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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:02 am 
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Well it looks like I am going to restore this vintage race Odyssey. I have only had it about week so I am still learning what I have. Here is a pic of what I am starting with.

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Is has a Cammex race Engine that runs very well as is. My plans are to strip the car and repaint with Por15. The shocks are being sent to Works to be done over. The fronts will also be sent off to be service. Pretty much all new hardware cables Tires seat ect ect. I want to keep is as original as possible.

At this stage I am ordering parts and need some help. By looking at my gearbox/trans it looks to be from an FL250. But the FL250 is a solid axle right? I need help figuring what's going on. Is this a FL250 trans modified With FL350 axles? Here is a pic.

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Also the radiator is not original. What Radiator would likly be ran in the car back in the 80's?

Hers is some original pics. Perhaps anyone can tell from these.

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This is what I want my car to look like when down.

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Hope to only take about 3 months to complete this build. Stay tuned and thanks for any help.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:08 am 
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The rear setup used on your buggy is an IRS special made.
I know PROATV made kits but I do not know any others.
Maybe someone will chime in on manufactures at the time.

Also, can I steer you away from POR-15?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:21 am 
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I am almost finished with a stock build first gen FL250 and plan to build a competition version similar to yours afterward.
I wish I would of found this one before you did. Congrats.
The radiator I ordered for the future build is shown below. My head is Rand and will atop a modified FL250.
I want to talk to Hoser when the time is right about stroker options or which way would be best to go with my build.
Anyways, finding original parts for your machine will be hard. Do you know if the two gents in the articles from NorCal are still kicking?
That is who I would start with.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:32 am 
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Casey Davis wrote:
I am almost finished with a stock build first gen FL250 and plan to build a competition version similar to yours afterward.
I wish I would of found this one before you did. Congrats.
The radiator I ordered for the future build is shown below. My head is Rand and will atop a modified FL250.
I want to talk to Hoser when the time is right about stroker options or which way would be best to go with my build.
Anyways, finding original parts for your machine will be hard. Do you know if the two gents in the articles from NorCal are still kicking?
That is who I would start with.



I did look on Google for about 20 min each. I found a Stan Cargo racing in Dirt Track in NorCal. Probably him. No contact info yet. The other guy still has last names living in his hometown. Perhaps I will try some phone numbers. I have got the contact info for the writter of the magazine artical. He is a member at threewheelerworld. I send him a PM but he has not been active for 4 weeks.

Thanks for the axle info it helped a lot. I was wanting to replace the U-Joints. Do you think the U-joints are special made or a standard size Joint? The axles are all fine. The U-joints in there now seem fine and will probably work. But I would really like to change them out.

About Por15 I will listen to what you have to say. I used the stuff on my Nova and a few Go Karts I made. I think they stuff is great. Lots of prep work but ends up being much cheaper than Powder coat. And I would say tuffer and easy to touch up as well. I was going to use the Por15 base then top coat with Por15 Hardnose Paint per intructions. I like the fact of having a paint that will be very hard to chip on a buggy.

Again thanks for the help and get back to me on the Por15 thing. I want to do this one right so my ears are all open.

My kids Por15 Go Kart.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:22 am 
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Location: NY
Those u joints look like a home brew, kind of like agricultural implement stuff. Maybe take a trip to tractor supply.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:52 am 
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I don't know about the u-joints sizes. I always seem to want to replace as well but if the splines all look good and they are not wore too much I would just have them barrel or rack plated with yellow dichromate or clear chromate.

POR-15 is a great product. I'm not sure I would use it for any kind of finish work. I don't think rust is much of an issue to worry about with round tubing that thick. Like I said, I don't hate it...I just think of it more as a undercoat type product made for prevention rather that finish.
I don't see male / female tube diameters that powder coating would effect. Everything is welded.
If it was me I would check all the welds, make sure everything is straight and powder coat it.
Just be sure you find a powder coater that does his job well.

CD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:51 am 
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Casey Davis wrote:
I don't know about the u-joints sizes. I always seem to want to replace as well but if the splines all look good and they are not wore too much I would just have them barrel or rack plated with yellow dichromate or clear chromate.

POR-15 is a great product. I'm not sure I would use it for any kind of finish work. I don't think rust is much of an issue to worry about with round tubing that thick. Like I said, I don't hate it...I just think of it more as a undercoat type product made for prevention rather that finish.
I don't see male / female tube diameters that powder coating would effect. Everything is welded.
If it was me I would check all the welds, make sure everything is straight and powder coat it.
Just be sure you find a powder coater that does his job well.

CD


Por-15 has a few top coats that go over the Por15 rust paint. You should lay Por15 down and then top coat with Por15 Chassis Coat or Por15 Hardnose paint. If you use both the Por15 and the Por15 top coat you will have a finish that is rock hard and will not chip. The top coats are not UV sensitive like the Por15 rust paint. I think the Por15 with the top coat looks better than powder coat and is way tuffer. Easy to touchup for latter misshaps/welds. Por25 will also be cheaper than Powder coat.

