that's cool,the inner pivot points look good to me,couldnt figure out why the wheel was tilted.

Not sure what you mean by eye to eye.If you mean center of balljoint/pivot to center of balljoint/pivot then yes.This should be very close to your tie rod length.

Can you show where you measured?That might make it easier.

I'll put that pic back in that's gone.

i did the rough measure just about were you put that red line in that photo.

and yes center pivot to center pivot is what i meant. sorry, i said eye to eye cause i will probably end up using small hiem joints.

i will try to lower the tie rod somewhere around your red mark too

ok made some drop brackets today. i didn't drill the spindle flag out like jw did, so not sure if these will work or not. what do you think

i put a long bolt through just so you could see where the tie rod will attach. also did a better measurement and came up with 13.5" but i think that is going to be wrong because the mounting point on the spindle is moved closer to the frame now.

"mounting point on the spindle is moved closer to the frame now."-you cant go by that,go by the measurements like the pic I posted.Center of the spindle pivot/balljoint axis to center of the frame pivot axis.

Nice bracket BTW.

Can you take a pic straight down from the top of the spindle,with it straight?

What are you going to use for the outer balljoint?Rod end?

that measurement of 13.5 is from pivot to pivot. i even had the wife out there to help me measure lol..

hope that first pic is what you wanted, if not i can take another

and i only have two of those heims that came off the old tie rods, so i need to go get some new ones

That looks good.
Do you have misalignment spacers for the outer tie rod end?
Do you have any way to make a mock up tie rod?Like use the two rod ends and attach them to something relatively straight,like that piece of tubing.Make it 13-1/2".Doesnt have to be tie-rod strong,just enough to use it as a compass/trammel.

Not sure what misalignment spacers are.

And for tie rods I was just going to use that tubing. The tie rod needs to be 13.5. That center of rod end to center on rod end.

I just need to get another nut for the rod ends. Weld one to the tubing then thead the end in and tighten the other nut up against the welded nut. I think it should work

http://www.kartek.com/Product/Fabrication/Hi-Mis.html

You don't need the actual tie rod at this point,just a mock up so you can continue to build front end.It may change anyway.

yeah i am going to need to get some of them alignment spacers. hopefully i can find some locally . will try and find something tomorrow to use as a mock up tie rod, i only have enough of that tube to make the tie rods,

Yeah the Kartek ad was just for the pic,should be someone closer that carries them.You might only need them for the outside,not sure,if you run the inner ones horizontally you may not need them.Would be nice to see how some of the others guys did the inner pivots.Also there are Hi-mis alignment spacers and mis-alignment spacers,you want the hi's for the outside.

You don't need anything fancy to mock the tie rod.Jam it into some PVC tubing if you have it,as long as it holds its lenght fairly well.

i might even have some pvc around here that's a good idea

I just noticed you have works shocks,why wouldn't these work?
If the motion ratio is close they should work.Measure the old 350 arms from where they mount to the frame to the shock mount,then measure your new arms.Worst thing would be new springs?

eye to eye my works are 12.75 and the factory trx450r and the ltr 450 shocks are 17" so i would be loosing a lot of travel. i thought about doing it so i could use them but want to take full advantage of the long travel..fox shocks r what i really want but they come with a big price tag as well..


could find the pvc so i had some bigger tube and just tape it up..

didn't have time to go get some new heims and misalignment spacers. hopefully tomorrow i can get out and see what i can find.

with the spacers on it will be a little lower yet, so this pic is purely mock up only..

The outer needs to be pretty close to operational for the next step,has to pivot up and down through full range(wheel/shock travel) to find where the inner pivot will go.

Yeah,I see the shocks now,didnt realize how short they were.

