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 Post subject: 400ex basket case...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I bought this the other day...
Well I broke down and picked up this thing the other day and I have my work cut out for me! I have had a 400 before and liked the power as stock, so I might get this one back to stock by removing the header and pipe. I am 46 years old and don't need to go that fast! LOL I don't bounce like I used to! LOL So I took some pictures of the thing and hopefully someone can tell me what I have going on. It has some kind of aftermarket front end with 450r shocks that the previous owner said had works triple rate springs The rear has a 1" Plus swing arm with a stock 450r shock. The rear linkage looks odd, but I never paid much attention on the last quad...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread. ... genumber=1

having trouble figureing out the carb... take a listen and see if you can tell me whats going on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKS-KaCsVQ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Wichita ks
Hi turbo, Did yo buy it in the same state( elavation change). I can not preview pics on other site. If it has 450 stuff with stock springs It will set up kinda highand give you a tipping fealing. It will also handle kinda bad. If it has a dual rate in the rear and triples in front The ride height will be better sutted for wheel base. The 450 shocks are fully adjustable ( lacknig low speed compressin). Since the rear swing arm has the rear shock link most likly changed for increas in travle. This effects the spring rate on the shock. one more reason I hope the stock springs not on there. If it is there soften up the compression as see if it feels better if not go other way. Hard to tell with out looking at link. This changes the leveage on the shock. As far as the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) make sure valves are set for the cam that been installed (ask owner) and ask how old cam chain is ( check tension levle) Jetting is not much diff from two stroke. What carb stock or diff. It will effect what you change. When or if you check valve clearence check for broken spring as well do leak down test listing to the intake and exhaust for vavle condition of blow by. Listen to motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) vent tube for condition of rings. Any oil resadue on plug. Also ask owner what valves are in it. Different valve materil require different springs due to the weight of material. The valve spring static tension must be set for propper operation at top end and not beat up the piston or vale seats. If valves have been changes ask if spring were changed as well. What piston? MFG and typ( 11 to 1, 12 to 1 ,12.5 to 1 ect) If all stock use book if not need all the info on Engine or you will chase your tail a while. From what I heard the cam chain is loose and the exhast valve need attetion and the needle needs adjusted. Deos it hard start when hot? Does it pull hard on top or lazy?.


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 Post subject: Re: 400ex basket case...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
I bought this the other day...
Well I broke down and picked up this thing the other day and I have my work cut out for me! I have had a 400 before and liked the power as stock, so I might get this one back to stock by removing the header and pipe. I am 46 years old and don't need to go that fast! LOL I don't bounce like I used to! LOL So I took some pictures of the thing and hopefully someone can tell me what I have going on. It has some kind of aftermarket front end with 450r shocks that the previous owner said had works triple rate springs The rear has a 1" Plus swing arm with a stock 450r shock. The rear linkage looks odd, but I never paid much attention on the last quad...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread. ... genumber=1

having trouble figureing out the carb... take a listen and see if you can tell me whats going on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKS-KaCsVQ


Have pics of this thing?


Sounds like its starving for fuel whats it do at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I have not even rode this thing enough to mess with the shocks yet... The frame was cut down say's previous owner. I will post pics soon. I tried replacing the fuelhose but it didn't effect the running. I had to get vise grip needle nose pliers to remove screws on carb bowl LOL The po said he paid someone to jet it for the new pipe!!! (whoops new exhaust and headers LOL not a 2 stroke) The motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is a used 2003 the guy got off ebay I am a glutten for punishment huh
here are some pic's

