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 Post subject: Project Pilot #3 Odykids
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Will start a new thread on Project Pilot #3 which is Odykid's old ride, I should have just bought the whole thing but I didn't so here we go on another Pilot build.I purchased the frame, suspension and a boatload of parts from Odykid and plan on building another nice restore job.
Sent the frame out to the painter last week, got it back today and as usual I forgot the camera, will post pictures later.
the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) for this is currently at Hoser's getting a rebuild heres a link to it:

http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.ph ... 8&start=12

I'll be posting the general build up on this ride throughout-I am in no rush for it as I have Pilotnuts currently here being fixed up and I also have my other Pilot at Hosers too, so it will be a slow rebuild here.I have purchased many items for the upgrades on this ride and will document them here as well.
As a footnote I am looking for a trans for this ride-if you have one please PM me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
YODA called front end kit is on it's way-I'll post the install of it when it arrives.Need to order a set of FOX AIRS for it as well.Rear arms will be stock with the urethane bushing kits installed-I'll prime and paint these myself as my powderocater is totally overridden with parts for me from my 350 stock!!!!
I will be speaking to my new painter about possibly doing small items for me like battery boxes and arms, if the price is good I'll just send them over to him as he is in my area and I'm really impressed with the job he did on the frame.i handwashed the wire harness with a toothbrush and have it drying currently and well as some other smaller electrical items-will be installed in a week or 2 as painter said to leave it be for a spell.
I have Pilotnuts old ride in pieces currently so I can work on this for a while anyway----[/b]

SOME PICTURES OF PILOTNUTS OLD RIDE CURRENTLY BEING WORKED ON:


Attachments:
File comment: rebuilt cv's with new boots, new wheel bearings and seals, new ball joint and replaced rear arms,new brakes,e brake cable,battery,new shocks rebuilt by Hoser,new springs and bolts
Odykid Pilot 001.jpg
Odykid Pilot 001.jpg [ 1.39 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: took driven out and serviced this as well-was not shfting properly.
Odykid Pilot 002.jpg
Odykid Pilot 002.jpg [ 1.37 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: Spindle bent-needs replacement-urethane bushings installed and used arms installed as well,new rebuilt shock -OEM spindle on way
Odykid Pilot 009.jpg
Odykid Pilot 009.jpg [ 1.35 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: nerfs taken off, plastics removed for replacements,total servicing of motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and trans done,brake fluid replaced as well
Odykid Pilot 008.jpg
Odykid Pilot 008.jpg [ 1.45 MiB | Viewed 1367 times ]
File comment: finished and ready for a ride
DSC00036.JPG
DSC00036.JPG [ 1.42 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) looking sporty huh?
DSC00039.JPG
DSC00039.JPG [ 1.31 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
YODA kit is here-looks real sweet with the new upgrades.Hopefully I'll be able to start soon on this PROJECT-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Did some small prep work today on frame-retapped all the holes, installed all the rubber grommets,clips, and steering column in frame today,ran the rear brake line-small stuff but all needed


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 Post subject: Yoda kit
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 70
Mudbogger wrote:
YODA kit is here-looks real sweet with the new upgrades.Hopefully I'll be able to start soon on this PROJECT-


I just posted about this in another thread...Can you give me more info on the yoda kit? What exactly does it consist of and what does it improve?
Thanks
Redman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
as posted in other thread:

viewtopic.php?t=3810

heres a installed view as well as a little description from Hoser on it's performance:

viewtopic.php?t=4460&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=84

PAGE 8 in thread

heres yoda's site for the kit:

http://hallmaso.home.insightbb.com/index.htm


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 Post subject: Yoda
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Posts: 70
The link to Yoda's kit doesn't give many specifics as to what it cost,or atleast i didn't see any...How much travel does it add to the front suspension? Also,what effect does moving the front wheels forward give? Does the longer wheel base make it turn better?
Redman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
http://home.insightbb.com/html-jsp/phot ... onID=30256

http://home.insightbb.com/html-jsp/phot ... onID=30256

Suspension systems can be purchased 3 ways:

