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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I talked to Marv at 4x4 Tuff about doing another batch of long travel axles for the Pilot http://store.4x4tuff.com/po11.html


These axle shafts will be "17.75" inches in length" and will just be the AXLES will NOT include CV's CV boots, clips or anything else.

Older members of PilotOdyssey.com will know that ATV Racing's axles suck balls they are flawed and weak and break personally I don't buy the "bad batch" theory because they have been breaking since I was a Pilot owner in 1995 and BEFORE.

Marv took a ATV Racing axle and had it sent to a lab and had the material analyzed and said they used the wrong steel for this application Marv then bought the correct steel and had a batch of axles made, Cowboy tested these axles, he was breaking a axle almost every ride trip with his highly modified LT Pilot, after installing Marv's axles he never broke another axle, when he bought Marv's axles he had bought a spare set, the next year he sold the spare set.

Others has been testing his axles since the first batch I have never heard of one breaking or heard of a single problem or complaint about the axles.

Anyways Marv is out of axles I contacted him about getting more made he said he would need to take pre orders and get commitments of at least 10 sets of axles before he will have another batch made, he would need a $250.00 deposit up front for each set before he had these made, I will assume Marv has reached the age where he no longer wants to tie up thousands of dollars on parts laying around for a limited production 25 year old machine, cant say I blame him. He noted he will need to make 25 sets to keep the price the same.

If anybody is interested in buying a set let me know here so we can keep tabs on how close we are to the 10 pre order sets. But you need to contact Marv at 1-949-208-1290 and or use his website contact thing http://php.4x4tuff.com/contactus.html

Owners of his axles can give feedback ?

Update
Just got another email from Marv he said it would take about 10-12 days to get the material figure another 10 days or so for machining, heat treating is a over night thing then what ever it takes UPS to ship to the customers, so I would figure about 30 days from when he gets enough pre orders.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
Is this just for the axle shaft or does it include the cv's and stub shaft too?


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
King Kx wrote:
Is this just for the axle shaft or does it include the cv's and stub shaft too?


Great question these are the AXLE SHAFTS ONLY.

This is "axles" not axle assemblies, these do not come with CV's and stub shafts, cv boots, clamps etc. you will receive just the AXLES.

I wish I had some pictures to post but they were all on my old site, I think Afastcar still has a pair of these axles but are probably packed away if not maybe he can take some detailed pictures and post?

How these work is EXACTLY like the ATVR "axles" work you buy the axles and disassemble your axles and replace the Honda axle that is SHORTER than the long travel axles with the LONGER axles.

If you do not have a LT Pilot that uses a axle "17.75" inches in length" then you don't need to buy these if you don't own or are not considering building a long travel Pilot then these axles would just be a paper weight :shock: http://store.4x4tuff.com/po11.html

The current options are to buy the axles from ATVR that has a long history of failures or you can do like Dave-Co does and take 4 stock Pilot axles and weld them together to make 2 LT axles, sooner or later people are going to run out of stock Pilot axles.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Hello "H" Should we ask Dave CO about the length he is using in case it is different or one would like to get a set for future dave CO long travel. If there diff could he vary in length. just a thought


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
Hello "H" Should we ask Dave CO about the length he is using in case it is different or one would like to get a set for future dave CO long travel. If there diff could he vary in length. just a thought



Yes no maybe? These are the replacements for the ATV Racing axles if they are made to a different length then they would not work on a ATVR LT setup?


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I don't think he uses the ATVR axles in his kit---


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:18 am
Posts: 633
Location: Los Angeles
I'm currently using sway aways axles (ATVr). Haven't had a problem with them as of now. I believe the axles are 17 3/4" long. Dave will know exactly how long they are. I would be interested in getting an extra set of axles from Marv if the lengths are the same.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
I would like a set but my funds are a little short. And I have to stop hoarding. SO far my axles are ok but knock on wood....


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
cruz_01 wrote:
I'm currently using sway aways axles (ATVr). Haven't had a problem with them as of now. I believe the axles are 17 3/4" long. Dave will know exactly how long they are. I would be interested in getting an extra set of axles from Marv if the lengths are the same.


I have the sway away axles as well. I have been running them about 2 years and so far so good, but would be interested in another set!


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2147
Location: St. John, Washington
I'd be interested in a set as long as they are the same length as the Dave-Co kit. Not sure what he uses for length


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I as well would be interested in a set for my LT I have a spare one here that came with my LT but I have never measured it, do you need to?


