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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I am bringing my stuff to let you brainstorm on it for awhile... As soon as possible Maybe you can show me how to set up shock adjustments??? And then I can Be the one eating the Sand sandwiches!!!
:-)
Nice job!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
I am more of a fan of moving the inboard side where it connects to the frame but only because the arm will hit on the frame if you can extend it out where you are and still clear the frame I say go for it looks much faster and easier.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
I follow ya. If you do what you propose the shock spring may hit arm with a longer shock due to lever ratio. If a new arm was built with minor adjusment the stock shock mounts will work with 11" of travle. The problem is the stock ratio will not allow a shock to be built without a very large resavor( beer can size). Works likes to work with a max of 5.5 " stroke and the only varivle ifs the lever ratio. FOr those not nowing what that is it is the amount of stroke movement verses the arm movment.

So 1 to 1 is 1" of wheel travle 1" of shock travle, which is to say the shock is at 90 deg.. So a 2 to 1 would be 12" wheel travle 6" of shock travle. Change anlge in relation to arm mount changes this # . so lower the mount and shorting the shock increasing the angle can achieve this #. The problem with the fl is not much room to work and I calculate a relocate kit to 6.5 " stroke at 20 degrees. this will give it 10" of wheel travle. So a lot more work will be needed.

On the rake issue on new arms I will share some pre limb #s since you brought it up and got otheres wondering. Hub at # 3 deg back a 2" or 8 Deg transition from full droop to full top out. A camber adjustment can effect this an I will as I get shock data intered in to the mix. Transition rate and final spring rate will change this #.

Turbo rembr I,am no pro. I will help if I can rembering just a hacker like your self. I know first thing I would do is rework bump kit and change front #s. You have too much front wheel travle to work well with stock rear. This is why I will measure up sticks to see what can be done. I feel a change in rear will wake the front up and bring it back in line. Just prlimb # but I calculate a decrease of 3" in front and add 4" in rear not knowing your weight bias. and wheel base. Put bath scale under rear tire and set in bike and have son get # then do same for front. measutre distance center line front hub to rear at sag, then get centerline of wheels front and rear. To complacted to infom how to get scrub #s for propers calculation. I do not express proccedures right. My mind say on thing and my fingers say another. sorry. Hope yours is up and running and get to chew some sand with ya soon. An example of weight bias ( balance) is on mine front 210 lb per side rear and 130 lb per side front at sag with seat postion at thrid slot.

Thanks all, for the support on this project Rich.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
The last pic in your post with the extended arm to the ball joint- IMO that is a very weak design. You have lost all the strength of the triangulation of the oem arm. I assume you don't want to cut up your stock arms at this point, to early in the R&D process. That arm is pretty simple, maybe build a new one with heims to give you camber and toe adj. and the strength that you will need?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:39 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Northern Kentucky
Random question, but what is the make and model of your rear tires?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
good points on new arm I feel a new arm would also be better. one thing to consider is the way the shock clearences the arm using stock arm. the support arm in the rear of new arm can be moved out and the front can be move an inch before it rumbs spring. I though about using heims but this may be to hard to line up due to to many adjustments. Ill post a diff pic showing clearences.

The rear tire are a prowedge pw 501, 22/11/9. They work pretty well for low powered machines and ride on top very smooth. I like to do fast trail ridding so there my tire of choice.


Attachments:
clearence of arm bolt to stock mount.jpg
clearence of arm bolt to stock mount.jpg [ 70.62 KiB | Viewed 670 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
axle clearences.


Attachments:
axle at full droop.jpg
axle at full droop.jpg [ 60.37 KiB | Viewed 632 times ]
axle at ride height.jpg
axle at ride height.jpg [ 55.83 KiB | Viewed 632 times ]
axle at full top out.jpg
axle at full top out.jpg [ 60.08 KiB | Viewed 632 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
cv #'s


Attachments:
inboard clearence at full droop.jpg
inboard clearence at full droop.jpg [ 56.44 KiB | Viewed 630 times ]
inboard clearence at full top out.jpg
inboard clearence at full top out.jpg [ 42.49 KiB | Viewed 630 times ]
outboard clearence at full droop.jpg
outboard clearence at full droop.jpg [ 71.01 KiB | Viewed 630 times ]
outboard clearence at full top out.jpg
outboard clearence at full top out.jpg [ 69.55 KiB | Viewed 630 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Went ot bolt up newrear shocks and what the heck. Told ya I was not very good at math. Dooop!


Attachments:
File comment: This is what happens when you make a last minute change and do not run all the numbers.
OOPS.jpg
OOPS.jpg [ 97.52 KiB | Viewed 342 times ]
File comment: Even the kat was mad
ERRRRR.jpg
ERRRRR.jpg [ 105.99 KiB | Viewed 601 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Ok ran off kat and scrathed my head and went to work.


