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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Well I got inspired to do some work on this beast once again... I started out taking lots (67) pics as I removed the lower ball joints that are bent. I am sure the darkside idiots will claim that I doctored these as the have before Don't really care what the no ridding bunch of losers think... I wonder if they are jealous because of the amount of ride time I got compared to there 5 minute races once a month?
First I concentrated on getting good pic's of where every thing is as is... I put my sand tires on the front because they are the stock rims and the rib makes it easy to measure the toe setting. I felt there wasn't any sense in cutting my lawyer links as suggested by Lee until I got the lower ball joints replaced. I found out the parts are from a 79-86 ford pickup truck... I ordered the new pieces and ball boots today. I noticed the passenger side balls were screwed in more than the other side... but they were both vertical... it looks like the driver side arms aren't finished the same as the passenger...
I also measured my "travel" which was sold/advertised as 12 inches... of course I am sure I am measuring the wrong place but I decided to measure the spindle center at full droop with shock on to the highest possible position with the shock removed... only about 7 inches??? where do the experts like chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts measure the travel from???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
dooohhh...
pictures


Attachments:
File comment: shows how high it is off trailer deck...
a-arm march001.JPG
a-arm march001.JPG [ 45.51 KiB | Viewed 1225 times ]
File comment: shows driver side
a-arm march003.JPG
a-arm march003.JPG [ 51.04 KiB | Viewed 1225 times ]
File comment: with wheel off...
a-arm march010.JPG
a-arm march010.JPG [ 52 KiB | Viewed 1225 times ]
File comment: inflating tires to 5 psi
a-arm march018.JPG
a-arm march018.JPG [ 30.13 KiB | Viewed 1225 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
more...


Attachments:
File comment: with wheel off
a-arm march011.JPG
a-arm march011.JPG [ 57.39 KiB | Viewed 1223 times ]
a-arm march012.JPG
a-arm march012.JPG [ 43.82 KiB | Viewed 1223 times ]
a-arm march013.JPG
a-arm march013.JPG [ 44.89 KiB | Viewed 1223 times ]
a-arm march014.JPG
a-arm march014.JPG [ 52.03 KiB | Viewed 1223 times ]
a-arm march015.JPG
a-arm march015.JPG [ 55.98 KiB | Viewed 1223 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
and some more...


Attachments:
File comment: see how little clearance on passenger side
a-arm march019.JPG
a-arm march019.JPG [ 39.63 KiB | Viewed 1347 times ]
a-arm march020.JPG
a-arm march020.JPG [ 31.69 KiB | Viewed 1347 times ]
a-arm march021.JPG
a-arm march021.JPG [ 30.76 KiB | Viewed 1347 times ]
a-arm march022.JPG
a-arm march022.JPG [ 32.77 KiB | Viewed 1347 times ]
a-arm march023.JPG
a-arm march023.JPG [ 42.15 KiB | Viewed 1347 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
even more


Attachments:
File comment: These are just views of the the ball joints and spindles
a-arm march025.JPG
a-arm march025.JPG [ 45.98 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]
a-arm march026.JPG
a-arm march026.JPG [ 49.52 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]
a-arm march028.JPG
a-arm march028.JPG [ 39.86 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]
a-arm march029.JPG
a-arm march029.JPG [ 40.21 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]
a-arm march030.JPG
a-arm march030.JPG [ 51.38 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
the rest....


Attachments:
a-arm march031.JPG
a-arm march031.JPG [ 52.7 KiB | Viewed 1344 times ]
File comment: these two show the frame is level...
a-arm march033.JPG
a-arm march033.JPG [ 52.41 KiB | Viewed 1344 times ]
File comment: hope you can read the ruler
a-arm march034.JPG
a-arm march034.JPG [ 43.01 KiB | Viewed 1344 times ]
a-arm march035.JPG
a-arm march035.JPG [ 39.32 KiB | Viewed 1344 times ]
a-arm march036.JPG
a-arm march036.JPG [ 57.99 KiB | Viewed 1344 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
I understand so far what the problems are. So they main problem now is you have bad bumpsteer? So at full compression your wheels toe out? Then the geometry of your arms is off. So when you turn to the left or right your wheel locks on the side you turn too. You will need to reconfigure your steering assembly so the left and right have equal throw unless the system will allow you to put in a stop on it. You will notice on the stock machine the wheel on the side you turn to turns more then the otherside. This is a pain in the ass to fix but it can be done. If you notice mostly all longtravel big cars run the rods in front of the spindal not behind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Also with doing a longtravel to minimize bumpsteer the tierod should be in line with your a-arms and its way off in your pics. I take it your tierod isnt the same length as your arms so as it uptravels it shortens so your point of worst toe out is probably when the spindle is flush with or the same level as the frame.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22086
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
Well I got inspired to do some work on this beast once again... I started out taking lots (67) pics as I removed the lower ball joints that are bent. I am sure the darkside idiots will claim that I doctored these as the have before Don't really care what the no ridding bunch of losers think... I wonder if they are jealous because of the amount of ride time I got compared to there 5 minute races once a month?
First I concentrated on getting good pic's of where every thing is as is... I put my sand tires on the front because they are the stock rims and the rib makes it easy to measure the toe setting. I felt there wasn't any sense in cutting my lawyer links as suggested by Lee until I got the lower ball joints replaced. I found out the parts are from a 79-86 ford pickup truck... I ordered the new pieces and ball boots today. I noticed the passenger side balls were screwed in more than the other side... but they were both vertical... it looks like the driver side arms aren't finished the same as the passenger...
I also measured my "travel" which was sold/advertised as 12 inches... of course I am sure I am measuring the wrong place but I decided to measure the spindle center at full droop with shock on to the highest possible position with the shock removed... only about 7 inches??? where do the experts like chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts measure the travel from???


