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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I got anew matching ball joint. I will install it, remount my tires, then set my toe...

Here from the directions... You can adjust the steering stops by loosening both jam nuts
and spinning the drag link (7" long 5/8" OD tube).
Mine are 8 f***ing inches long!!!

Again future mfgr... use a parts list, and include a copy with packing slip!!!
So I am going to mount my stock rims and start from scratch as far as msrmt. go...
I'll try to keep pictures coming, as I know everyone like the eye candy!!!
$110.00 parts and tools spent today only LOL


Attachments:
File comment: hope this loads... look at the ends of the a-arm, where ball joint ties in how out of square the drivers side is different than passenger side???
Web lopsided.jpg
Web lopsided.jpg [ 98.24 KiB | Viewed 9467 times ]
File comment: rite side... look at the backing nuts...
Web toe-in lopsided rt.jpg
Web toe-in lopsided rt.jpg [ 99.02 KiB | Viewed 9467 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:33 pm 
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Location: Chicago
It looks like you have knocked most the bling off that bumper and skid plate, the next time your taking pics how about a few close ups of the bumper and skid..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:32 pm 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Well what a difference the stock rims make!!! appears alot of the binding on full turn, and questions would have been self evident had I known to use them for set up... glad I hadn't cut te drak links as I would have had to cut again!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:38 pm 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
It looks like you have knocked most the bling off that bumper and skid plate, the next time your taking pics how about a few close ups of the bumper and skid..


My welder I paid $75.00 to tig weld some notches in it needed a better ground on his work table... I almost cried when I saw him do it the second time!!! the red you see under the yellow paint is from riding... the bare metal(with heavy coat of wd40 is where he scratched me.... good thing he's about 6'7 and 275lbs... I almost climbed up on top of him to knock a knot on his head...LOL


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 Post subject: resizing pics???
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
In case some don't believe I'm in Oregon working... where is my shade tree??? LOL


Attachments:
linkwear004.JPG
linkwear004.JPG [ 122.41 KiB | Viewed 9450 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I got one of the links off, and remember I have only ridden this around my yard, with NO DUST because of all the rain in Texas!!! Now first notice the link (s) are 8 inches even though my directions said they were 7 inches... I should have just assumed I needed to cut this to fit, after all I only paid $2700.00???
Now look at the 3" to 6" marks on the ruler, and then look at this Stainless steel rod...(I have yet to find a magnet to check if stainless...) But I don't think this would wear so easily... It's been on the back of my trailer all week!!!
I am going to cut them to 7.25" because that is before where the stock rims hit... Ican always cut it a second time...
Wait till chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts gets there invoice for all this extra time, materials and tools... I migh even have to have new pieces machined...
PLEASE if anyone has this setup check the wear on your drag links and post... only for comparision!!!


Attachments:
linkwear003.JPG
linkwear003.JPG [ 80.44 KiB | Viewed 9449 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
before I show how stupid I am again, has any one ever seen a stainless steel item stick to a magnet like this???
After All I am not a designing man


Attachments:
hecalledmealiar.jpg
hecalledmealiar.jpg [ 113.29 KiB | Viewed 9446 times ]
hecalledmealiar1.jpg
hecalledmealiar1.jpg [ 109.74 KiB | Viewed 9446 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
ok I finally got both links cut, and am fixing to put them back in... I had to cut the hiems shorter also, as the links were not tapped deep enough!!! Dang it's late Texas time but I got lots of Oregon daylight to burn... And to think I came all this way to wrench in a silly old truckstop... Sand Dunes 185 miles away!!! Thank you Steve!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I got this part done finally... I will have to have a stainless steel link made, and will have a better idea then if I trust chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts motorsports or stick with the 7.25 length... I will have to get some dust boots, somewhere if these links are stainless as they are supposed to be, they should not have worn so easily in 20 minutes max of ridoing around my place. remember it was all over the news that week about how much rain texas had gotten... If I rode it that hard there would be MUD all over the place. Heck look at some of my picturesa from me spending 5 days trying to figure out how to install this... there is standing water in some.
Tomorrow I'll go back and set the toe and then from there I will try to figuree out the shocks setup... Maybe I'll get to ride it around the truckstop a little before I go back to work mode on Monday..
On a brite note I did have a Truck driver come and help about 30 minutes!!! was handy to have a extra hand to seperate the miss matched ball joint!!!
OK in the morning I'll read richards post on shocks (thanks probie) and look at works site too!!!

And to think I was supposed to be duning in Oregon!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
Is it possible that the wear you see is actually way the tie rod was machined and part of the skillybilly design?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Is it possible that the wear you see is actually way the tie rod was machined and part of the skillybilly design?