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
I as well would be interested in a set for my LT I have a spare one here that came with my LT but I have never measured it, do you need to?


Yeah measure it if you get a chance.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
17 3/4 total length Hoser


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:26 pm
Posts: 419
Location: North San Diego
Wow. Had no idea the ATVr axles were bad! Not sure if mine are ATVr or other but never had one problem from the axles in seven years :-)


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
I am one that disagrees with Hoser about the new ATVR axles compared to their old axles. I had a ATVR long travel pilot that had the first generation axles and we did break 2 axles and the 500 Engine would blow up all the time. The pilot sat for years then we rebuilt it and the only options at the time were ATVR axles. Neil said that sway away had a bad batch made the first time and since then they were fine. This pilot has since been sold to a friend of mine but the axles have held up perfect from PA trail riding, to GNCC racing, and a few trips to Glamis. You can ask anyone who has rode with us we ride them like they were stollen. I know of many board members running the ATVR axles and I haven't heard of one breaking in 15 years.


The rebuild was in 2008 and still running strong.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4072&hilit=Axle+tool


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
YES the ATV Racing axles are just like the GM ignition switch problem I bet I could muster millions of people to come here and tell me how great they are and how they have never had a ignition switch problem and how they been driving GM's for 50 years never had a problem bla bla lba but don't expect the more than 300 people who are dead to come here tell you how bad they are the ATV Racing axles are just like smoking a pack of cigarettes per day MILLIONS of people will line up to tell you they have suffered no effects from smoking :-)

I watched a local friend drive about 7 hrs to race in WI SODA series break one then played spectator the rest of the 3 day weekend, I watched FL670 break one at Little Sahara, Cowboy use to break them almost every trip he went riding on.

If you guys still rather buy the ATV Racing axles hey no problem just say the word I will delete this post and call Marv and tell him no thanks I was just trying to provide everybody with a product that does not fail the 4x4 Tuff axles has a ZERO FAILURE RATE.

The only reason why I wasted my time contacting Marv about axles is all of the LT axle talk that has been going on lately figured if their was enough looking for long travel axles now would be a good time to put together a buy.

FYI I don't trust anything ATV Racing says to anybody they are about the most dishonest off road company I have ever seen in my lifetime so saying "bad batch" has no meaning other than SUCKER! :-)


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I will pipe in about axles and stay away I mean sway away. I am no fan of sway away dealing with them since the mid 1970s in off road racing. I know personally a couple of people that have worked there for well over 20 years. I have been told by them that sway away is using and doing the proper job these days verses old. That company would for years use BS material and claim and price our torsion bars as 300M for our desert race cars and being the only place for 20 years or longer that was the only place to buy axles and torsion bars for Vw desert cars we bought them and broke them believing they were 300M bars and axles when in truth the bottom rate bars and axles they sold were better than there quote good stuff. I have always lived by the view of sway away if you have not broken one in several outings with there stuff you got lucky and got a good set and stay with it. As a example my 5-1600 baja bug has 20 year old torsion bars in the rear, I would not put a new set in and hope the new set was heat treated right and would not snap when these have proven to last. I have 3 pilots with sway away axles on them that are still going strong, meaning no problems yet that my kids drive harder threw big stuff than most. I have made axles, about 12 pairs and have had no problems on any of them yet, and most have a heck of a lot of riding on them. I believe Marv will make axles that will last, but to change axles just because they are sway away on your pilot is a judgment call on your part. As much as I think Marv will make a great set of axles I cant justify the expense to change them from what I am using that has not given me a problem or a problem to the pilots I have made long travel that are also not losing axles. On new long travel pilots that I would do in the future I would consider using Marvs axles over sway aways, but like I said the axles I make from stock axles have been holding up just fine also. If he would have hit me with this a couple of months ago I would have went his way and I still would if money comes my way on a few sets. Sway away axles to fit standard ATV racing long travel pilots is 17 1/8 from snap ring to snap ring groove which the inner snap ring groove is a bit shallow on new sway away axles that I have used. I take new axles and cut the snap ring grove a bit deeper on my band saw. Cruz had the snap ring come off the inner cv the first night he took his home and I also had my first long travel pilot with new axles have the snap ring come off just moving it around in the garage. All new axles I cut the groove deeper, but the stock axles have no such issues