adnoh wrote:
Hi turbo, Did yo buy it in the same state( elavation change). I can not preview pics on other site. If it has 450 stuff with stock springs It will set up kinda highand give you a tipping fealing. It will also handle kinda bad. If it has a dual rate in the rear and triples in front The ride height will be better sutted for wheel base. The 450 shocks are fully adjustable ( lacknig low speed compressin). Since the rear swing arm has the rear shock link most likly changed for increas in travle. This effects the spring rate on the shock. one more reason I hope the stock springs not on there. If it is there soften up the compression as see if it feels better if not go other way. Hard to tell with out looking at link. This changes the leveage on the shock. As far as the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) make sure valves are set for the cam that been installed (ask owner) and ask how old cam chain is ( check tension levle) Jetting is not much diff from two stroke. What carb stock or diff. It will effect what you change. When or if you check valve clearence check for broken spring as well do leak down test listing to the intake and exhaust for vavle condition of blow by. Listen to motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) vent tube for condition of rings. Any oil resadue on plug. Also ask owner what valves are in it. Different valve materil require different springs due to the weight of material. The valve spring static tension must be set for propper operation at top end and not beat up the piston or vale seats. If valves have been changes ask if spring were changed as well. What piston? MFG and typ( 11 to 1, 12 to 1 ,12.5 to 1 ect) If all stock use book if not need all the info on Engine or you will chase your tail a while. From what I heard the cam chain is loose and the exhast valve need attetion and the needle needs adjusted. Deos it hard start when hot? Does it pull hard on top or lazy?.


Attachments:
basket case400 001.jpg
basket case400 001.jpg [ 55.07 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
File comment: been told this is on backwards???
basket case400 002.jpg
basket case400 002.jpg [ 48.97 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
basket case400 003.jpg
basket case400 003.jpg [ 52.33 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
basket case400 004.jpg
basket case400 004.jpg [ 57.34 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
File comment: screw on left is useless, seems broken cable inside... It is fuel screw???
basket case400 005.jpg
basket case400 005.jpg [ 38.4 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
File comment: love all the red rtv sealant lol I had to retighten/torque the front bolt to keep oil from spewing out the head
basket case400 006.jpg
basket case400 006.jpg [ 47.28 KiB | Viewed 1777 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: 400ex basket case...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
I bought this the other day...
Well I broke down and picked up this thing the other day and I have my work cut out for me! I have had a 400 before and liked the power as stock, so I might get this one back to stock by removing the header and pipe. I am 46 years old and don't need to go that fast! LOL I don't bounce like I used to! LOL So I took some pictures of the thing and hopefully someone can tell me what I have going on. It has some kind of aftermarket front end with 450r shocks that the previous owner said had works triple rate springs The rear has a 1" Plus swing arm with a stock 450r shock. The rear linkage looks odd, but I never paid much attention on the last quad...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread. ... genumber=1

having trouble figureing out the carb... take a listen and see if you can tell me whats going on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKS-KaCsVQ


Have pics of this thing?


Sounds like its starving for fuel whats it do at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) ?


I am fixing to tear into carb... any pic's you have of the manual would be good, I have a manual at home but Im in El paso I am thinking it is float out of spec or needle not set right. but I can't find float spec...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Quote:
love all the red rtv sealant lol I had to retighten/torque the front bolt to keep oil from spewing out the head


that's a BIG RED FLAG you cant continue to run that Engine until you remove that valve cover and get that silicone out of their, also get out the manual and look for the oil flow diagram see if they use one of the bolt passages to supply oil to the top end.

That silicone will be on the inside too! If its not restricting a oil passage it can fall off and work its way back to the oil pickup and block oil flow.

Never had that cover off a 400EX but I bet its sealed with a gasket or O ring??? and requires NO sealants?

Years ago I had a Engine brought to me that someone used silicone sealer when they reinstalled the head gasket, it looked like what you have going, what they didnt realize was the excess silicone blocked off the oil passage to the head so when they ran it the cam never got any oil, it lasted a few hrs then the cam bearings were gone, in that Engine the cam bearings are cast into the head, the only fix was to buy another head, the guy did about 400 bux damage putting excess sealer on.

While were on the subject of sealers lets think about what they are for, they are to fill in little imperfections in the gasket surfaces, when you torque parts together their is no gaps to fill so if you apply a layer of gasket sealer .020 thick then torque the bolts the gasket sealer is going to squeeze out, in most cases you don't need any more than the thickness of a newspaper layer of gasket sealer to do the job, your only suppose to use sealer when the service manual calls for it, if the manual does not call for it don't USE IT!!! now their is a exception to that rule, if you have parts that are known to leak for a specific reason and sealer is the cure then by all means DO IT! Just be very AWARE of what your doing...


