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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I will try to find a piece of card board around here to trace this and the upper arm out and measure! I am unsure if I want to add a piece of angle iron to the front of this ala hoserize it or put an aluminum skid plate on the bottom? Niether one of these would have prevented the damage inflicted by the fence post, but I do get into some rocky terrain... worried about the wieght...
I am also contemplating 450R spindles??? which will make up for the added wieght of the angle iron...


Attachments:
File comment: You can see sunset
straightnga-arm 007.jpg
straightnga-arm 007.jpg [ 53.25 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]
File comment: looks flush/square to me???
straightnga-arm 008.jpg
straightnga-arm 008.jpg [ 35.23 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Looks pretty good to me. Does the shock bolt line up ok. Should probley have mentioned to install as not to twist out of place. Sorry.

U=You would be surprised how many use can be found for that piecs of pipe. Leverage is pretty cool. Those arms must not be to weak if it took that much leverage. You now a back yard hacker/ truck stop hacker. I like to say
N B D, just do it. No Big Deal. Now take that cave man tool ( hammer) to that rim. Please replace ball jiont thu do not straighten and check all bolt for fractures around the head of the bolt. Bet you fell better now.

If you change to 450 r you gota have the uppers adjustable or it wont turn, ok not as good since you have pilot set up welded to frame.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:09 am 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
adnoh wrote:
Looks pretty good to me. Does the shock bolt line up ok. Should probley have mentioned to install as not to twist out of place. Sorry.

U=You would be surprised how many use can be found for that piecs of pipe. Leverage is pretty cool. Those arms must not be to weak if it took that much leverage. You now a back yard hacker/ truck stop hacker. I like to say
N B D, just do it. No Big Deal. Now take that cave man tool ( hammer) to that rim. Please replace ball jiont thu do not straighten and check all bolt for fractures around the head of the bolt. Bet you fell better now.

If you change to 450 r you gota have the uppers adjustable or it wont turn, ok not as good since you have pilot set up welded to frame.


You mean the top will need hiems to adjust castor???
It won't work as is? chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts claims it will work? but that was on pilot-odyssey


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:32 am 
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Location: Wichita ks
I wont say his wrong or call him names. From what I have done and hacked on In my case it will not work as effective as stock with out as you say a caster change to be effective. It will work as is and turn just not to my liking. I should have said it will work better with caster adjustments to dial in. Hiems is one way and adjument shims is the other.

I changed the wifes front to 8.5 inch of travle using stock arms and works shocks and no bump kit using the caster adjustment method. It allows for a 4 degree caster adjust still looking stock using stock bearings, spacers and seals. I also been woring on a plus 2 still looking mostly stock.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
adnoh wrote:
I wont say his wrong or call him names. From what I have done and hacked on In my case it will not work as effective as stock with out as you say a caster change to be effective. It will work as is and turn just not to my liking. I should have said it will work better with caster adjustments to dial in. Hiems is one way and adjument shims is the other.

I changed the wifes front to 8.5 inch of travle using stock arms and works shocks and no bump kit using the caster adjustment method. It allows for a 4 degree caster adjust still looking stock using stock bearings, spacers and seals. I also been woring on a plus 2 still looking mostly stock.


No name calling, just happens when you type after shock...
where or how do you put in shims???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
ok here is the top right (passenger) side a-arm drawn out...

10" from center of bushing to center of bushing
5" to center of ball joint a peak of the A
14'' from center line of bushing to tip of balljoint as installed and a 60* angle on the threaded piece


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straightnga-arm 009.jpg
straightnga-arm 009.jpg [ 317.76 KiB | Viewed 879 times ]
File comment: I left these pictures big for clarity...
straightnga-arm 010.jpg
straightnga-arm 010.jpg [ 311.47 KiB | Viewed 878 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
ok here is the lower a-arm
from top left corner it is 9 3/8" from center of bushings to c.o.b.
from top left corner to center line of ball joint threaded piece is 6 1/8"
from top to end of balljoint in a T line is 17"
and in a T to the shock mounting bolt is 11"


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straightnga-arm 011.jpg
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straightnga-arm 013.jpg
straightnga-arm 013.jpg [ 437.67 KiB | Viewed 877 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Got back from town and had an hour to get this. I will look over all the numbers tommorow and try to mock up a sample. Need to go eat with folks and listen to good band. I,ll be home late.