A-arms only. $499.00
(Ball Joints & Rod Ends purchased separately)

A-arms w/Ball Joints, Rod Ends & Bushings. $789.00

A-arms w/Ball Joints, Rod Ends, Bushings & Bolt-on Long Travel Upper Brackets. $919.00

E-mail : tomhall@insightbb.com

From Yoda:

Here are some answers to various posts over the last few days:


Tire Size – like Hoser, I'd recommend stock tires and wheels. Larger ones transmit more impact back through the steering wheel because the wheels have higher leverage ratios relative to stock. Smaller wheels tend to get swallowed in holes and have less sidewall to soak up impacts so the shocks have to do a lot more work. Wider tires with bigger contact area take more work to turn and hold an unstable line. It all comes down to the kind of riding you plan to do.

Scub or Scrub Angle – Caster angle change as the a-arm system travels through its stroke. The pivot points on the frame are not altered by just adding the longer arms. Additional stroke from longer shocks can introduce added scrub, but the Pilot A-arm system is a relatively square 4 bar link arrangement so you would not expect to see major increase. I ran the arms up and down without shocks several times to review clearance issues and did not notice any major variation – maybe a few degrees. I will plan to measure the full range next time I set a front end up on a frame.

Bump steer concern - I don't think extending the A-arms and tie rods outboard 2" will affect the FL400's tendency to bump steer with any degree of significance. The geometric relationship between the tie rods and A-arms that affects bump steer is established in design by their relative connections to the steering knuckle. The steering knuckle is the forging that the wheel spindle, brake backing plate, tie rod and ball joints bolt up to. Extending the a-arms does not change that relationship. My big concern is how radically toe changes through the stroke and I don't know if both issues are collectively are being considered bump steer. Even a stock Pilot shows a significant toe-in at full shock extension compared to full shock compression where the front end is toed-out. This is because the a-arms and tie rods don't share the same pivot points, but have to run through a similar arc. The way to deal with this is to establish a good stock toe setting at the expected running ride height. Since there are many different weight riders, shock, spring and a-arm configurations, establishing a uniform way to set toe is difficult. I worked through a camber, caster and toe setting procedure on both of Stoneman's Pilots which, I think, worked quite well. Those Pilots are in Georgia now being tested and if we get favorable results, I'll share the process.

Rear system - I have nothing in development as of yet, but recognize there is a need. A lot depends on how well received this project is. In my observation, the rear could use stiffer springs, less rebound damping and longer travel.


Caster and Camber set up tricks - As I mentioned above, I worked up an alignment process and used it on both of Stoneman's Pilots. We raced one at the Harris Metals race and it tracked very straight even at high speeds on rough terrain – that Pilot won the race too. The other Pilot is being tested this week at Durhamtown and I'll work with Stoneman to report on that set up soon.

Also, thanks for the comments regarding this type of front end set up and the history too. I'll look forward to reading your comments after the a-arms get run through the wringer.


Bump steer kit – not required. See my comments to Adnoh and Hoser's comments from 12/24 about bump steer. This set up is very close to what Hoser and Stoneman have been using for quite some time. They are, however, heavier duty, more repeatable in construction and can be used with a number of different long or standard travel shock absorbers.

Tie rods hitting the frame – This is the big design dilemma for getting extra travel in the front end of a Pilot. Try to bolt an 18” long shock in place of the stock one and you see the ride height increases several inches and the tie rods bottom hard against the lower frame rails. One way to get around this is to cut off the stock upper shock mount, fabricate a new one and weld it in place several inches higher on the frame -not a big deal if you are a good welder. I was asked to develop a bolt on upper bracket kit. The design process I used was to first establish the very lowest an a-arm can travel before tie rod contact with the frame. That is, by the way, full lock left and right. Then, knowing the extended length of long travel Fox and Bilstein shocks, I worked up a new upper shock mount that bolts to the existing (no welding required) and provides new upper shock mount point about 2.5” higher than stock. And, it all had to fit under the stock Pilot fenders so they don't have to modified. The upper bracket requires one 13/32” hole be drilled in the stock upper mount for a through bolt – but that's the only frame mod required. You could go back to stock very quickly.