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I do have an extra metal gasket I might replace but being in a truck stop I am nervous about that... too much dust! LOL I will order copper gaskets to be waiting for me when I get home... Once I get the carb figured out LOL
Now to change the clip do I remove the 2 screws inside that hold it to the inside of the piston thingie???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
here are some more pics


Attachments:
File comment: gota love a k&n LOL
k&n crapcarb 001.jpg
k&n crapcarb 001.jpg [ 321.85 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
File comment: real nice job K&N
k&n crapcarb 004.jpg
k&n crapcarb 004.jpg [ 324.21 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
k&n crapcarb 005.jpg
k&n crapcarb 005.jpg [ 321.07 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
File comment: Aftercrap radiator hose stuff...
k&n crapcarb 006.jpg
k&n crapcarb 006.jpg [ 322.36 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
k&n crapcarb 007.jpg
k&n crapcarb 007.jpg [ 321.55 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
k&n crapcarb 008.jpg
k&n crapcarb 008.jpg [ 319.32 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Here are the two screws I think I need to remove to adjust the clip...


Attachments:
k&n crapcarb 010.jpg
k&n crapcarb 010.jpg [ 323.88 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
k&n crapcarb 011.jpg
k&n crapcarb 011.jpg [ 320.4 KiB | Viewed 1640 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
will I need to drain the oil to pop the top of this off? I can move to a cleaner place to get that done, but don't want to dig to deep... I need to get feeler gauge for valves too...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
will I need to drain the oil to pop the top of this off? I can move to a cleaner place to get that done, but don't want to dig to deep... I need to get feeler gauge for valves too...


Looks like you need at lease one new valve cover bolt one looks rounded off...

Special intake manifold huh.

This might help?


Attachments:
400excarb.jpg
400excarb.jpg [ 77.2 KiB | Viewed 1705 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Didnt realize your on the road don't take it apart in dusty areas...

Should not have to drain oil to remove the head cover.

You have a manual? You can probably find one here viewtopic.php?t=5450&highlight=manuals

I have the 400ex manual hard copy and in PDF the PDF is 126 meg ... sux to be dialup heh


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Didnt realize your on the road don't take it apart in dusty areas...

Should not have to drain oil to remove the head cover.

You have a manual? You can probably find one here http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/view ... ht=manuals

I have the 400ex manual hard copy and in PDF the PDF is 126 meg ... sux to be dialup heh



that picture is clearer than the one I copied from service honda site...
I moved the clip up a notch to give it more fuel and cleaned everything up and still no good??? it is a steady miss/skip??? I will take another video after lunch... it is not dusty now, if rain comes back like last night I might have trouble??? I know some of the little bolts on the top valve cover are stripped in the jug. I might take the top off and remove as much red crap as possible??? could it be getting air in thru someplace and getting this reaction???
more pic's...


Attachments:
carb2 004.jpg
carb2 004.jpg [ 320.65 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb2 005.jpg
carb2 005.jpg [ 322.54 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb2 006.jpg
carb2 006.jpg [ 320.68 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb2 007.jpg
carb2 007.jpg [ 323.4 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I found this, but can't seem to get it saved to my hard drive???


http://www.maxmekker.com/atv/Manualer/H ... 0400ex.pdf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
DOH... I need to drop the clip to richen it up LOLso back into it once again!!! LOL Typical Turbo LOL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
DOH... I need to drop the clip to richen it up LOLso back into it once again!!! LOL Typical Turbo LOL


Figured you might be having a blond moment when I read that, inside the carb look clean?

How does it run at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) ?

This is a pumper carb does it squirt a shot of gas when you work the throttle? Like the carb on a car or truck it has a accelerator pump....

Download that manual and read the troubleshooting section and carb section.

That PDF is downloading for me.

