I'm with Oddy...Drive that bitch!
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| Dave-Co Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19642 |
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| Author: | bullnerd [ Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
I'm with Oddy...Drive that bitch!
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
First drive is tomorrow. I've got both pilots locked and loaded ready to go. Final prep on the Dave-Co. I re-set suspension sag since the PO changed everything around and had stuff all over the place. I set my sag to 25% all the way around. Also I'm really enjoying working on what Greg started. Seems Greg really did me a favor and always used either loctite on items needing to stay put, OR anti-seize on items needing to be serviced. Makes working on this machine a pleasure. Also this pilot is actually in a bit better shape than my original pilot; despite the crack plastics. Such as; I can tell the rear caliper on this one has a lot less slope/wear. The frame seems to be a bit better shape as well. I cleaned up some of the PO's attempt as crappie LED lights. Hate those things made in china. They just don't last at all. Especially with all the fiddly spliced wires and all. I put the headlights and taillights back to stock/normal and fixed up a bunch of awful butt spliced wires with new soldered and shrink-wrap, followed by E-Tape; wire loom, and then a final/second layer of E-Tape. People who don't know electrical should just stay out of it for crying out loud. Back on the Engine for a sec. Last week I flushed the coolant and took the head off for a minute. To my surprise; I found an OE/Art piston measuring 80mm with an original jug which has not been re-sleeved. So the top-end is original bore. WOW! Now, the top piston ring does seem to have about 40~50 thousandths of ring-end-gap which is out of spec - but to play fair my old pilot was at 120 thousandths and was still running. Compression on this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is at 175psi with the Speedchaser head; so I'm going to run it! In the meantime; I'll be looking for an 80.25mm Honda piston and 80.25 or 80.5 Honda/OE rings. Anyone got one that they might sell? |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Back from the first day of testing and tuning. I’m a little disappointed but everything should be alright. Lots to do to get this machine in-line. First, Engine wouldn’t rev out. On my wideband af was pegged rich with the 185 main so much so the machine felt faster at 1/2 throttle than it did at full throttle, because 1/2 throttle was a reading about 12.5. Ended up reducing to a ~170 main and finally the a/f is in the high 11s. Target is still 12.2 though. Leaning the main made the needle way too lean (DGH) and so I dropped in an EEF needle. That overly richened the off-isle hit, but re-fixed 1/4 thru 3/4. It’s running a 6.0 slide now, but I ran out of patience. It needs a 6.5 slide now to fix off-idle. Full still rich so I think a 165 or 168 main will dial it in. Can’t say anything bad about wide-band tuning. It saved me once again the guessing in carb tuning. That’s it for tuning. I should have better results after the next session. Before I go more drop on the main, I need to fix the PB clutch. It is up shifting much to quickly. Need to remove 2-4 weights per block. That should get the rpm back up and maybe even change the tune. One of the cv boots started spraying grease just under the driver clutch. Will fix it over the next few days. Machine is running ITP Mudlites. Not sure I like these tires at all. I’m so used to ITP Holeshots from my other pilot; the ability to power slide, drift, trail brake; etc is lost with the Mudlites. I’m going to hang in there though because maybe just maybe the Mudlites might hold lines better for track use - but for trail riding I’m afraid they may be no-go. Parked this pilot. Went back out on my other pilot and it was fantastic! |
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| Author: | go oddy [ Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Tomorrow is here, I hope all is/went well with the ride. Edit.... ha, you beat me |
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| Author: | fully [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
all I have ever know is the mud lites. interesting that you don't like them |
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| Author: | CurtisR401 [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
fully wrote: all I have ever know is the mud lites. interesting that you don't like them I agree. I have always thought it was a good tire & provided lots of traction for trail riding. I haven't got stuck with them yet. If you are trying to drift, maybe to much traction as it is a meaty tire. I would think the holeshots would be better for track use and would break free easier for drifting. The mud-lite is also a larger tire than the holeshot. Maybe that is playing a factor in it? I have been considering dropping down to a 22" rear tire. Do you have a photo of the 2 tires side by side? How much smaller are they really? I know some tires will physically measure different than what they are listed as. Bummer you had issues with it the first ride but it sounds like you have a plan to get it resolved. |
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| Author: | adnoh [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