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Resize of Turbo a- arrm lay out 035.jpg
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Resize of Turbo a- arrm lay out 002.jpg
Resize of Turbo a- arrm lay out 002.jpg [ 86.6 KiB | Viewed 1054 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
I'll post up the rest tommorow also compare all three to the chromolly one I have and a plus 2 pilot. Was the one you have advertised as 0, plus 1 or 2 forward.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Turbo. did some measuring and this is what I come up with on the lower.
The diff from stock to yours.
Yours=:

Center to center on pivots +1/8 inch
Note: I measure over to it on the tube this will give you a center to center. This may account for diff.

Wheelbase change - 15/16 ) to 1" back
Note: This may be ok for the ody. Need to check yours verses stock for a accurate # of change. One item to consider here is if this is used on a pilot it will narrow up the whellbase ( lenght c to c of hubs) and will increase lawn darti avgle and rocking thu wooops more noticable increasing kick. This will also effect steering angle.

Width of arms + 3-11/16 ) to 4"
Note: This is due to having adjustable on yours and stock fixed. You should set your lower and adjust camber with upper. The futhur your lower is out from tube the greater leverage force is applied to the ball joint shaft.

Shock hole +3-1/4
Note this is a stright line # this will change because your arm is a LT which is mounted under arm and stock is mounted above arm. This is done on the LT so it can use the longer shock shaft withot major increase in ride height at a given sag. The Stock 1-3/8 up from C of pivot at 7-3/4 from center of pivot( see pic).

Interesting fact on GEO of stock. The shock and ball joint Center lines mate up on C of pivot. I would take this as they wanted the leverage force applied to the same point which by the way is about 2/3 of the arms c to c on pivot.

Thoughts: I would not use this arm on a pilot for the reason of reduce wheel base. If one was to run a reduced wheel base on there pilot with a extended front bumper OUCH , as the front suspension goes into bump the front has a higher tendesy to hit and pitch the machine forward ( aka crash). This is why I run a skid plate under my stock plastic bumper. This way when I dive it in the suspenion will asborb impact and have time to rebound before bumper hitting and letting what was set in motion to stay in motion instead of adding opposing force allowing the rear to go over. I do belive the added track width and longer travle has a major advantage over stock. I would replace the ball joint with a higher quality. On the upper I will have to do some more checking. I would add caster adjustment thu.

If the wheel base is shorter I would lean torward have new arms made +2. This willchange the steering and bump. Since your bump is bad any way one can unbolt ite hold move by hand back 2 inches and check to see if its better of worse before moving frame mount.

I will check other arms for fitment and fix. The +4 on yors is a HONDA LT + 2 on most 250s 400, and 450s. The key is the forward # and lT shock used for proper leverage ratios. If you change the uper to caster adjusteable youmay be able to just bolt on new ones.


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shock center line.jpg
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shock  center line # 1.jpg
shock center line # 1.jpg [ 84.37 KiB | Viewed 1036 times ]
shock center lin #2.jpg
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shock center line #3.jpg
shock center line #3.jpg [ 59.88 KiB | Viewed 1036 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I got banned from minibuggy because I was trying to have a conversation with the chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts so I will post the details here so all can see he hasn't changed in three years...

To the moderators at minibuggy...
Your childish bunch over here on this board has whined enough to get you to ban me! Yea they win... I asked you to keep them out of my threads as I was asked to stay out of the livewire threads and at least I abided!
That bunch just showed there maturity... My parents raised me with Manners, to bad they didn't get the same upbringing
You can make my ban permanent but you will have to remove all of my post even the ones that offered help and advise... Your bunch of losers in the pilot odyssey section remind me of a small group of retards being catered to so you can pat yourself on the back... You Gene have stooped to their low level with your hoser bashing LOL
Gown Men??? I bet your Mom is proud of you!!!
David


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Here is the pdf of how I gave steve a chance to show me what I did wrong, but all I got from them was I didn't install this correctly, which I replied with copies of his instructions and photos which looked exactly like what I had done in my install...


