the spread where the a arms bolt on was 5 3/8, so the inner needs to be in the middle of that at 2 11/16. have a few ideas just not sure what will work

don't go off what half the spread is. Your going to have to play with the location of the steering knuckle before you fully weld it up. Tack it into place and cycle the suspension with the complete system bolted together. It will take a while to get the sweet spot. You want no more then an 1/8th inch of bumpsteer throughout the motion of the suspension

is center a good place to start, and then adjust from there

"the spread where the a arms bolt on was 5 3/8, so the inner needs to be in the middle of that at 2 11/16. have a few ideas just not sure what will work"-forget this.

A good place to start is with the lower a-arm parallel to the ground.(ride height)You want the tie rod parallel with the lower a-arm.This will get you close to the center of the arc I mentioned earlier.

Heres the sketch I made for texas,take a look at it and tell me if you understand it .If not,I'll explain it.The red lines are the tie rod,and the blue arc is the outer tie rod end.The outer tie rod end points are what you need to find.This will tell you where the inner pivot needs to be.don't just start welding tabs everywhere.It is very easy to figure out with some cardboard and string or straight edge.

Ok,I went and looked at an old post where I explained this but it was for a rack.

Fully we can go through this step by step if you want?If you don't,I would rather not take the time to type it all out.If you do,it might help others doing custom suspensions.

First thing you need to do is figure out the tie-rod length.
This is very easy because you are using an exsisting spindle with steering arm on it already.

Set the lower arm level with the ground.(ride hieght)

Put a piece of tape between the pivot points on the frame and a seperate piece of tape between the pivot points on the spindle.

Do this on the "front" of your spindle so the arm is not in the way.

Put a mark (dot with marker)on the spindle tape at the same height as the steering arm pivot.(roughly center of the tie rod end ball joint)in line with the pivots(ball joints)

Now put a dot on the tape you put between the inner frame pivots(inline with the bolts) at the same height as the outer dot.Use a level or a straight edge or a piece of string or eyeball it.

The distance between these two dots is roughly the tie rod length.

Lets start with that.You have to have the tie rod lenght before continuing.

I'll mark up one of your pics.

White is tape,red is tie rod end points.It was easier to draw a line than a dot.Do this with the arm level to the ground.



Piece of cake so far.

bullnerd, i am kind of following i think i need to reread it again..

if you need i can take different pics for you. i really appreciate the help.

what are you guys using for tie rods, are you buying one from a different bike or just making them yourselfs

Yeah,its hard to explain,but easy to do.
Take a pic from the front with the lower arm parallel to the ground.One side only.
I don't own a pilot so cant help on the balljoints.I would check with Shoubadaba.

ok heres a pic, i put my level in the shock mount to get level, was the only decent place that had no welds.

I see a problem.
It looks like Shoubadaba used the stock spindle?The tie rod attaching point is much lower.
Yours is very high,the tie rod has no where to go ,the frame is in the way.

The tie rod must run as close to parallel as possible to the lower a-arm for -0- bumpsteer. and lenght wise as long or slightly longer than the lower a-arm, that should get you in the ballpark. Here is what we have

You will need to be lower on the spindle flag to do this, this is what we did

You can be up on the flag but your ride height will be front high if you get the bumpsteer right

dam i guess i should have made the whole thing lower lol...had i only seen this one coming..

so i need to make something like you did to make this work properly then...top bad you could't just turn the spindle upside down lol..

with that plate on there that you had made, how does the brake calliper fit now, wouldn't it be moved out a bit

The caliper goes on the other side no problem. The bolt goes thru the brace we made and theads into the caliper.

you have any other pics of it..looks like you still bolted it to the original flag..

this statement kind of confuses me..with the arm level to the ground its almost at full compression. ride height will be a lot closer to max droop.. not sure i understand the ride height thing

Yeah,A lot of people set them with the front jacked way up in the air.With you in the car ready to ride ,the lower should be pretty close to parallel to the ground,a little higher depending on terrain you plan to ride.I call it ride height.You definately don't want it at max droop.

