can see, usually they engrave it big and large,nothing I can see other then a large "a" that was written on the head with pen or something. I will be taking the Engine out and sending it to Hoser for a CSI in the coming months if he has time, he has 2 engines right now from me he rebuilding

The intake looks different from my ATVR's but still could have been fabbed by them. The carbs angle you asked about is angling towards the opposite from the factory Honda CR500 motorcycle so I think that bend is in the "boot" and maybe for the air cleaner "set up" to fit?? It should run straight back so that the carb can attach to the factory Pilot airbox boot.
The pulse outlet on the jug for the fuel pump looks like my ATVR jug.
Is that the Pilot radiator?

Yes, Pilot radiator with all the stock OEM sensors

You can still see the bump steer tabs!

The stops are bent were the bolt screws in but they can be fixed no problem. I might install a YODA kit on this in the front and a set of DC rear LT SHOCK BRACKETS with Fox Airs in rear.

I wonder if the Pilot was used for racing since it has a Fire extingusher or maybe just a smart rider attached it :shock:

The previous owner was paralyzed from the waist down, the seller did the wrenching on it, it has a water system on it that provided water on demand to drink when a switch is activated, so I am thinking it was raced somewhere in the Utah area at some point

If the trans has been leaking might want to check the torque clutch for slippage, I bought a PIlot where the PO ran the trans dry and I had to replace the cork plates in the torque clutch.

The ATVR heads I have seen have the two outlets cut off and one welded in like yours.

I will take some detailed pictures of the Engine after cleaning, it is totally covered with spooge and such but again so far nothing ATVR on anything

Keihin made the PWK39 so not sure about your carb but if you remove the carb and intake don't be surprised when you see the some of the starter ground down so that the intake and reed cage can fit :shock:

Was that the norm back in the day? Is there anything else that owners did on these conversions to the Engine or frame I should look for Stix

that's all I can think of for now...


Ok thanks!! Any ideas on compressions and bore sizes etc on these engines? I am curious as too the current compression readings if that's low or high? The pistons are still avaialble if needed from Wiseco by chance?


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3157
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Mudbogger wrote:
stix wrote:
Looks like a great project is ahead.

Maybe I can help with some questions.

THe pipe looks to be the one ATVR had Power Pros make for them to install on the 500 conversions but in pic 29 the expansion chambers flange doesnt look to mate with the exhaust flange very well??

yes correct the exhaust flange to chamber is not sealed at all, it spews out goo from running way rich,if I need to replace the flange is that a ATVR only flange or readily available for like CR500 jug?

The flange is still available and according to Partzillas part number, 18352-KA5-691, the flange will fit all year CR500s(NOTE: paragraph I wrote at bottom of this post)

Now is the flange correct for the CR500 or is the expansion chamber flange too big, My pipe's expansion chamber flange measures right about 2-3/16" ID, so the cylinder's exhaust flange would be just under that measurement, you can measure both and compare to my measurement to see which is wrong. According to CR500 motorcycle riders, the CR500's engines have a tendancy to vibrate quite a bit and break the springs that hold the expansion chamber to cylinder exhaust flange ( I also have experienced this), maybe yours has been loose and wallered out the expansion chambers flange causing it to be extremely loose??



Is there any "ATVR" engravings on the jug or head?

None I can see, usually they engrave it big and large,nothing I can see other then a large "a" that was written on the head with pen or something. I will be taking the Engine out and sending it to Hoser for a CSI in the coming months if he has time, he has 2 engines right now from me he rebuilding

I bought my ATVR LT pilot used and it came with two heads with ATV carved in them. I forget the cc but one was for pump gas and the other for race gas (maybe A and B and the A on your head is for pump gas??), but the one for pump gas still gave me over 180lbs static compression , too high for pump gas, also Hoser doesnt like ATV heads so I went with the CR500 Pro Designs cool head, theyre still available new on Ebay, it comes with a 63cc and 66cc interchangeable dome, got my compression down to 165 with the smaller dome.

The intake looks different from my ATVR's but still could have been fabbed by them. The carbs angle you asked about is angling towards the opposite from the factory Honda CR500 motorcycle so I think that bend is in the "boot" and maybe for the air cleaner "set up" to fit?? It should run straight back so that the carb can attach to the factory Pilot airbox boot.
The pulse outlet on the jug for the fuel pump looks like my ATVR jug.
Is that the Pilot radiator?

Yes, Pilot radiator with all the stock OEM sensors

You can still see the bump steer tabs!

The stops are bent were the bolt screws in but they can be fixed no problem. I might install a YODA kit on this in the front and a set of DC rear LT SHOCK BRACKETS with Fox Airs in rear.

One of my stops was broke loose from ATVR's crappy weld job?!?

I wonder if the Pilot was used for racing since it has a Fire extingusher or maybe just a smart rider attached it :shock:

The previous owner was paralyzed from the waist down, the seller did the wrenching on it, it has a water system on it that provided water on demand to drink when a switch is activated, so I am thinking it was raced somewhere in the Utah area at some point

If the trans has been leaking might want to check the torque clutch for slippage, I bought a PIlot where the PO ran the trans dry and I had to replace the cork plates in the torque clutch.

The ATVR heads I have seen have the two outlets cut off and one welded in like yours.