Longer brake lines – not required. Several like a-arm sets kits have been in the field for several years with no brake line changes. The only major design difference in this long travel set up is that these upper brackets will bolt on and those already in use had to have the upper shock mount welded in place.


One other thing:
Tie Rod extending - The process I use to extend tie rods mimics the tie rod sleeving mod Hoser describes on his site. But, I also have to weld a 2” section of tie rod in place before sleeving the tie rods.

I hope this info is helpful.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
mohoser



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 8944
Location: Chicago
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My YODA arms are HERE!

They look good, almost a copy of my old arms made by redrider? If they are the same only with the corrected ball joint angles these are a 10!

I will know more once they are installed adjusted and tested so stay tuned for updates, http://pilotodyssey.com/PO.....php?t=3825

My current arms are leaps and bounds ahead of the stock setup, I first added my FOX airs to to the stock arms this was a huge improvement over the stock shocks, I used the same size FOX airs as my buddies used on their Pilots with the LT arms so if I ever wanted to go LT and get 12" travel I didnt have to buy more shocks, using the FOX on the stock arms required me to change the upper shock mount, adding the +2 " arms was another HUGE improvement, now you can feel the rear needs longer travel, I will probably never change the rear other than its current mods of adding the FOX air in the rear, I like the stock width, keeping the front narrower than the rear keeps the handling perfect, stable and predictable
re info:

from my notes I have here the reported travel is 14"--did you read the posted links all the way by chance there as much information there I have found, explainantions of how it is built with exact dimensions too.


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 Post subject: arms
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:14 am 
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Posts: 70
Mudbogger wrote:
mohoser



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 8944
Location: Chicago
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My YODA arms are HERE!

They look good, almost a copy of my old arms made by redrider? If they are the same only with the corrected ball joint angles these are a 10!

I will know more once they are installed adjusted and tested so stay tuned for updates, http://pilotodyssey.com/PO.....php?t=3825

My current arms are leaps and bounds ahead of the stock setup, I first added my FOX airs to to the stock arms this was a huge improvement over the stock shocks, I used the same size FOX airs as my buddies used on their Pilots with the LT arms so if I ever wanted to go LT and get 12" travel I didnt have to buy more shocks, using the FOX on the stock arms required me to change the upper shock mount, adding the +2 " arms was another HUGE improvement, now you can feel the rear needs longer travel, I will probably never change the rear other than its current mods of adding the FOX air in the rear, I like the stock width, keeping the front narrower than the rear keeps the handling perfect, stable and predictable
re info:

from my notes I have here the reported travel is 14"--did you read the posted links all the way by chance there as much information there I have found, explainantions of how it is built with exact dimensions too.



So am I reading correctly that you are or can get 14" of travel with this kit?How much is stock? 6 or 7 maybe? Did you ever get them installed and tested? What about the "redrider" arms you mentioned? Are they still available?
Redman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Washed all the clips and assorted brake line clamps, wire harness,front and rear brake lines and all the electrical cables for the frame tonight-I'll retape and allow dry for a couple of days.
I installed the YODA KIT in the frame yesterday and of coarse I didnt have the camera-I got a new one so I'll post at the next session I have.Currently awaiting top cage and Engine,trans as well.Installed the steering column and retapped all the mounting holes in the frame as well.