Attachments:
www.minibuggypage2.pdf [771.96 KiB]
Downloaded 76 times
www.minibuggy.net3l.pdf [947.28 KiB]
Downloaded 98 times
www.minibuggy4.pdf [728.69 KiB]
Downloaded 310 times
www.minibuggy.5.pdf [938.72 KiB]
Downloaded 73 times
File comment: I know how kfab likes to tidy up to his liking so I saved these here!
If you would like to see the pictures I posted for liewire I will post them also!

www.minibuggy6a.pdf [778.79 KiB]
Downloaded 289 times
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
Here is the pdf of how I gave steve a chance to show me what I did wrong, but all I got from them was I didn't install this correctly, which I replied with copies of his instructions and photos which looked exactly like what I had done in my install...


Quote:
Turbo, you were told multiple times, by multiple people on multiple boards that you
had your adjustable steering stops adjusted too far out.


When you design a steering system you design it so NO MATTER WHAT their is no way for ANY human to ERROR when installing adjusting or maintaining the system and create a condition where the steering will lock up or create any other dangerous condition.

Its that simple.

Its not rocket science look around you, I know everything I have ever worked on that has steering has built in controls where it CANT be incorrectly adjusted and create a unsafe condition, were talking cars, trucks, lawn mowers, go karts, garden tractors, boats, ATV's you name it!

The 'hard stop' is something solid that cant be adjusted or more importantly BENT, its over built where it cant be accidentally bent this is all part of making it SAFE, then on some systems from the 'hard stop' (the parts that cant be bent) their is a threaded bolt you can adjust to adjust how tight you can turn your steering, you can completely REMOVE this adjustable bolt or it could rust off OR it could become loose and vibrate out and even with the BOLT MISSING you could never turn it tight enough to cause a unsafe condition, by DESIGN their is no way you can go past the point of no return.

Its really sad LIEwire cant see this, its so simple, basic, then again look at his bumpers and nerfs, YEAH he is the same guy that actually built sold then shipped them great ideas....

Beat the dead horse? The horse is still very much alive and kicking that thread is proof here is links to the bumpers and nerfs made and sold by livewire I mention above http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epoTz5pfm0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeIE6KpHsC0

One thing for sure is the 'hoser envy' is thick in that thread when is the midget going to go on his 2000 word rant I really miss his meaningless mad man ramblings...

After reading all their drivel in that thread I am still waiting to see what they have contributed to the Pilot Odyssey community, Here is a SHORT list of my contributions http://pilotodyssey.com/PilotOdysseyInnovations.htm
I am pretty sure if they had anything it would be as easily listed as mine.

What is really "Funny" about that whole thread is all the complaints, if you don't like whats being said why are you reading it, if you don't like what Turbotexas has to say whats to complain about soon as you see a reply by Turbotexas you just scroll past his comments, seems pretty childish to continue to read Turbotexas post then complain about it.

Nice to see they were helpful..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Here is a picture of one of his infamous bumpers from his own site LOL It looks like they already ran it into a wall or was it mounted that way!


Attachments:
afterthought bumper.jpg
afterthought bumper.jpg [ 21.48 KiB | Viewed 1127 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
Here is a picture of one of his infamous bumpers from his own site LOL It looks like they already ran it into a wall or was it mounted that way!


I have a race picture where his bumper and tie rod both bent during the race... I will see if I can find it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
ok back on topic...
Here are the detailed pics chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts sent with the kit...
And then some pictures of how I installed on my ody...
So maybe they will man up and come show me where I have this installed wrong...
I won't hold my breath though...


Attachments:
File comment: This is the revelation that hoodlum/rooky/redman or whatever he calls himself this week pointed out was wrong with the initial set up... But wait this is a picture of afterthought instructions!
close_knuckle_left-crop.jpg
close_knuckle_left-crop.jpg [ 26.26 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]
close_knuckle_right-crop.jpg
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File comment: this is the next thing they tried to blame my troubles on, they stated I had this screwed to far out...
close_steering_slide-crop.jpg
close_steering_slide-crop.jpg [ 14.37 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]
File comment: just the full size photo...
close_steering_slide.jpg
close_steering_slide.jpg [ 43.68 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]
File comment: here it is on day one installed just like the pictures Chucklenuts sent!!!
a-arm 01012.JPG
a-arm 01012.JPG [ 54.64 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]
File comment: The right side...
Notice the difference in the two...

a-arm 01013.JPG
a-arm 01013.JPG [ 53.26 KiB | Viewed 1111 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Here it is


Attachments:
aftershits.jpg
aftershits.jpg [ 48.65 KiB | Viewed 1108 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
Here is a picture of one of his infamous bumpers from his own site LOL It looks like they already ran it into a wall or was it mounted that way!