Your just now measuring the travel?

I would measure the travel from the center of the spindle with the shock on, full droop to full bump, with the 350 on jack stands remove the tire measure from the center of the spindle nut to the ground then put a jack under the brake drum and jack the drum up until the shock bottoms out,then measure to the spindle again, you might need to lash the front of the buggy down when jacking it up to get full compression.

Try this let us know what the numbers are.

Measuring with the shock off is a worthless number you need to know the actual usable travel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
shoubadaba wrote:
Also with doing a longtravel to minimize bumpsteer the tierod should be in line with your a-arms and its way off in your pics. I take it your tierod isnt the same length as your arms so as it uptravels it shortens so your point of worst toe out is probably when the spindle is flush with or the same level as the frame.



Yes it is way toed out on full compression... (see pic's with buggy strapped to trailer earlier in thread...


Attachments:
File comment: here is a pic so you won't have to search... this was in July when I first got this thing...
fullcompshocks006.JPG
fullcompshocks006.JPG [ 55.56 KiB | Viewed 1259 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK here is what I have so far... I installed new ball joints, and to get the hub to be level vertically I had to play with the threading... where the arrows are is the difference in the gap... I am wondering if I got one of these infamous blem kits I just learned about??? http://www.minibuggy.net/modules.php?na ... 5019#65019

What I am trying to figure out is why does one side line up different from the other side? would my frame be wongo? would the a-arms be wongo'ed as seen in my earlier pic's when I first installed this I saw this???


Attachments:
File comment: where the arrows point is the thread exposed to aline the castor or camber I don't know which it is???
a-arm march 2014.JPG
a-arm march 2014.JPG [ 37.34 KiB | Viewed 1257 times ]
File comment: Drivers side lines up real nice... I have room to put nuts on the back of the ball joint to keep from falling out... Passenger side I have no room...
a-arm march 2015.JPG
a-arm march 2015.JPG [ 45.76 KiB | Viewed 1257 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
next problem I came across is the fact that now the spindle hits the a-arms at full turn... I had room to shorten the steer stops by taking in a thread or two, but even this would result in the spindle hitting the a-arm... only cure I can see is to cut the bottom of the tie rod end and hope it doesn't Back out with locktite in it. I have already seen how just traveling on my air ride trailer how this would back out of the nut before I installed the nut behind it??? Or maybe I should just back the ball joints out 1/2 inch each side to avoid hitting this???


Attachments:
File comment: here you see I had room to bring the stops in a little...
a-arm march 2001.JPG
a-arm march 2001.JPG [ 42.6 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
File comment: Tis is what I believe Lee was wanting me to try... I haven't cut them yet as I am afraid I might cut to much off???
a-arm march 2002.JPG
a-arm march 2002.JPG [ 42.39 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
a-arm march 2003.JPG
a-arm march 2003.JPG [ 46.38 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
File comment: driver side not as bad... still to close for comfort???
a-arm march 2004.JPG
a-arm march 2004.JPG [ 38.83 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
a-arm march 2005.JPG
a-arm march 2005.JPG [ 49.93 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
a-arm march 2006.JPG
a-arm march 2006.JPG [ 35.65 KiB | Viewed 1254 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I am guessing I'll have to start from scratch and back the ball joints out so this clears... I am sure these will bend again if I do that!!!


Attachments:
a-arm march 2007.JPG
a-arm march 2007.JPG [ 47.46 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
a-arm march 2008.JPG
a-arm march 2008.JPG [ 38.51 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
File comment: I can't go flying down the trail and have this bind???
a-arm march 2009.JPG
a-arm march 2009.JPG [ 38.4 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
a-arm march 2010.JPG
a-arm march 2010.JPG [ 42.82 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
a-arm march 2011.JPG
a-arm march 2011.JPG [ 50.88 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
a-arm march 2012.JPG
a-arm march 2012.JPG [ 48.28 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22086
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
OK here is what I have so far... I installed new ball joints, and to get the hub to be level vertically I had to play with the threading... where the arrows are is the difference in the gap... I am wondering if I got one of these infamous blem kits I just learned about??? http://www.minibuggy.net/modules.php?na ... 5019#65019


Mudbogger's kit was a blem too.

You can tell moskito likes playing the heavy LMAO Better watch out he might beat you with his purse...
How come he is the only moderator that has a problem with you?