if you go smaller on the rear tire make sure you don't bottom out the frame before the shock does. You can let the air out of the tires then remove springs and let it go down to see whee your at. Or you can just remove shock and use an eye to eye number. if it does than you may need to re-position the upper shock mount and redial in the links. I do not know what tire he used when he designed it. For some reason i thought he used a taller tire. May want to ask around A good rule of thumb is tires no air (to simulate spring load) 1.5 inch clearance to frame. Then you can just add more sag to take care of change and change the cross over point (if available) to maintain bottom out poundage and not upset balance. |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Thanks guys I’ll hold off on changing out tires for now. Once I get proper power output and play around a bit I’ll know more about how these tires fare. I took apart the PowerBlok clutch. It was an older style which did not have the D shaft. Seems as though the outer shiv may have been spinning also. The inner half has more wear than the outer. Also the clutch has 12 weights each block. That would explain some of the fast up shifting. Lucky I have a spare brand new FL400 PowerBlok clutch! It has the D shaft. I installed it with 7 weights in each block. I think I run 8 in my other pilot. Two axle boots have pinhole leaks. I had to order boots and also a cv joint separator to get the outer boot off. I need the separator because my axles are lengthened and the outer boot can not slide inward. I’ll use the separator twice likely. I pulled the right side axle stub out. It came out pretty easy. Looks like PO stuffed the inside full of anti seize. Nice. |
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| Author: | adnoh [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
At 7 or 8 you have a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) mod done on the new one. Hate for ya to chase your tall on jetting when it hit the limiter and you o2 telling something else. New alt with black spring and washer? Those are hard to come by these days. Look forward to your results. I enjoy reading. Thanks. |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Yes I did my CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) mod as found here. Its been working well for almost 2 years on that other pilot. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17899&p=173287#p173286 |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
I got to ride this machine a bunch this past weekend. Its a blast, but as anything needs some tweaking! The tires are, 'Meh'. The machine tends to push more than rotate. that's something I think I can get used to though. Nothing broke! Yeay! No dice on the 7-weights per puck. She was reving up to 8,000 rpm like that. I jumped up twice and ended at 10-weights per puck. This puts quick engagement at 7400 rpm, and hard WOT (Wide Open Throttle) runs at 7100 rpm. The carb tuning is coming along. PWK39. The machine likes a 168 main jet the best. 45 pilot. Needle is currently an EEF in the richest position. Theres a slight lean spot at 3/4 throttle, but raising the main eats up WOT (Wide Open Throttle) performance. I'm thinking of trying FEG or even GFF needles in it next as the E needle taper doesn't seem to be steep enough. I may also briefly try the stock J35A needle as that one I believe is very steep. The front suspension is awesome. I love the powersteering. There is no bump-steer, and feels great. I only had to adjust front right toe-out slightly. Now both fronts are at about 1/4" toe-out. The rear suspension has a problem. On hard jumps the ass-end of the pilot hits the ground hard just below the transmission. The rear skid plate is taking a beating. My options to fix this are as follows: 1. Increase tire height. Currently at 24" tall tires. I guess I could go to 26" to gice an extra inch of clearance. 2. Increase tire pressure. I was running 6psi. I guess I could try about 8psi. 3. Decrease sag on the current springs. Currently running about 20% sag. Maybe drop that to 10~15% 4. Replace springs with something different. Increase spring rates of either one or both of the stacked Eibach springs. 5. Add maybe a 1~2" bump stop to the shocks 6. Increase air pressure inside the shock to slow compression travel for landings. 7. Remove the rear skid. This will add about 3/4" of clearance. Basically, options 1, 2, 5, and 7 are the two only real ways to prevent the rear undercarraige from touching the ground. 2, 3, 4, & 6 are only bandaids for the problem; but honestly those probably need to be reviewed. I think my spring rates are much too soft. Lots of body roll in the corners. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | Garemie [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Looks like you know the answer to that question already. Better spring rate for your weight and adding a bumpstop for proper travel limit is the way to go I think. Loving the progress on this machine, any more cool pics? |
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| Author: | Kuma [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
ZeroClient wrote: but honestly those probably need to be reviewed. I think my spring rates are much too soft. Lots of body roll in the corners. Thoughts? What springs do you have in now? have you tried changing where the cross over kicks in? also not difficult to change the shim stack to add more compression damping. |
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| Author: | nitrosport_5 [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
ZeroClient wrote: The rear suspension has a problem. On hard jumps the ass-end of the pilot hits the ground hard just below the transmission. My Dave-Co pilot does the same, but only if I hit somthing really hard. If you choose taller tires, watch the fenders. I have a set of 25x11-10 on mine and the tires will make contact with the fenders. |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Kuma, Uppers: Eibach 1200.250.0080 Lowers: Eibach 1200.250.0100 I don’t think my shocks have a crossover. I presume that’s some kind of stopper for the middle perch? Where is the shim stack for compression? |
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| Author: | bullnerd [ Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Won't Taller rear tires will increase the front end pushing? Probably need to weigh the car with you in it to get the correct rear springs. Is the front track width wider or the same on these dave cars? Pics of how it sits with you in it? |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:52 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot | ||||
Ok so I did see crossover plates on my rear shocks. They are all the way at the top, ie completely disabled! I’ll lower them, but does anyone have a crossover position suggestion?