Attachments:
MAking templete.jpg
MAking templete.jpg [ 62.25 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]
Other side.jpg
Other side.jpg [ 74.18 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]
I think it will hold.jpg
I think it will hold.jpg [ 83.32 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]
FIrst mock up.jpg
FIrst mock up.jpg [ 119.43 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Any thought on Quick fix. Have another Idea that will allow the stock mount to be used and change the lower rear moving it out


Attachments:
New mount.jpg
New mount.jpg [ 88.03 KiB | Viewed 594 times ]
Bottom measurment.jpg
Bottom measurment.jpg [ 78.5 KiB | Viewed 594 times ]
Full extend measurment.jpg
Full extend measurment.jpg [ 82.42 KiB | Viewed 594 times ]
GC.jpg
GC.jpg [ 74.28 KiB | Viewed 594 times ]
GC extended.jpg
GC extended.jpg [ 97.55 KiB | Viewed 594 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
OH SHIZZLE! Hey look on the bright side, as a result do you get any more travel?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Some fun pics. I know "H" and BAZ and others like pics.


Attachments:
Full bottomed.jpg
Full bottomed.jpg [ 83.51 KiB | Viewed 649 times ]
Full extended.jpg
Full extended.jpg [ 95.38 KiB | Viewed 649 times ]
Side view full bottomed.jpg
Side view full bottomed.jpg [ 74.57 KiB | Viewed 649 times ]
Side view full extended.jpg
Side view full extended.jpg [ 72.78 KiB | Viewed 649 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
I have more fun pics.. I failed to mention there is no bindiing on any parts,Thank goodness. Full bottom and top there free movment on axles ,shocks, trailing arms and steering. I will now disassemble and install springs and set ride height.


Attachments:
A limbo contender.jpg
A limbo contender.jpg [ 61.65 KiB | Viewed 646 times ]
Getting low.jpg
Getting low.jpg [ 70.07 KiB | Viewed 646 times ]
Beep Beep.jpg
Beep Beep.jpg [ 66.94 KiB | Viewed 646 times ]
Pilot on steroids.jpg
Pilot on steroids.jpg [ 85.54 KiB | Viewed 646 times ]
steriods 2.jpg
steriods 2.jpg [ 93.82 KiB | Viewed 646 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Yea I do woo hoo. When I rebuild upper arm moving lower unit out and relocate lower shock mount it will gain 1-1/4" more. This will allow the upper to bolt onto stock mount and get ride of the quick fix.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Like Tony Tiger says that's grrrrreat! Plus its just looks swell!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Thanks, want drive it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Looking sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Cant wait to here how it runs with the new shocks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Yea....Looks like lots of blood sweat and tears(of joy of course) invested so I really hope it helps with the rear trying to hop back and forth, cant wait to drive he he, when you goin to LS


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3423
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Thanks for the pics Richie Rich! :-)
Yes me and H love pics....But why do you tease us with your let down photo's?
This is my only complaint,as your pics don't do your work JUSTICE!
For example,when it's sunny out,you take the pics in the tree shade,and now in the dark!
You are a BuggyTease! :-)
Love your work,but it's the "where's Wally" detail that we spy for! Image
When are you coming to the Land Downunder to Pit Crew for me at the Northam Races which start in a couple of weeks? Stay at the house of Baz.We will Barbie and drink straight from my Keganator every night,and every arvo you will have the choice of 1xStd and 1x Neil's ex ATV Racing LT500 Pilots ,plus the DrakULite to hack on the track.
On ya Mate!Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Thanks to all for the support and feed back. The feed back really help with any project, an extra set of eyes tend to shead lite on where and what to do. Thanks. I have some final photos to share and also an update on upper relocate bracket. I will post in new thred Titled: Almost done.

Baz,as far as down under goes, Tobey and I have talked about it. I watched a show the other day on you fine country. It was based on the wild life and I for one would like to see the tasmanian devil in person. That marsupal interests me. As far as pit crrew I would like nothing more I love the sound and smell it get my blood pumping. I will keep playing the lottery just incase. I have not forgoten about your nerf mock ups I will do this winter and form out of molded pvc in case they need to be shiped or dropped off. I will make two set, one for stock and one for long travle width. Do they have the red lable( budweiser) there for us american lightweights. Good luck on your up coming season I will be watching for your post.

Stixs, I was going this weekend but its going to be cold and I have conserns on my spring rates The calc and my head are having conflicts. That's to say I do not believe there right. I will need to run on track first to see which is right and I hope I'am wrong. Do not want a lumber truck on my hands. I think they sent me razor springs not DCP pilot springs and the razor springs are all wrong( handles like a wet terd). I Think they based them on a progressive instead of linaer rates UHHHHH. Wrong key on calculater. I will need to trust the guys with the education and sometimes that's hard for me to do.


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