Attachments:
Odykid Pilot 001.jpg
Odykid Pilot 001.jpg [ 1.41 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
Odykid Pilot 002.jpg
Odykid Pilot 002.jpg [ 1.4 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
Odykid Pilot 003.jpg
Odykid Pilot 003.jpg [ 1.41 MiB | Viewed 1367 times ]
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 Post subject: pilot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:58 am 
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Posts: 70
Looks nice....It's amazing how much a good cleaning and a little elbow grease can make...I would love to do the same to mine...It needs it...The previous owner didn't take much time to do those things....
Redman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
some pictures of the project-I installed the YODA LT kit as previously posted-cables, wire harness,front brake lines, and numerous rubber grommetts as well.


Attachments:
File comment: frame with LT kit installed minus shock
Odykid Pilot 003.jpg
Odykid Pilot 003.jpg [ 1.39 MiB | Viewed 1366 times ]
File comment: column in with brake lines,cables and ignition
Odykid Pilot 007.jpg
Odykid Pilot 007.jpg [ 1.39 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: view of LT kit with optional LT bracket.
Odykid Pilot 005.jpg
Odykid Pilot 005.jpg [ 1.37 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:18 am 
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Location: Upland, Ca
looks good keep up the good work


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Thanks-I'll be progressing slowly on this as we are expecting 12-16 inches of snow here today/tonight.
Pilot money coming in baby!! -::


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Have gotten a ton of parts from SERVICE HONDA for this project-as well as a trans & top cage.Pictures to follow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Posts: 1037
Location: CT
Hey mud, just curoius as to how much the trans and top cage was from honda.
Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:38 am 
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Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
King Kx wrote:
Hey mud, just curoius as to how much the trans and top cage was from honda.
Thanks


Trans and top cage was bought privately, I did try Honda but they are discontinued.I'll have my painter sandblast and paint the cage-trans will be cleaned.I did however get the stock OEM reflectors for the frame with rubbers, which I was surprised arent discontinued.werid huh?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Got some SERVICE HONDA goodies in for this project:


Attachments:
File comment: new parts are so nice huh?
DSC00040.JPG
DSC00040.JPG [ 1.45 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: among others here-reflectors and rubbers
DSC00041.JPG
DSC00041.JPG [ 1.43 MiB | Viewed 1368 times ]
File comment: labels, nuts and bolts for trans,gas tank items as well
DSC00042.JPG
DSC00042.JPG [ 1.35 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: roll cage bars, mirrors, battery box and STARTER
DSC00043.JPG
DSC00043.JPG [ 1.39 MiB | Viewed 1366 times ]
File comment: NEW HEAD NET
DSC00044.JPG
DSC00044.JPG [ 1.35 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: bolts and gas cap
DSC00045.JPG
DSC00045.JPG [ 1.37 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
more goodies from my good friends at SERVICE:


Attachments:
File comment: Trans plates-fuel pump,air inlet clamps, motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) mounts
DSC00046.JPG
DSC00046.JPG [ 1.36 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: still more, bolts and nuts for motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? ))
DSC00047.JPG
DSC00047.JPG [ 1.39 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: bolts for trans plates-with nuts
DSC00048.JPG
DSC00048.JPG [ 1.4 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
File comment: last of it-finally!!!!
DSC00049.JPG
DSC00049.JPG [ 1.38 MiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
nice job on the project so far..which parts source has said that the roll cage has been discontinued??
thanks..GAPILOT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:09 am 
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Location: New Jersey
SERVICE & HILLSIDE both said they were discontinued as my local HONDA DEALER did.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Spent today cleaning and prepping the rear upper and lower arms for paint-installed the rear bushing kits in the uppers as well, took some time as you have to cut each bushing and sleeve exactly to fit the arm.Well worth it in the end.Pictures to follow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
THANKS..for the info..mud..GAPILOT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
F.Y.I.//power sports pro sttd;" two pilot roll bars are available..$449.00 each..for anybody needing one"..did not call service honda..maybe available there at a better price..


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