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 Post subject: Lines on the floor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Now that we have discussed spring rates, wheel travel against shock travel, attitude and the dreaded Wheel weights. Looked at pictures, charts and graphs I’m hoping this takes set, no pun intended. I have mentioned this in my ramblings. As I turn or pitch it into a corner I have the rear shock cross over to get on the main spring at its rate or final rate with the low speed compression adjuster set for the machine to take set. No why is this important to me? I will get to that so bare with me.

Before I ramble on about that lets first look at how I got there. As mentioned I changed my rear spring set and then the front from a full on dune package to an all around performer. In the woods things are a little tighter so good steering response and turn in ability is critical. From an overall handling stand point I need to identify a few areas of concern for static suspension setting. After all this is not a Quad or UTV so there basically is not a lot of information out there on these setting. I also have went and messed with what Honda designed for all around performance. I also have watched a lot of pilot video with different suspension and set ups in the dunes wood etc. I learned a lot by watching and listing to the video. After reading Go look and see what I mean watching the wheel and throttle positions ( sound) and where in the turn and when they let off on turn in and back on the gas paying attention to the hands on the breaks and when applied and let off. Pay close attention to the wheel whip on the steering wheel. This plays into this section of babble.

Since I have a TRX set up on front and home made on the rear based on an ATVR long travel nothing out there applies to my set up other than a base line and what I have set up. This leads us into Rake and the way the pilot is set up stock and the effects on my TRX arms. SO go look at my pictures again or your pilot and will see that the lower arms are at an angle based on the frame angling up in the front. The front lower arm pivot is higher than the lower arm rear pivot. Remember me placing an angle finder there in the attitude discussion. You can also see why I want this static position within 10 to 15 degrees at Ride height or free sag. This is a setting for the base line TRX set up on a pilot. Now 10 to 15 is a lot or lee way (Hi Lee) however this can easy be dialed in based on spring rates, the final rate for a dual rate set up to achieve different handling results. We have also discussed a little on Free sag or Ride height in way of %. This plays a part in this discussion due to the Rake built in to the frame of the pilot. FYI some call this Rake, Caster and if not listing close to the conversation you can confuse it with the caster of the wheel so I use Rake instead. I also measure this in degrees or the angle at Ride height.

So what you might ask and woopeee dooo daaa.

So I posted a teaser picture in headache post. There was lines drawn on the ground with the machine at ride height The lines at the wheel drawn at 90 degrees from the wheel is the effect of the rake on the wheel spindle center from Shock extended to shock collapsed or full travel. Then I have the sag set and draw a new line on the wheel spindle center. I set this to be a 50/50. See how the attitude has an effect on this rake setting. As the wheel encounters a bump it move the center line back during compression allowing the wheel to move more in a reward motion during compression rather than straight up helping not only with traction on the wheel but impact on the shock shaft speed. At a 50/50 and woops are encountered the wheel will move forward on extension than have a great arc on compression. Keep in mind the rear does this same thing and mine is not ATVR or stock which means I can have the rear follow the front not upsetting the overall wheel centers during vertical wheel movements.

Let’s look at a graph showing this rate of Rake to wheel movement.

I added a second rake called Rake 2 which looking at the two you can see how a decrease in Rake per inch, rake effects the vertical movement and produces a much sharper angle that the dampener has to deal with. Just imagine the wheel moving on these two lines in with the same amount of force. Rake 2 will have a greater velocity due its increases angle.


Attachments:
Resize of IMG_20201216_093917554.jpg
Resize of IMG_20201216_093917554.jpg [ 36.57 KiB | Viewed 1513 times ]
Rake in inches.jpg
Rake in inches.jpg [ 64.38 KiB | Viewed 1513 times ]
Rake in inches 50% sag.jpg
Rake in inches 50% sag.jpg [ 65.83 KiB | Viewed 1513 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Lines on the floor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
adnoh wrote:
I learned a lot by watching and listing to the video. After reading Go look and see what I mean watching the wheel and throttle positions ( sound) and where in the turn and when they let off on turn in and back on the gas paying attention to the hands on the breaks and when applied and let off. Pay close attention to the wheel whip on the steering wheel.


What video ??
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Lines on the floor
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
youber tubbbbeeeee


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