I will take some detailed pictures of the Engine after cleaning, it is totally covered with spooge and such but again so far nothing ATVR on anything

!!spooge spooge spooge!!

Keihin made the PWK39 so not sure about your carb but if you remove the carb and intake don't be surprised when you see the some of the starter ground down so that the intake and reed cage can fit :shock:

Was that the norm back in the day? Is there anything else that owners did on these conversions to the Engine or frame I should look for Stix

Ill keep your post in mind and when and if I think of anything else related to the LT CR500 conversion Ill be sure to post it here, some notes below to help you find parts.

that's all I can think of for now...


Ok thanks!! Any ideas on compressions and bore sizes etc on these engines? I am curious as too the current compression readings if that's low or high? The pistons are still avaialble if needed from Wiseco by chance?


Oh that reminds me, if the jug was ported (exhaust ports too wide), you will HAVE to use Wiseco, Hoser can verify this and YES lots of parts still available for the 500 jug, that bike was made for many years :-) !! Including Wiseco, Pro X and Vertex pistons. I think my bore was an 89.5?? Compression will be same as the Pilots Engine, we still want to see 160 or 165 to use pump gas depending on who you ask.


Something to keep in mind when ordering parts from Partzilla or Honda dealer and I have to remind myself of this...The CR500 had two part numbers for the cylinders, one PN for 87-89 and one PN for 89 and up. Head gaskets as well. Im not sure of the physical differences(I think tuning, maybe different porting or gaskets cause I read that some years had more power) but i know that parts for the 87-89 and parts for the 89 and up, a lot of parts are interchangeable, in other words if a part shows unavailable for the 87 to 89, the 95 part might still be available and fit perfectly, probably the same part just a different part number, the PO of my conversion told me I had the 89 jug so I never had to research on how to determine the year of the jug, maybe find a part number on it??


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Big changes coming for this Pilot is the coming months,Engine coming out for a CSI first and foremost, then well,hmmmmmm- you are going to wait and see what I do on this sweetheart :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3157
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Mudbogger wrote:
Big changes coming for this Pilot is the coming months,Engine coming out for a CSI first and foremost, then well,hmmmmmm- you are going to wait and see what I do on this sweetheart :-)


Tease tease tease


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Oh the pain. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Had a spot to work on this pilot, it has to be torn down for the next step in the rebuilding. First thing noticed it will need a spot on the frame fixed-how this damage got here is a mystery.Looks like it is twisted to me, I will have it fixed, the damage is on the front tube by the Beard seat mount.Some better pictures here:


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Next step, removed all the plastics on the pilot, the right front fender is bad, the left rear is in poor shape, the ATVR rear full skid is pretty beat up and bent-it may not be reused as all the mounts are either torn or holding on by a thread. Floor tub is cracked in 2 spots. The ATVR desert fuel tank is pretty bad as well inside, it appears to me somebody tried some type of solvent for rust and never cleaned it out properly, I will either take it to local rad shop to see if the can clean it out without damaging the internals or do the "home method" of electrolysis( think that is what we call it here?). I forgot to take pictures of the tank, I have never owned 1 before.
The front end at some point again has had LT suspension in it, here is better picture of the whats left, the bump stops are bent up pretty good but can be reused if needed :-) :-) :-) good thing for me !!!


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Now to the Engine. It still has pretty solid compression it in, but as everybody knows I always rebuild mine engines in new arrivals here, and this is no change in that plan. I started by taking look at things, taking pictures as the 500 conversion is new too me, noticed this right off the bat:

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As to why people used the wrong nuts and bolts for stuff drives me nuts, and to top it off they were only hand tight, these will be replaced with OEM bolts and nuts that are THE RIGHT SIZE!.
aLSO IN THIS PICTURE YOU GET AN IDEA JUST HOW BAD THE PIPE TO EXHAUST FLANGE WAS LEAKING,I am actually happy it was run rich, reminds me of the old Harescrambles 350 I bought back in the day, that thing was so rich I could have used the goo off the Engine to re mix a gallon of fuel in!


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Stripped down the carb,desert filter kit- intakes btw I will post are not correct, I must seek advice on what was/is used as these tubes are way overkill and poorly kade, it looks like rubber hose from a Cat loader that was cut down (poorly might I add) and is way too thick for the intake of carb.Also I do not ride deserts and hate the filter setup, will look into getting a stock box and prefilter set up on it after alterations(there I said it-you get the hint).
Now here is a geat question, and again bear with me please I have no knowledge on the 500 engines, the Engine is running a 102c, it comes really really close to the jug, I did not stick a feeler guage in there but as you will see in the pictures it is close, is this normal?


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500 conversion pilot 007.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
AFter removal of the clutch, which BTW took a bunch off time as the threads on the clutch were totally rusted and I had to chase them several time then do the Hoser method of putting grease into the hole to get it to pop off I went to the back for trans to Engine plates removal, and as usual some skillbilly had done it again, I noticed immediately the plates were not properly put on the dowels, the bolts would not even pull out of the cases-WHY PEOPLE DO THIS DRIVES ME NUTS AGAIN!


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 Post subject: Re: 500 conversion pilot
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:46 am 
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Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
Engine out, noticed the intake for carb is way close to the starter, again did not have time to check with feeler gaueg but it also appears to have shaved just a bit on the starter casing itself, is this normal? Is this a standard 500 intake? It has extensive porting done to it.


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