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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22507
Location: Chicago
Plenty of silicone sealer inside the Engine, I am sure its a "High Performance Silicone" probably has some carbon fiber in it too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
With the flywheel removed you can see they took the balancer drive gear and machined all the teeth off then reinstalled.


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File comment: Gobs of silicone all over the inside of the balancer case
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22507
Location: Chicago
Crank cases split, no shortage of silicone found here.

Why have your Engine "ported" then block most its flow with silicone when you seal it up, I mean ATV Racing charges 450.00 for porting then you gob it together with silicone, what were you thinking?

If the Engine wont seal with just the gaskets then something is wrong and you need to fix it before you assemble the Engine, if the cases are smooth and flat, clean then no sealer is required, if sealer was required they would show you in the manual and give you a part number for the sealer.

Silicone homo ALERT


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Crank removed, moisture was migrating into the Engine through the clutch side crank seal.

Crank was rebuilt at one time can see the rod was replaced then they welded the crank.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
ALL of the dowel pins are missing.

The 2 dowels pins for the balancer case MISSING

The 2 dowels for the crank cases MISSING

The 2 dowels for the cylinder MISSING

You can see dried silicone in the holes where the dowels are suppose to be!

Maybe he used some high tech silicone that also replaces dowels?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Location: Chicago
So far this is the most molested Pilot I have ever seen, mistake after mistake was made.

I will work up a parts list but here is a few things off the top of my head I know will be needed so you can start scrounging.

Add to your battery box parts list.

Both Engine mount plates, at least 4 bolts and 4 nuts, 4 dowel pins 2 for the Engine 2 for the trans.

Front rubber Engine mounts are trashed because the Engine was run with the rear Engine mounts loose.

Will work up a more complete list for Engine later, gotta hone the cylinder and measure the piston is a 82mm not holding my breath another piston can be used might have to sleeve cylinder.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
So far this is the most molested Pilot I have ever seen, mistake after mistake was made.

I will work up a parts list but here is a few things off the top of my head I know will be needed so you can start scrounging.

Add to your battery box parts list.

Both Engine mount plates, at least 4 bolts and 4 nuts, 4 dowel pins 2 for the Engine 2 for the trans.

Front rubber Engine mounts are trashed because the Engine was run with the rear Engine mounts loose.

Will work up a more complete list for Engine later, gotta hone the cylinder and measure the piston is a 82mm not holding my breath another piston can be used might have to sleeve cylinder.


Some deal I got huh? I knew it had issues, but geez!!!! oh well, I love it!!!
I have a complete set of mounting plates and nuts/bolts here.
I have some of the dowels here,will get the others needed.
I do have a fresh sleeve here Hoser with Piston and ring kit.
I also have the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) I just took out of my NY Pilot -perhaps it can be rebuilt and used instead? This current motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) seems better for parts?
What are your thoughts Hoser?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 am 
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Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Oh my gosh scary stuff, that really stinks.

Very sorry for you buddy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Oh no worries. Any time I buy a pilot these days they always have troubles. With Hoser's help and my checkbook it will be good to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Good stuff, indeed. Reading through a ton of these CSI's is what finally convinced me to do some CSI work of my own. Too risky.

For the love of silicone sealer, man!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22507
Location: Chicago
This Engine is still usable just need freshened up.

You have another cylinder here that also needs a sleeve I can pick the best of the two and send to Speedchaser you can send piston rings sleeve to him let him install ?

Below is a parts list to rebuild Pilot Engine bottom end of the Engine, I already have the right crank case bearing, you sent me two of the bearings I used one on the last Engine I rebuilt for you.

Right case oil seal 91201-402-015
Right crank case seal 91203-HE0-003
Left crank case seal 91204-HE0-003
Right crank case bearing 91033-HE0-005 (I have one of these here)
Left crank case bearing 91032-HE0-005
Engine gasket kit 061A0-HE0-000
Reed cage gasket 14132-KAE-000
Need 2 Right case dowels 94301-10160 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 2 Crank case dowel pin 90701-HE0-000 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 2 Cylinder dowels 94301-12200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 4 BIG dowel pin for Engine mount plate 94301-14200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))


If you want to fix the water pump option on this machine you will need the following part$

13355-HE0-000 Gear, Balancer Drive (43T)
13350-HE0-000 Weight, Balancer (43T)
91002-HE0-004 Bearing, Radial Ball
Need 2 of these 90028-MA6-000 Bolt, Special Flange
Need 2 of these 91012-HE0-000 Plate, Bearing Setting
19215-KA3-710 Impeller, Water Pump
19217-PA5-003 Seal, Mechanical
90201-413-000 Nut, Cap 89-90
90441-706-000 Washer, Sealing
90454-KA4-000 Washer
19241-HE0-000 Shaft, Water Pump
91001-KA4-003 Bearing, Radial Ball
91201-148-003 Oil Seal

I think the above is a complete list I still need to dig out the sealer he used to seal off the water pump to ensure the cases were not damaged in the water pump area.

If this was my Engine I would not install the balancer and the water pump I would rebuild the rest of the Engine and reinstall run as is.

Years ago when I was at Randy's we talked about running a Pilot Engine without the balancer he told me about a guy that actually did this and used a electric pump, maybe this is the guy? Anyways Randy said it ran great and accelerated really quick, pulled hard out of the corners, CALL RANDY ask him about this mod see what he thinks today.

Removing the water pump and the balancer was the next Secret Squirrel mod I was going to try on my Pilot but I skipped ahead and installed the sled Engine before I got the chance to try this.


Back to your parts do you have any of the rubber Engine mounts used are ok these the rubber flange on the sides was damaged, post a pic of what you have.