Ok I will make something better up and try to get some misalignment spacers as well

got a surprise in the mail this morning. wasn't excepting them for another 5 days or so. so that was pretty cool..so i run out to put the fronts on and the fit nicely..

so i start working the wheel back and forth through the steering motion and with the newer pvc tie rod i made i notice that the brackets i made are going to be too long and i won't be able to steer as much as i should be able.

i can get the rod ends here but nobody seems to know anything about misalignment space are. so i am just going to have to figure out what size i need and order from ebay or something not sure at this point...what i am thinking is i might not need the brackets with the hi misalignment spacer, but not sure how level i will be able to get the tie rod with the a arm level

Nice wheels.
Not bad,you might have to shorten that spacer once you get the mis spacers.
Yeah you should've had the hi mis spacers to start with.
It looks like you have the arm drooped down pretty far,it might not need to go that far down?
You wont know until you figure out what shocks you'll be using.

That's at full extension. And stock shocks are about 17" eye to eye. That doesn't leave a lot of room to keep my fenders and I really want to keep them. I have been lookin at fox floats as well and not sure if they are 17" or 19. Either way when front tires are in the air it's probly going to use up all the suspension. Guess in hind sight I should have made the sub frame lower. That would have made more room for the shocks and steering.

Trig it out and see what shock travel you need to get your desired wheel travel (theoretical), within the limits of the arms' motion, of course. Then you can figure out where your upper mount would have to be located based on your different shock travel lengths. Obviously, the spring rating and the valving of your shock will also come into play at some point, but this is for ballpark figures.

The arc the lower shock mount strikes is smaller than the arc the lower ball joint makes. So since you know the dimensions of your lower arm, you can just trig it out.

Example...
> Lower frame mount -to- Lower ball joint = 12", so you have a 12" lower arm
> Lower frame mount -to- Lower shock mount = 8"
> Lower shock mount -to- Lower ball joint = 4"

Your lower shock mount will strike an 8" radius
Your lower ball joint will strike a 12" radius

With some sketching and trig work (SOH-CAH-TOA), on this geometry...
...a shock with 3" travel you will get ~4.5" travel at the lower ball (22-deg),
...a shock with 5" travel you will get ~7.5" travel at the lower ball (39-deg),
...a shock with 7" travel you will get ~10.5" travel at the lower ball (61-deg)

This way you will know what travel to expect, roughly, from different shocks. If you want exact results, step into the virtual world with 3D cad and play. At least, this is how I approach it.

Just don't forget about the shock performance -- spring rate, valving...dampening, rebound....etc.

i guess i should have paid attention in math class a little more lol.

that's one nice thing about fox evol shocks..everything it is tuned by the air pressure you put in there.
but most of the fox shocks that i have seen are 19' and i don't know if i can fit them in there with out cutting a hole in my fenders or possibly relocating the lower shock mount.

called fox today and for the evol the stock length is 17 eye to eye, and full compression is 12..my full compression is around 10. now i just did this with some mock up card board sticks so my measurements are not 100% just wanted to figure out where the top shock eyelet would go. will there be any problem with those shocks only compressing to 12" instead of 10"

What is stopping the shock from going to the full 10"? Will the arms or tie rods see any damage if "hyperextended"?

Nope,you have to make the top mounts anyway don't you?

yeah i haven't made any mounts for the top yet. just trying to figure things out so i can move forward with this project..

is it bad to bottom a shock out when there is more travel in the arms left.

Depends on the shock.

Set your lower arm to full bump,this is based on how much clearance you want under the car when bottomed out.

3"-4"? What is a stock pilot?that's what I would go with.

You want the shock to be close to 90 deg. to the lower arm at this point,with the shock compressed.

You will have to mess with the difference between full bump and full droop to get steering to clear.As in ,you may have to go a little more on full bump(less clearance under car)to get a little less droop.

I still wouldn't worry about mounting the shocks right now until you get the steering working.Shocks is the easy part.

I looked at one of your earlier posts with the wheel down,I don't think you will have any trouble fitting the shocks and keeping your fenders.This is what I would do.Make a bracket that curves out from under the fender and up under it.Make a small bracket that runs through the fender to pick up the frame.Again ,its hard to do this with out being there.