The wear was not on the drag links when I got them just the rust was there. Remember I got chastized for asking about the rust soI did look at these very well. The are in conjuntion with the large hiem... and this is where they are worn from. Maybe if I had better instructions that told how far out from the frame the large hiem should be set...???


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:38 am 
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Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Is it possible that the wear you see is actually way the tie rod was machined and part of the skillybilly design?


The wear was not on the drag links when I got them just the rust was there. Remember I got chastized for asking about the rust soI did look at these very well. The are in conjuntion with the large hiem... and this is where they are worn from. Maybe if I had better instructions that told how far out from the frame the large hiem should be set...???


I thought I read some place your suppose to spray it with comet clutch lube and its not a problem!

Reread your installation, adjustment and maintenance instructions AGAIN perhaps you missed this little FACToid!

IF your scraping and peeling off metal at that rate in that short of time you might need to install a spark arrester on the tie rods so you don't start a forest fire, nice design I ASSume the tie rods are a consumable item like spark plugs, belts, tires etc., you have spares?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Turbotexas wrote:
before I show how stupid I am again, has any one ever seen a stainless steel item stick to a magnet like this???
After All I am not a designing man


The Stainless I used to work with was a higher grade, thus my assumtion all was... I used to make alot of kithen equipment...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
before I show how stupid I am again, has any one ever seen a stainless steel item stick to a magnet like this???
After All I am not a designing man


The Stainless I used to work with was a higher grade, thus my assumtion all was... I used to make alot of kithen equipment...


I too have fabricated many things out of stainless we used mostly 316L and 309 for some high temp stuff, I fabricated some shaker tables for a plastics plant that were like making kitchen equipment only more bends and complex radius and tapers, it had to be perfect so the product would not catch and plug up the system, everything was tig welded and buffed before delivery, we also fabricated a bunch of hoppers and stacks out of 10 ga 316L ever try rolling up a 44" round pipe out of 11 ga 316L with a HAND roller haha I think the hardest thing I ever made was some 8" square to rounds made out of 1/4" thick 316L , think about that one for a while, burned the pieces out with a plasma, easy enough now thing about forming them, even in a press brake the parts were so small they didnt bend, ended up hand forming them with a sledge hammer and a anvil like a black smith then tig welding them... I never thought to take pics of this stuff now my kid wishes he could see the parts also.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
in the process of setting up my shocks, I seen this...

leaves another question... At what point to I set my toe??? with me in car, or full droop??? or just with unloaded ride height>???


Attachments:
File comment: toed waaaay out???
Web fullcompshocks006.jpg
Web fullcompshocks006.jpg [ 122.61 KiB | Viewed 8841 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
in the process of setting up my shocks, I seen this...

leaves another question... At what point to I set my toe??? with me in car, or full droop??? or just with unloaded ride height>???


You need to do more measurments, measure toe change when the suspension cycles.

Under full compression measure toe then let it up a few inches, document how much you came up and the toe, then more keep doing this until your topped out on the suspension.


If the toe was set right at ride hight it should not change that much during the suspension cycle, something is wrong, you probably failed to read the instructions right... again... dumb ass :shock:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
in the process of setting up my shocks, I seen this...

leaves another question... At what point to I set my toe??? with me in car, or full droop??? or just with unloaded ride height>???


You need to do more measurments, measure toe change when the suspension cycles.

Under full compression measure toe then let it up a few inches, document how much you came up and the toe, then

more keep doing this until your topped out on the suspension.

If the toe was set right at ride hight it should not change that much during the suspension cycle, something is wrong, you probably failed to read the instructions right... again... dumb ass :shock:


My instructions... you figure it out??? 0% toe is what he said, but at what hieght???

He needs a 5/16" 12 point wrench. Those bolts are 170 KSI which is I think
about grade 10 so they can be cranked on. The nut inserts they go into are
grade 12.

I don't know where the video is. I have not been sending it out. The kit
is normally sent out mostly assembled. In order to get it out the day it
went, a few things like the ball joints were not threaded into the A-arms.
I have attached a zip file containing a bunch of closer pictures than what
I put on my website. Please only send these to those who have already paid
for a kit.

These are work in progress instructions. Send them as if from you. I try
to update them based on questions asked:

Strip down the front of the machine. Basically everything has to be
removed. Pop the stock ball joints out of the knuckles by hitting the SIDE
of the knuckle where the stud goes through while pulling on the arm. The
shock will cause it to pop. Hitting the stud itself will destroy it.