Not a complete list but a good start hard telling what I will run into as I continue to look over the Pilot


Lost ALL MY NOTES on this Pilot and what we discussed what all am I suppose to do besides the obvious how soon you wanting this Pilot and the PPE back at your place I assume before the riding season starts? Reason why I ask is my son is talking about building a exoskeleton roll cage for his Toyota truck thing he built this means I will probably be busing a tubing bender whilst he is learning to use it might have him build us some bumpers nerfs if your interested also will look into skids and hoods.


Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
"You have another cylinder here that also needs a sleeve I can pick the best of the two and send to Speedchaser you can send piston rings sleeve to him let him install ?"

I will call Speed in the AM and ask him if he will do this. I have a fresh sleeve and piston kit here already! I will get back to you ASAP on this.
The parts list I will call SERVICE tomorrow and see if they are still available. Did I see a posting on the board for seals from another manufacturer pre-hacking? I agree run the Engine with no balancer it interests me to see in fact if it runs better and pulls harder.
On the things I had wanted looked at on the LT, the thing has a bent suspension arm in front and some in rear, and the rear welding was poor as well on the LT kit especially in the rear I have been told, as well I was looking at the hiems and the front tie rods and such thinking some were bent?-if you can give it a general once over that would be grand indeed? Shocks as well need rebuild? Stuff like rear driven mods, brakes, bushings and such I can do -if you see something and cannot get to it just list it and I'll handle them here. I am in no rush for them, as you stated before the riding season is great for me!! Iplan on riding the shit out of the PPE 350 odyssey as soon as it gets here-I can ship that out if you need the room when you let me know.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 328
man that Engine looks like it been built by a blind monkey!!! i always thought about running a pilot with a electric pump instead of the mech one......flow could be controlled by DC speed controller (is there one Hoser???)......also would be good to know if there any difference with and without the counter balancer ??????


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
pilotpete1 wrote:
man that Engine looks like it been built by a blind monkey!!!


This the guy????


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
WOW that is just wrong!! I love reading Hoser's CSI's it never ceases to amaze me some of the crazy $hit he finds done to these great machines. Apparently skill billying has no boundrys, you should see some of the crap I find shoved into rusty quarter panels on cars I have done. :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
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Location: New Jersey
Ok Hoser. Here we go on the parts list.
Called SERVICE HONDA TODAY, here is what I got and what is discontinued:UPDATED 3/10/2012

Right case oil seal 91201-402-015 ordered 2 and shipped
Right crank case seal 91203-HE0-003 will send 1 with nitro Engine stuff IN NITRO Engine BOX
Left crank case seal 91204-HE0-003 ordered 2 and shipped
Right crank case bearing 91033-HE0-005 (I have one of these here)you have it so no need to send
Left crank case bearing 91032-HE0-005Delivered to you via Ebay 3/10/2012
Engine gasket kit 061A0-HE0-000discon but I have a set here.shipped
Reed cage gasket 14132-KAE-000ordered 4 /shipped 2
Need 2 Right case dowels 94301-10160 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) ordered 6 shipped 2
Need 2 Crank case dowel pin 90701-HE0-000 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) ordered 6 /shipped 2
Need 2 Cylinder dowels 94301-12200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) ordered 6 /shipped 2
Need 4 BIG dowel pin for Engine mount plate 94301-14200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))ordered 6/shipped 4

I did order the stuff for the balancer as well but will just keep that stuff for stock, I do not want to install it in this Engine. I have a gentleman working on getting me bearings but I still need to find a supplier for them and the seals. Was there a thread on the replacement seals?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Location: St. John, Washington
There was a thread about getting the right crank seals made, but i think it all ended up not happening. If i recall correct the seals were going to be made in china and not the USA and that turned people off on it. I could be wrong. It probably got lost in the hack.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:47 am 
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Location: East Peoria IL
mud - Isn't odyssey salvage selling a set of replacement seals? I thouhgt a couple people here were running them and happy with the performance. If I remeber right the crank seal was only a single lip or maybe it was just not as wide - I could be wrong on that. Call randy and ask.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
rmesser wrote:
mud - Isn't odyssey salvage selling a set of replacement seals? I thouhgt a couple people here were running them and happy with the performance. If I remeber right the crank seal was only a single lip or maybe it was just not as wide - I could be wrong on that. Call randy and ask.


I did not know this, thank very much for the information!! Hoser, you rebuild any motors using Randy's seals by chance?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Hoser, I have everything boxed up and ready to go except the left crank case bearing and right crank case seal. I am trying to locate them currently and might call Randy just to get a set from him for you to CSI.I'll send a replacement right crank bearing as soon as I get them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Maybe work? 42x65x10 instead of 42x65x11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Oil-Shaft-Seal-42-x-65-x-10-42x65x10-Double-Lip-/160476738097?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255d28b231


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Very nice find sir! Hoser, you think we should try it out by chance?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:00 pm 
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Location: East Peoria IL
Is that double lipped? Isn't the double lip more important then the thickness?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:38 am 
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Location: New Jersey
Box of parts sent out to Hoser today minus the discontinued left seal and only 1 new Engine rubber Engine mount.Still trying to get a handle on these bottom end bearings and seals-I have 6 of the NISSAN bearings coming which replace the right side crank case bearing, I have used this bearing in my 2800 Engine with no issues, has probably 20hrs currently.
I have been trying to get a hold of Randy Bridgewater as he has replacement seals and bearings on his site for sale for the FL400 Pilots but to no avail---
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9251


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
I think if you just slap it back together and gob some more silicone on, it should be fine. Maybe if you smear some silicone on the faKe&N it will stop sucking dirt past it?


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