I have a race picture where his bumper and tie rod both bent during the race... I will see if I can find it.


Is this what they call racing? LOL My front yard test track is rougher than this place??? Atvmutt must have got his feelings hurt when I discribed there "offroad" race track as a groomed track???
Funny thing about this video is on guy flips on his side and they Stop the race so they can continue from where he left off?
And the Dumbashes kept hitting the same damn line that one flipped on and the other damn near did a few more times???
http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/good-sto ... -bobs.html

http://www.downhomeracing.com/realaudio ... 5_Bobs.ram


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Here it is


OH MY Goodness that is freaking funny!!! Did he hit a big bug on the race course???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Here it is


OH MY Goodness that is freaking funny!!! Did he hit a big bug on the race course???


I don't recall the details all I remember is one of the board members took that picture at one of the the races he entered then emailed it to me, "Funny" it bent his bumper and his tie rods, no doubt he will claim both the tire rods and the bumper saved lives that day haha :-)

Image

So what is the fix for your 350 front suspension woes, abandon his master butchery and fabricate something like andoh fabricated for his Pilot probably faster in the long run.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
No Doubt, LOL In the picture I found she ran into a wall and was able to continue with the race LOLOLOLOLOL


hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Here it is


OH MY Goodness that is freaking funny!!! Did he hit a big bug on the race course???


I don't recall the details all I remember is one of the board members took that picture at one of the the races he entered then emailed it to me, "Funny" it bent his bumper and his tie rods, no doubt he will claim both the tire rods and the bumper saved lives that day haha :-)

Image

So what is the fix for your 350 front suspension woes, abandon his master butchery and fabricate something like andoh fabricated for his Pilot probably faster in the long run.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK Here is the reason my right side steering is locking up...
If you notice the pictures above one tab is built better than the other, wel not built better just braced better... When you ride in the rough stuff like I do there needs to be some better back bracing in the piece you designed to act as a steer stop... Doh and they called me stupid!!!

I gotta give credit to adnoh because he pointed this out to me!!!


Attachments:
why it locks up.JPG [62.05 KiB]
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a-arm 01012-croplftside.JPG
a-arm 01012-croplftside.JPG [ 58.84 KiB | Viewed 1089 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:09 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
OK Here is the reason my right side steering is locking up...
If you notice the pictures above one tab is built better than the other, wel not built better just braced better... When you ride in the rough stuff like I do there needs to be some better back bracing in the piece you designed to act as a steer stop... Doh and they called me stupid!!!

I gotta give credit to adnoh because he pointed this out to me!!!


Are you still trying to use a hiem joint for a linear bearing?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
OK Here is the reason my right side steering is locking up...
If you notice the pictures above one tab is built better than the other, wel not built better just braced better... When you ride in the rough stuff like I do there needs to be some better back bracing in the piece you designed to act as a steer stop... Doh and they called me stupid!!!

I gotta give credit to adnoh because he pointed this out to me!!!


Are you still trying to use a hiem joint for a linear bearing?


When I get home I will take better pictures of the wear on the lawyer links...

Hoodlum posted a new design from this bunch of idiots that is going to use a grooved or slotted lawyer ling to reduce "drag" LOL

I don't know what I will come up with for the linier bearing thing... I will do some research of what massody had on his...


Attachments:
File comment: this is just asking for trouble LOL
howmuch crap will this catch.JPG
howmuch crap will this catch.JPG [ 28 KiB | Viewed 1079 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:38 pm 
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Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
OK Here is the reason my right side steering is locking up...
If you notice the pictures above one tab is built better than the other, wel not built better just braced better... When you ride in the rough stuff like I do there needs to be some better back bracing in the piece you designed to act as a steer stop... Doh and they called me stupid!!!

I gotta give credit to adnoh because he pointed this out to me!!!


Are you still trying to use a hiem joint for a linear bearing?


When I get home I will take better pictures of the wear on the lawyer links...

Hoodlum posted a new design from this bunch of idiots that is going to use a grooved or slotted lawyer ling to reduce "drag" LOL

I don't know what I will come up with for the linier bearing thing... I will do some research of what massody had on his...


You mean after all these years of saying their is not a problem they are making changes, if their is not a problem why the change.

Materials are not the problem the design is the problem.


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