"Funny" how you get the definition of blem but atvmutt has not post what the blem is.... its almost gone "priceless"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J2uvjKh3dA

Sorry about the poor quality in the middle, but I have missed placed my newer camera...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22086
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J2uvjKh3dA

Sorry about the poor quality in the middle, but I have missed placed my newer camera...


Wow that sux now what?

You call ATVmutt or a lawyer?

You get a chance to measure the actual suspension travel with the shock on?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 877
What exactly is loose on the right side? A Arms? Bracket that mounts to the frame?
You gotta fix that sheet mon!
Spindles where tie rod goes hitting lower a arm = death trap

Get that thing to Louisville and Yoda will straigten it out for you
Nothin a torch and welder cant fix.
Make it Happen!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2831
Location: Wichita ks
Wow. Turbo. It may not want to turn but the bling bling is in tact. I do like the front shinny rims. Are those pilot or odysse stock fronts.

As far as the font end it may be time to turn it over to a local race shop for some upgrades. May cost a few buck however it will be a whole lot safer. According to your post you been pretty lucky and no one including your self has yet been hurt. You know it's easy for use to set back and arm chair quarter back. You are the one that will have to live with some one getting injured. An accident is one thing however knowing it dangeris is negligence. At least get a professional's opinoin on set up. If not a local race shop how about a local wyotech or equilavent. Those teachers are top notch and maybe correct for a miniumal cost and the student can get a lesson not normily tought. Know ones need to tell a professioal driver the importance of safty. Just concerned for you and others well being. As forest gump said "That's all I got to say about that". Sincerly Richard.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Today I got my new axle installed and now I have to replace/repair some foam padding on the seat. I had a mouse make a nest in it and tear up the foam and made a cozy little mess... Box of Moth balls in the shed now hope that will keep them out. I am hoping to get a chance to ride tomorrow afternoon or Sunday to test out lastest attempt on this mess...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Did a bit of riding... not much, I guess I am just to FAT??? the front reacts just like it did in the first time I installed it, hard to steer... I had Dakota help me set the sag, then I rode it for 20 minutes and then took the pics the castor/camber vertical from the front not sure which one it is is way to A shaped... the toe out returned to way out there??? I guess I am just to big LOL that it sinks and stretched out to this position? I wonder if it is the aluminum rims? I will try with the stock rims tomorrow before I reset this...


Attachments:
yardtest3001.JPG
yardtest3001.JPG [ 68.91 KiB | Viewed 1332 times ]
yardtest3007.JPG
yardtest3007.JPG [ 110 KiB | Viewed 1332 times ]
File comment: my 135 pound kid on the front bumper
yardtest3020.JPG
yardtest3020.JPG [ 70.86 KiB | Viewed 1332 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
here is the video of the riding I did... you can tell by the daylight how much I rode filled up small card on old camera, had to come in and download and start again, so not a lot of time before it settled into the toe out position

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Uogh5debA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Hows the suspension now? Did you get the toe out solved?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
It seems to work better with the stock rims??? At least in Sand, as I use the stock rims in the sand with a ribbed tire. My motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is down now and I will try my dirt tires on the Ody when I am up and running... I just have never seen so much Monky motion on any quads, or pilots, and this just might be a design feature from chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts??? I will have to just keep my fingers crossed!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I have finally had a chance to tackle this monster again! After crashing into several trees a few weeks ago on my first cross country race I figured it was time to try what AFASTCAR posted here... Thanks Jacob for the insight! viewtopic.php?t=4072&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=24
Today I got it up on jacks nd made some plates to use and attach the angle finder...
There were a few thinks I checked with the angle finder that bothered me... see the pic's below... Sorry about the quality, but they are from my cell phone...


Attachments:
File comment: you can see where the wheel/rim is hitting the A-Arm at full compression and turning right... It has dented the rim???
0415091810-00.jpg [27.24 KiB]
Downloaded 252 times
File comment: same place just from down below...
0415091809-01.jpg [19.57 KiB]
Downloaded 224 times
File comment: I am hoping the cause of this problem is the BENT lower ball joint end here
0415091741-01.jpg
0415091741-01.jpg [ 35.08 KiB | Viewed 1131 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5246
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Here is where I think some of my difficulty came from in getting this working right... I noticed when I first got this stuff that one side was made different than the other... with the angle finder I noticed a 5* difference on the angle of the upper arm in relation to the lower arm on the left or drivers side... Actually I plan on cutting a 1/4 inch off this to hopefully get the camber set right...

Tomorrow I will replace the lower ball joints AGAIN and cut back the lower A-Arm on the drivers side, then set my camber at 0* as per chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts instructions then set the toe to 1/4 out!!!
If it don't rain all day!!!


Attachments:
File comment: drivers side, about 10* from the where the nut meets the a-arms 5-6 degrees different from other side??
0415092000-00.jpg
0415092000-00.jpg [ 40.39 KiB | Viewed 1126 times ]
File comment: A close up...
0415092000-01.jpg
0415092000-01.jpg [ 27.83 KiB | Viewed 1126 times ]
File comment: Passenger side
0415092002-00.jpg [30.9 KiB]
Downloaded 247 times
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