Your pretty much going to have to do what JW did and mount tierod from the bottom of that arm.His pics are really good.

You need to figure out where your shocks will go first before you build the bumpsteer to figure out your max extension on the front. Also your tierod doesnt need to be paralle with the lower arm. that's how I started and ended up not level with the lower arm its slightly lower on the frame side it all depends on how much caster you have in the spindel. I took some pics tonight of my sons odyssey and a atv racing bumpsteer kit on a LT pilot Im working on for pro-pilot-popper

heres some

"You need to figure out where your shocks will go first before you build the bumpsteer to figure out your max extension on the front"

I was going to get to this,I was going to try to go step by step and not just throw a bunch of random info at him,it looks like that isnt going to work.The tie rod length is still the same regardless of the total travel.

"doesnt need to be parallel with the lower arm"-This is true,but it is a good starting spot.The front suspension is a simple linkage,parellel linkages are easier to set up.Ultimately you need to find the center of the outer tie rod arc,which is where I was headed.

Fully-Shoubadaba and JW have more experiance with the pilots than I do.I would follow what they say.

i am all ears.i want to do it right and not half assed. so i am willing to try what has worked for other and set it up properly

As I said, its a good starting point. We ended up with the frame side of the tie rod a little higher. Yours may be different depending on tie rod lenght, flag location....ect.

Yeah start in the middle. The way JW did the spindels looks like an awsome set up for your spindles as well. I used the stock ones and modified them to match a pilots. I also modeled my bumpsteer after atv racings kit. So first built the mounts for the spindles and get your shocks mounted up. Then you can set up the steering. Love the drawings that bull has done. I don't know all the tech words and formulas so any info in cad is a big help to me as well bull thanks

i don't have shocks right now, trying to find some as we speak, so many options...

can i still go ahead and set up the steering with out the shocks, i just won't make anything permanent until i get some shocks. or will the shocks throw everything out of wack..

With spring rolling in, there are a lot of sled parts on CL and eBay at out-the-barn-prices. Find some front Fox shocks with rezzies for the front out of a decent sized sled. I picked up a nice pair for $100 for my build.

I just want to say,I'm no pilot expert,just trying to help with what I can.
I want to back up to this picture,Is the wheel sitting tight against the hub?
If it is,Its not ideal to have the wheel go into posative camber like that.
Upper inner a-arm mounts are in the wrong spot.
Not terrible, but not sure what it will do when you take a corner,it will roll over to the outside of your tire.


You can figure out the steering without the shocks,but it would help to know where full droop(shock extended) will be.Full bump you don't need them because you want clearance under the car at full compression anyway.But we'll get to that.I made another picture. Tried to make it a little clearer,then we'll go back to the first one.See the red line-tie rod-this is APROXIMATELY how long(not where!)the tie rod should be.So,measure part way down on your spindle(same height as the outer tie rod pivot center,and inline verticaly with the upper and lower ball joints)to the same height on the line going vertically between your upper and lower control arms.This is where I said to put some tape between the bolts on the frame and on the spindle and just put a dot inline with the outer tierod and a dot inline with the pivot bolts on the frame and measure between the dots.Lets start with that.



Are you going to try to mod the outer tie rod end like JW did?I would.The closer to level and lower in your case you can get the tierod the better.

the wheel is not against the hub in that pic, it is just hanging on the studs. i did that just to get a rough idea the amount of wheel travel there is. that is at max compression.

there is also a camber mod that you can do on these stock arms, that i seen on the trx website, super easy to do and only cost $40. so if i am out a little bit, i will do that mod and see if it helps. but i plum bobbed everything so i should be close, but i am not a pro either lol.

yeah i planned on making something up like jw did today but ended trucking with a friend. so tonight i might try to get something together. if i can lower the link like he did i think it will work better

i did a really rough measure and its going to be around 13" will get a more precise measurement. but let say that 13" is the length, is that eye to eye.

that pic you made is way easier to understand. thanks