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
I will pipe in about axles and stay away I mean sway away. I am no fan of sway away dealing with them since the mid 1970s in off road racing. I know personally a couple of people that have worked there for well over 20 years. I have been told by them that sway away is using and doing the proper job these days verses old. That company would for years use BS material and claim and price our torsion bars as 300M for our desert race cars and being the only place for 20 years or longer that was the only place to buy axles and torsion bars for Vw desert cars we bought them and broke them believing they were 300M bars and axles when in truth the bottom rate bars and axles they sold were better than there quote good stuff. I have always lived by the view of sway away if you have not broken one in several outings with there stuff you got lucky and got a good set and stay with it. As a example my 5-1600 baja bug has 20 year old torsion bars in the rear, I would not put a new set in and hope the new set was heat treated right and would not snap when these have proven to last. I have 3 pilots with sway away axles on them that are still going strong, meaning no problems yet that my kids drive harder threw big stuff than most. I have made axles, about 12 pairs and have had no problems on any of them yet, and most have a heck of a lot of riding on them. I believe Marv will make axles that will last, but to change axles just because they are sway away on your pilot is a judgment call on your part. As much as I think Marv will make a great set of axles I cant justify the expense to change them from what I am using that has not given me a problem or a problem to the pilots I have made long travel that are also not losing axles. On new long travel pilots that I would do in the future I would consider using Marvs axles over sway aways, but like I said the axles I make from stock axles have been holding up just fine also. If he would have hit me with this a couple of months ago I would have went his way and I still would if money comes my way on a few sets. Sway away axles to fit standard ATV racing long travel pilots is 17 1/8 from snap ring to snap ring groove which the inner snap ring groove is a bit shallow on new sway away axles that I have used. I take new axles and cut the snap ring grove a bit deeper on my band saw. Cruz had the snap ring come off the inner cv the first night he took his home and I also had my first long travel pilot with new axles have the snap ring come off just moving it around in the garage. All new axles I cut the groove deeper, but the stock axles have no such issues


The group buy is not specifically so people can buy new axles and swap out with their ATV Racing axles the buy is for anybody that wants axles, whether it be for a spare, future or current long travel Pilot builds.

I would be buying a set for spares for my LT Pilot since I have no confidence in the ATV Racing axles if I had the spare set of the 4x4 tuff axles in my shop and was to tear down the current axles with the ATVR axles to service the CV's then yeah I would swap the axles out while it was all apart and the ATVR axles would then become the spares.

400 bux for a set of axles is nothing when you just drove 2500 miles and break one lol being an hr from home and breaking one is no big deal, break out the quad finish the trip fix it after the trip, break one the first week into a 6 week trip I will be wrenching rather than watching TV in the RV :-)

Thanks for the info on sway a way, I know sway a way is a big name that's been around for a long time like ATV Racing, I have no clue on the quality and any of their short comings, no reason why we should be bound to ATVR and sway a way when their is a proven alternative...

My dad was a tool and die maker I remember him telling me horror stories about heat treatment and quality of materials, I witnessed the heat treatment thing personally when I helped him change 2nd gear in his 1955 tractor, the gear broke so we split the tractor removed the gear, he took it to work and duplicated the gear then had the heat treatment department treat it, we installed he hooked the plow to it and plowed for about 300' and the gear snapped again so we had to do the whole process over again because they screwed it up in heat treatment, 30 years later the 2nd gear he made is still working fine.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
I'm in for a set

I'd rather start with a set and if they break, sleeve my stockers

When the count hits 10, do we pull the trigger then, or do we ping Marv now?


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
consol wrote:
I'm in for a set

I'd rather start with a set and if they break, sleeve my stockers

When the count hits 10, do we pull the trigger then, or do we ping Marv now?


I see no use in bugging Marv until we have at least 10 willing to buy a pair.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:34 pm
Posts: 219
If they will fit Dave's kit that I'm almost ready to order I'm in. Chopping stock axles just doesn't seem right to me if we can have a easy to get replacement.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2147
Location: St. John, Washington
I'm in for a set as well.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
I would like to get a set.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
This puts as at about 7 plus one maybe

Anybody in for 2 sets?

Anybody else?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
Hoser, any added interest in this?

Is this something you were heading off, or just an information bulletin for us?

If someone needs to run this one up, please step forward - as everyone else steps back :)

Thanks,


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