Try this right click on the link and choose save as.

http://www.maxmekker.com/atv/Manualer/H ... 0400ex.pdf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I got it to download! It was up in the buttons the adobe reader has a new to me look so I had to explore... The carb is a squirter for sure LOL got all over me LOL It seems to do that ok when I hit the throttle... Sounds like it is still doing the same, I have one more needle clip to go so I will try that... after that I am done till I get home I guess... I have some jets there I can try a bigger main jet?
What if I put the quite core back in it? To slow down the exhaust Would that help??? I do need to have it in for the sake i a spark arrestor!!! I will clean it up and try it...
Bad news is I have a puff of smoke coming out of or from below the exhaust, and I am afraid it might be the head gasket gone bad... would that creat the current problem I am trying to cure???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Wichita ks
The smoke may be from a valve seal leaking. Check those valve clearences. Remove the tappet cover plugs and set the timing to TDC (Top Dead Center) visable fromthe removable plug by fly wheel and then see if you can wigly the valve and spring side to side waching the tip of the valve were the retainers are. That K&N siad right on it oild before use. An outerware would really help. For the dusty condition visable from filter a foam would be better. Un screew the plug on valve cover to adjust valves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Wichita ks
pic with arrows. 1= smoke for exhaust, valve seals ,rings, leak for cover. 2= blown head gasket , rings,valve seal. Spray head with Engine cold were head and jug meat keep off exhaut start and look for bubbles.


Attachments:
400 ex.jpg
400 ex.jpg [ 52.04 KiB | Viewed 1753 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Well I gave up on the jetting I believe my problems are deeper... I am regretting this purchase already! The guy who sold it to me was a recently discharged vet who acted and sounded like he knew what he was talking about...
I don't have the tools with me or the experience to tear into this thing while I am on the road. I soooo needed the stress releif of a good all day ride... My bad for trusting the guy...
below are the heartbreakking pictures I took after I put everything back together... I hope it is salvagable...


Attachments:
carb3 009.jpg
carb3 009.jpg [ 319.38 KiB | Viewed 1640 times ]
carb3 010.jpg
carb3 010.jpg [ 318.32 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb3 011.jpg
carb3 011.jpg [ 320.23 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb3 006.jpg
carb3 006.jpg [ 321.31 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
carb3 007.jpg
carb3 007.jpg [ 322.97 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
File comment: I can see tho oil coming out from here and then the above pictures with the cracked broken jug...
carb3 005.jpg
carb3 005.jpg [ 319.61 KiB | Viewed 1639 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
He did give me his old Engine that he blew up so I guess I can practice on that, although It Is Junk Also... Broke a rod and ruined the dome and piston, but didn't tear up the jug. He said this was a big bore kit with a hot cam... I just wanted a trustworhy Engine LOL now I have 2 that I can't use ! LOL


Attachments:
carb3 012.jpg
carb3 012.jpg [ 322.69 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 013.jpg
carb3 013.jpg [ 323.18 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 014.jpg
carb3 014.jpg [ 322.79 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 015.jpg
carb3 015.jpg [ 320.81 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 016.jpg
carb3 016.jpg [ 323.45 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 017.jpg
carb3 017.jpg [ 321.36 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
:shock:


Attachments:
carb3 018.jpg
carb3 018.jpg [ 321.53 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
carb3 019.jpg
carb3 019.jpg [ 319.94 KiB | Viewed 1725 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Wichita ks
Dang tubo. Look on the bright side it's an easy fix and you can replace the cam chain and adjust the valves when you replace the head gasket. You can also check the static of the valves. $200.00 and your up and running. Since your apart maybe hone and rering. Heck maybe even thown in a 12 to 1. I do like the suspenion set up however the stock rear spring should go and replace with a zero preload set up. Then it will carve like no body business. I think "H" said some where "red silacone buyer beware".

That head can be fixed. Heck I've seen a lot worse a whole lot worse. The damage you see there is from not setting up the valve train right and it floated and smaked the piston.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
adnoh wrote:
Dang tubo. Look on the bright side it's an easy fix and you can replace the cam chain and adjust the valves when you replace the head gasket. You can also check the static of the valves. $200.00 and your up and running. Since your apart maybe hone and rering. Heck maybe even thown in a 12 to 1. I do like the suspenion set up however the stock rear spring should go and replace with a zero preload set up. Then it will carve like no body business. I think "H" said some where "red silacone buyer beware".

I can't blame no one but myself...LOL I also found out that the real linkage is in backwards... Every nut on all 4 wheels are backwards... Just one thing after
another LOL I am concerned that the corner that is broken is going to ruin the jug, and he said he helicoiled a new bolt into the bottom end somewhere???
to many projects not enough ride time...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5245
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra-aBikwHYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra-aBikwHYI

sure wish I knew how to embed these???


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