You will have to cut the hoop off the bottom of the frame that protected
the steering. The brake line mounting tabs on the lower front main tube
and a couple more tabs inside the lower frame tubes at the back of the
front fenders also will be cut off. Holding the lower portion of the
subframe up against the main frame will indicate the tabs that need to be
removed. The tabs needs to be ground flush to the tubes. Dry fit the
subframe to your frame before getting it painted or powder coated. The
steering tab in the center of the machine needs to be drilled out to
7/16". The spacer goes under the inner tie rod ends, then the left end and
finally the right end on top.

The ball joints will end up with about 1/2" to 3/4" of thread showing if
adjusted to clear stock rims. If using wheels with less backspacing, the
ball joints can be threaded in more without clearance issues. Some camber
(top of wheels tipped in) is desirable.

The inner most hiem in the steering adjusts the steering stops. You should
end up with about 2.5" of tie rod movement from left stop to right stop.
Check for clearance at full suspension droop. The bottom of the studs on
the outermost tie rod end can be trimmed to get additional clearance.
However, if you try to get too much movement, the steering can pop past
full turn. You can adjust the steering stops by loosening both jam nuts
and spinning the drag link (7" long 5/8" OD tube). Toe in can be adjusted
by loosening the tie rod jam nuts and spinning the tie rod (aluminum
tube). Zero toe works well, adjust as desired. Once toe is set and
steering stops are set, if there is excessive thread exposed on the outer
hiem of the drag link do the following: Remove the bolt from the clevis on
the tie rod. Spin the inner drag link hiem in counting the turns. Replace
the bolt then adjust the toe in again by 1/2 the number of turns. The same
process or the opposite adjustments can be used to minimize bump steer. It
is possible to adjust down to +/- 0.1 degrees of bump steer through the
entire suspension travel. Note that even with the worst possible
adjustment, bump steer will still be far less than stock.

There is a small piece twisted and bent tab. This is to mount the brake
tee. It goes under one of the bolts on the triangular steering stem plate.
The hard brake line will swoop back and to the left, right angle down then
right angle forward into the tee. See the pictures for placement of the
flexible lines.

The number of parts may seem overwhelming, but once you get it next to the
machine, it will make more sense. Once the number of parts left dwindles
from installing some, those remaining will make more sense. Let me know
any questions you have.

Steve Bishop (Professional Liar)
chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts Motorsports
http://www.chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts.com


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
These are work in progress instructions. Send them as if from you. I try
to update them based on questions asked:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
These are work in progress instructions. Send them as if from you. I try
to update them based on questions asked:


roflmao!!!
I was told I didn''t ask nice enough???


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I got the toe set up to 1/4 inch out... will try this as I will ride a day or so then change to 0 toe, ride that for a while then go to a 1/4 inch toe in and see what that feels like...
This was easy to do on the back of my trailer... I measured the deck and found center, then I lined the rear over this mark, and then centered the front using the bumper as a fixed point. This set my tires ontop of my frame, which is exposed and painted black... I then used a small square to set the tire 1/8 inch out. I then did the other side, and after locking them down I was able to reach a tape measure to one side then read the 1/4 inch difference. Check after bounce and still 1/4 toe out...
Sunday afternoon here to late to go to the dunes, so I'll just have to wait till next weekend. or try to break free this week sometime...:-(

forgot pics...


Attachments:
File comment: see how the trailer has planks all the way down...
Web toe-in setup036.jpg
Web toe-in setup036.jpg [ 162.11 KiB | Viewed 7705 times ]
File comment: Shameless plug for Randy!!!
I can't wait to get Steve new signs made... Much bigger and on the sides!!!