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| Author: | Kuma [ Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
ZeroClient wrote: Kuma, Uppers: Eibach 1200.250.0080 Lowers: Eibach 1200.250.0100 I don’t think my shocks have a crossover. I presume that’s some kind of stopper for the middle perch? Where is the shim stack for compression? so with the springs you have on your current spring rate is about 60#/inch (I think this is correct) without going through the cross over then that is it all the way through, once the cross over is engaged you will be only on the lowers at 100#/inch. so you can go from there, I have an understanding that you would typically setup the sag for about 1/4 to 1/3 of the stroke and the cross over to hit at the top 1/3 to 1/4 of the of the stroke, you can think of it as a bit of a bump stop. please do not take what I say as the gospel, my suspension has a long way to go on my pilot but that's another thread :) |
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| Author: | bullnerd [ Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Damn Z! You live in Georgia or sumthin? lol! Why is the front end so high? Does it have any droop left in it? Your rear tires have a lot of traction, part of the push issue I bet. Look at the tires on your other pilot. And if the front is stuck up that high all the time, that's not helping. |
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| Author: | fully [ Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
that's how Dave-Co designed them, to sit tall like that. looks bad ass for sure. |
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| Author: | bullnerd [ Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Looks cool, but not the best for handling or suspension function. Depends on the terrain I guess. If your doing deep ruts you'd need the clearance. |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:09 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot | ||
Looking for advice on the crossover setup of these rear shocks. I have crossover rings at the top, which can certainly move all the way down. The problem is I want to move the crossover ring further down than the amount of thread available on the actual shock. Cant do that. So, I think the solution is to put some spacer between the black spring perch and the crossover - to take up the un-threaded space. That should get the crossover points more in-tune at about ~30~40 % spring travel. Problem is I cannot find any such a spacer, or maybe I'm not sure what exactly they are called in fact. Crossover spacer or something? Another solution would be to get a much shorter upper spring, and a much longer lower spring (More like whats on Weeks shocks). Thoughts? Thanks
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| Author: | adnoh [ Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
I may be able to help. What I would need is the: Top and bottom spring rate. Top and bottom spring lenght Next you spring stack lenght at fully extended. Next at ride height, you exposed shaft lenght and new spring stack lenght. Put a bath scale under the rear tire and front tire with you in it. Then I can input the numbers intoy spread sheet and get you a start point and post for you to use. Adnoh |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
Do you want free spring length or sagged length? I've ordered some 7/8 bump stops. Also was thinking I could use some 2" ID aluminum tube for crossover spacers - maybe about 4" length? |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dave-Co Pilot |
I put 150lb in the driver seat, and 35lb in the foot well. 4x identical bath scales zero-ed out then put under each wheel FL #174 FR #178 RL #270 RR #263 Total wet riding weight with 185lb rider- #885 Machine total wet weight without rider comes out to #700 (that's a lot of shocks, heavy tires, frame extension, power steering, etc) Spring rates TOP: 80 BOT: 100 All in INCHES Rear LEFT | Rear RIGHT Spring Length COMPRESSED (At SAG) Top: 9 & 9/16 | 9 & 10/16 Bot: 9 & 15/16 | 10 & 3/16 Spring Lengths at EXTENSION (Lifted) Top: 10 & 11/16 | 10 & 11/16 Bot: 10 & 15/16 | 10 & 15/16 Spring lengths un-sprung are all supposed to be 12" from Eibach Spring Stack length (With middle perch) at extended 22" | 22" Spring Stack length at ride position (Sagged with weight) 20 & 6/16 | 10 & 6/16 Shock Shaft length at ride position - INCLUDING 0.6" Bump stop 10" | 10 & 8/16 |
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