Swing over to Por15 site and check out there line up of top coats. Whats crazy is I painted a pop can with por15. Let it dry and crushed the can. It did not peel at all. On the go kart above I scraped the curb on the front end with zero chiping. The scuff marks rubbed right out. Amazing stuff. Por15 claims you can beat on it with a hammer and it will not chip.

Back to the project. I picked up a late 80's suzuki LT250 quad radiator. My question is is there a water pump on my Setup? There is not one now and the last owner put that ugly radiator that's on it now. If no pump then what pushes the water up into the radiator? I seen a aftermarket head on ebay with a water pump so I thought I better ask.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:21 am 
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A good powder coater can come close to a single stage paint finish, a better one can rival two stage.
Since powder coating has blown up there has been a ton of people who buy ovens and think they have what it takes.
It's all about talent and know how if you ask me. Some restorations deserve that extra money IMO.

The radiator setup used on most circulate naturally and have no need of a pump.
The technical term used for this has escaped my mind...thermo________ something.






I'll donate a few small misc parts I have if you pay shipping.
I still have a couple finished steering wheels in standard silver, some new cables, a new Engine stop switch, and a new grip set.
I would like to see this one finished.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Location: NY
It's thermo-siphon. The hot coolant rises out if the head to the upper inlet of the rad. The cooled coolant returns to the head out if the bottom if the radiator.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:24 am 
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Casey Davis wrote:
A good powder coater can come close to a single stage paint finish, a better one can rival two stage.
Since powder coating has blown up there has been a ton of people who buy ovens and think they have what it takes.
It's all about talent and know how if you ask me. Some restorations deserve that extra money IMO.

The radiator setup used on most circulate naturally and have no need of a pump.
The technical term used for this has escaped my mind...thermo________ something.






I'll donate a few small misc parts I have if you pay shipping.
I still have a couple finished steering wheels in standard silver, some new cables, a new Engine stop switch, and a new grip set.
I would like to see this one finished.


Really. I will take you up on this offer. But I would like to give you something besides shipping. On my parts list was a steering but just the plastic face that goes on the wheel. what do you meen by finished steering wheels in standard silver? The cables and switch for sure. The seat you mention is that from the 80's or something newer? I want to keep this one period correct. I was going to buy a new seat cover so let me know what kind of seat this is?

Are you the member that is in Vancouver Washington? If so were neighbors. Come over and check it out.

In a few weeks I will be interested in this stuff from you. Just paid house payment and paid Works shocks $120 to rebuild the rear shocls. Lets hope the shafts are good or that will cost me $80 more. I also got the new radiator mounted. Looks great and looks like the ones on the magazine pics. It was from a LT250 80's 4 wheeler. At this point it is ready for the tear down. Just need to make sure I can find a seat cover. If not I need to find another seat and make mounts for that. This is what is holding me up right now. I do not want to tear down until all welding and fitting is done right.

Also looks like it had Nerf bars at one time. You can see where they ground down the nerf bar mounts at one time. And the mount that was under the bottom frame rail was not removed right on both sides. There is a dime sized hole on the bottom of each frame rail where they cut the mount off. This will need fixed. I will post a pic of that soon to make sure I repair this right. (look at the last pic of the red buggy. Notice the mount of the bottom of the rail? looks like they just cut that off with a torch and cutting into the frame rails when doing so.)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:11 am 
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"Standard Silver" is the color I used for restoring a couple of steering wheels. It is similar to 08707-NH35M "Cloud Silver" that Honda used but slightly brighter. I have noticed some of the racer builds actually had chrome steering wheels. That is something cool that I have not seen.
I don't know what you are talking about with the seat...I don't have any seats like yours. Just some small parts that you could use.

I live and will die in Texas.

PM me your address and I will see on shipping. Again, I don't payment for the small parts I would send. Just shipping.

Yeah, it is hard to know exactly on the frame because you just don't have alot of reference material to help.
I will do some research on the seats and covers.

CD


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Okay I see I miss read it now. Grip set, not grip seat. My bad.

Thanks for all the kelp friend.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:25 pm 
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Location: NY
Have you taken the cover off the seat? Is it a suspension seat( you sit on straps so you are suspended for a less harsh ride)? If it is a suspension seat it might be a beard. Is it plastic or fiberglass under the cover?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:06 am 
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hotrodd wrote:
Have you taken the cover off the seat? Is it a suspension seat( you sit on straps so you are suspended for a less harsh ride)? If it is a suspension seat it might be a beard. Is it plastic or fiberglass under the cover?



It is a solid fiberglass seat. Pretty basic, it just bolts to the frame.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:48 am 
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If it's just a plain fiberglass seat look on summit racing for a seat that looks similar. The covers just stretch over so I'm sure you can find sonething to fit. Also if you unbolt the seat there might be a tag or imprints in the fiberglass with a company name or model.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:16 pm 
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hotrodd wrote:
If it's just a plain fiberglass seat look on summit racing for a seat that looks similar. The covers just stretch over so I'm sure you can find sonething to fit. Also if you unbolt the seat there might be a tag or imprints in the fiberglass with a company name or model.