Web toe-in setup037.jpg
Web toe-in setup037.jpg [ 120.4 KiB | Viewed 8142 times ]
File comment: that's how I set the square up, then would take a measurement off of the frame...
Web toe set001.jpg
Web toe set001.jpg [ 118 KiB | Viewed 8142 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5530
Location: New Jersey
Better be careful, you may break a BETA agreement with "I wantyourmoney.com" Turbo-lol-
Those directions havent changed since "03 when I bought the first kit but you get chasticed and BANNED from Kiowas site, great customer service, email me and if you post VIEWS THAT IN THE MAKERS eyes may be deemed "bad for bis" or expose issues in the design of the kit -my buddy who runs the board will bann you, hence allowing safety issues for more than 50 + consumers to just disappear-LOL.My toe in to this day isn't set properly, I speak weekly to the guy that bought that ody from me with his "junk on the front" kit and he resets it, also he has issues with the nuts backing off on the arms Turbo.You may wish to check that out, or do as the manufacturer says and just install LOCTITE-LOL!!
I happened to be at my borhter in laws home yesterday and although I had no camera I looked at the tie rods, they are rusted from side to side and it appears to me he is spray lubbing wd-40 or PB BLASTER on the hiems to allow the rods to slide in and out on them, well designed kit from "iwantyourmoney.com"
Funny, 50+ kits sold, and nobody else has the same issues huh Turbo?Mabye just you and my brother in law got Blem kits, great way to divert attention to real issues-I wouldn't let my worst enemy drive with that kit on, IMO, lawsuit waiting to happen.Please be careful, if you jump that thing do little jump first, then retighten everything, better yet Turbo, in your travels in you go in AZ stop off a ATVR and let them see that "junkin the front.com" kit and see what they have to say about it, they have years of experience, years of detailed customer write ups, proven dependable service with customer service reps that assist in your installation of there items, let us know what they say.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Yes I am hoping to get a load in that direction. Hoodlum was a great help and called the other day with some pointers. His is on a pilot. I still haven't heard from anyone who has one on a 350??? Strange how a few from California whispered that they had this kit, with no problems... But none offered any kind of setup tips??? I guess they were afraid of upseting Steve and were thinking Steve wont sell me no more parts if I help Turbo???
Funny little man that Steve, did you see this?

http://www.quickieracing.com/forums/ind ... topic=56.0

Wonder why he didn't mention how happy I was with my kit and service and instructions??? Funny little man has time to try to sell another kit, but can't find 5 minutes to help me??? All I had were a few basic questions...


Attachments:
File comment: new advertising campaign!!!! Will have sign guy make one for my trailer also!!!
Web ADVERTISING 2.jpg
Web ADVERTISING 2.jpg [ 70.18 KiB | Viewed 8225 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
I noticed a few things on his subframe.html page, first in NONE of the pictures he does not show the tie rods sliding through the hiem joints he trying to hide this?

I also noticed it says
Quote:
A-arm conversion kit patent pending
does anybody know what his patent application number?

I asked around and found out a few things about patents from a guy that went through the process, I will cut and paste his comments below.

Hi Mark, I have a question about patents I figure if anybody knows it would be you :-)
I read some place that its illegal to say "patent pending" if you had not actually applied for a patent is this true?
Thanks in advance.
hoser..



Hey Hoser,

You may have heard that from me, as I remember saying it. Yes, if you say something is 'patent pending' or 'patent applied for', you better have done it! I don't know the penalty or even how you would go about getting in trouble, but I know it's a federal offense! I guess they do that so that you don't prevent someone from trying to steal your idea by faking it. You may not be awarded the patent, but don't claim it unless you've done it. That usually comes about once someone has applied for it, but wants to go into production with it before the patent is issued, which is perfectly legal. Anyone can copy your idea before the patent is issued, but once you have it issued, you have a legal ground to stand on, so you can tell your competitors to 'cease and desist - or else!' Unfortunately, it's up to you to defend your own patent, so it could get costly if someone big was building your patented device.

I hope that helps!

Mark



More from his second reply.

Well, if the dude has indeed applied for a patent, then he ought to be able to prove that he's indeed applied. If he's done it, then he'll have received an application number. You can track a patent application through the PAIRS process, and it shows you where it's at during every step of the way.

A-arms are pretty much all the same, whether they're on cars or ATV's, so I doubt he could get a patent on one, even if he's applied for one. If he's applied, his claim to patent pending is only a warning to you - it has no teeth because no patent has been issued. You can make as many of his A-arm design as you want, and he's powerless to stop you. If he gets the patent, then he could come after you if you were to continue making them, but he couldn't sue you over the ones you built and sold BEFORE his patent came out.

Ask him for proof! In the mean time, design and make your own A-arms - you're not breaking any laws, and if he shared the idea in public before he applied for the patent, he may have ruined his chance to even get the thing. If it's published out in the open, it can be proven that it was in the public domain, so his application might be invalid. If he shared it with anyone, I would hope he got a confidentiality agreement, but even that is only as good as the paper it's written on. Unfortunately, the only way to really protect yourself is to not share it with anyone, and to apply for the patent. If he's bluffing, you can call his bluff - make him prove it!

I hope that helps. You can post any or all of this on your site if you like.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:30 am 
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Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
You ever figure out how much TOE change you have from full bump to full droop?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:24 am
Posts: 796
Location: Bolton Ma
From what I've been told: There is also a one year timer that starts once you public speak of an idea.
You have 1 year to apply for a patent on that idea.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html


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