Can you ID those big ol seat belts in the pics? But I can see using newer Simpson belts as well. No slots in the seat. What belt style work best with my seat?

Hold up right now are seat cover and or seat along with seat belt mounts if needed to change. I few welds for the seat and seat belt if needed then ready for tear down.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Location: Benson, NC
very cool ...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:23 am 
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Ran into a snag maybe and need some advice. I was looking around on the net and just happend to stumble across my buggy before I bought it. He joined another buggy site to asked questions about the buggy. He is asking about gas but says things that raised my eyebrow. He talks about adding a bottom gasket. I will copy and paste from another site along with a link.

I have a fl250 with some kind of race motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) in it. i was told to use race gas and premium mix. because of my high compression other have told me to use airplane gas. any ideas

Whats the actual PSI it has?

not sure it was over 120 then the guy that worked on it found that it had no base gaskets never told me what it was after he put a fl350 gasket in. All i know it is ported all to hell and i don't have the tools to check

You need to know the PSI at the least. Get,buy, or borrow a gauge. Ports help flow a lil more but not the actual compression.

If it had no base gasket, the porting was probably set up to that. Adding the gasket will raise the ports and shift the RPMs it wants to run at upward. It would also lower the compression. If you test the compression and it is high, but would prefer not to run race fuel, I would remove the base gasket and use anaerobic gasket maker there. Then put in a thicker head gasket to lower the compression.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/pilot-od ... s-use.html" .".." .".." .".." .".." ."..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay I am thinking they set it up with no gasket. I have the contact info to Calvin Pollet. He worked for Cammex Racing in the 80's. So I emailed him. This is what was said.

I would have a little concern that the base gasket is aligned with the case and cylinder, but if it is running ok it must not be hanging into the tunnels too badly.

I would be a little concerned that the distance between the head and the piston, (the squish) is correctly setup, since at one time it was setup without a base gasket, and now it has one it could be a little out on the squish.

Calvin

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So what to do now? The motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) seems to run fine. BUT I have only driving it up my street like in the vid a few times. He said fl350 gasket? Maybe he ment fl250? Start with taking compression test right? Take the gasket out? Or run it?

Well he also posted some pics from a year or so ago. The good thing is the origianl radiator is in these pics. It has the same beadlock wheels now but he put new tires on it. He also cut that radiator off and added some little cheap thing. I do not think even this is the original radiator setup. it looks odd and if you look on at the pics you can see 3 tabs on the frame. I bet the original rad was there. that's how they are in the mag pics as well. Hmmm

Here is the before pics. (ported all to hell? I liked reading that Hehe :) I am hoping this little buggy should rip pretty good. Beem told is more than likly a Class 3 Odyssey with open class 360cc Cammex Racing Products Engine. But only way to know for sure is to take the head off.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Class III stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:20 pm 
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MasterCraft is what the Class III Hillside Hondas used per the article.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:07 pm 
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Would yours not be a modified or super modified?
Class III used frames...as I understand it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:16 am 
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Casey Davis wrote:
Would yours not be a modified or super modified?
Class III used frames...as I understand it.



Casey thanks for the pics. I enjoyed reading and learned some thing like the tire size info. I did a search and this Hillside Honda is still up and running. One of the racer's Paul, runs the shop still. I will be calling them soon. Hope to find out some more about what I have.

It is looking like is has to be an open class modified racer. Calvin Pollet (Cammex)said it could be a 250cc to 360cc. I am thinking it is the 360cc.

What do you think about the Engine info I found out? I located an old friend that knows 2 strokes very good. He built and raced his own TRX 250r racers in the late 80's. Only person I know that I will trust with this Engine. I am going to have him go thru it. I was hoping I could just run it. But better to be safe than sorry. Afer all he said he put and FL350 gasket in it????

Works has got my shocks along with the buggy info. About $150 to make them perfect again. The shocks being bad was a blessing really. If they would have been good I would of ran this thing hard. Not knowing the Engine could be set up wrong.

Also can you tell what type pf bead lock wheels I have? To me they are really wierd looking. I have not see anything like them.

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Again thanks for the info and all the help.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:47 am 
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Yeah, Trevor Brown is one here. (brd.racing)
brd.racing@yahoo.com
brownsrd.com
He does revised water cooled head designs based on his fathers work.

I'll mention the rims to some ATC buddies and I bet we can find the orgin.
Should be stamped somewhere on them...

As far as the new info you found on the Engine...
I guess I would rather be safe than sorry.
Did Hoser rebuild something similar or have some info posted somewhere?
Seems I read something that had to do with him and Cammex.

Anyways, I be continuing the effort to dig up as much as I can on all related...

CD


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:54 am 
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Location: Chicago
Still have this machine?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:49 am 
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Whatever happened to Hoogehead?
Always enjoyed his posts and videos...and DID that recently posting Turbo fella have anything to do with his absence...coincednce? :shock: Image Image


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