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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Tpreed wrote:
Thanks hoser! I'm gonna clarify what i said previously real quick. I didn't mean approved as in you approved in the kit design lol, just approved of my install so Mudbogger can sleep at night. ;)

I'm gonna be finishing up little tasks today
Loctite all around for the bolts that aren't long enough
New nylon lock nuts for the lower heims
Purchase mityvac and bleed brakes.


Thanks for doing that for me as I just wanted to make sure the installation of the kit was satisfactory. The design of the kit was never and will never be "approved' by any means unless your 'ROOKY' AND OR A DARKSIDER. Anybody here remember Steve B had stated in past years "patent pending' LMAO. Or "that was a blem kit? They all ARE BLEMS DOUCHEBAG! every kit has this same issue-go look at them!!!
I HAD POSTED YEARS back some negative findings on those lower joints, and got the snot beat out of me by his supporters-it was always 'swept under the rug" by liewire,atvnut,pilothawk and all the darksiders,but it never was addressed and fixed. Tha'ts exactly why when I sent this to Tim it came with a request/waiver to have Hoser give it a once over to check the installation out, not redesign or approve the design flaws that we all have come to find with his shit products.You have to get a fabricator like I did for that!!
He made a killing though, got me for a ton of money when I first got into the POOA! :-) Shame on me, live and learn the say!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
Thanks hoser! I'm gonna clarify what i said previously real quick. I didn't mean approved as in you approved in the kit design lol, just approved of my install so Mudbogger can sleep at night. ;)

I'm gonna be finishing up little tasks today
Loctite all around for the bolts that aren't long enough
New nylon lock nuts for the lower heims
Purchase mityvac and bleed brakes.


Thanks for doing that for me as I just wanted to make sure the installation of the kit was satisfactory. The design of the kit was never and will never be "approved' by any means unless your 'ROOKY' AND OR A DARKSIDER. Anybody here remember Steve B had stated in past years "patent pending' LMAO. Or "that was a blem kit? They all ARE BLEMS DOUCHEBAG! every kit has this same issue-go look at them!!!
I HAD POSTED YEARS back some negative findings on those lower joints, and got the snot beat out of me by his supporters-it was always 'swept under the rug" by liewire,atvnut,pilothawk and all the darksiders,but it never was addressed and fixed. Tha'ts exactly why when I sent this to Tim it came with a request/waiver to have Hoser give it a once over to check the installation out, not redesign or approve the design flaws that we all have come to find with his shit products.You have to get a fabricator like I did for that!!
He made a killing though, got me for a ton of money when I first got into the POOA! :-) Shame on me, live and learn the say!!



So everybody that calls for customer support gets told they were sold a blem kit sounds like Steve Bishop (Professional Liar) 100% that is the kind of guy he is, makes sense now, seems everything he sells is a "blem" remember the "blem" manifolds he was selling.

Buyer beware of this mutt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
shoubadaba, posted the quote I used I just missed putting it in. I was hopinf he would explain a little more. sorry for any confusing.

"H" Yea there should be some kid of retainer on the spanner nut. They do make some cool new ones that are a single however you would know them if you seen them. We usally use them in the rear of a quad were it a pain to adjust.

If you went to zero preload or the springs free lenght there is nothing more that can be done untill a rate change is made. If nothing is keeping the spanner from turning looser it will lead to issues or broken parts. The first would be scratching the shaft. I was hoping that tension comment and preload adjustment would be expanded upon since if there is preload there is tension and it does effect a few things like the first inch or so depending on setting of compression once it is unloaded or sags. The suspenion as it goes into bump from ride height the rate does not change if a single rate and if it transitions from a muti rate. However the amount of shaft travle under preload does. If you look at a simple 100 pound rate and the preload is at 50 lbs and the sag is 1" than it will take 150 lbs of force to compress the first 1" of the shock from its full expanded position. If we take it a few steps futher you can see how this will change a few things like you full compression poundage or when you go from sag to full bump, leaving out valving pressure etc. Lets say that above example had 5" of shaft and the sag was 1 or 150 lbs then you had 400 lbs remaing before the shock bottom out if it goes from sag to full bump 4x100=400. now lets say the shock unloads first then you have 400+150=550. Now lets remove the preload and we say by doing this we increas the sag another inch which leaves us with 3" of shaft at sag. Yes the front end is lower however it will bottom eaisier and this is how. From sag to full bump at the 100 lbs rate you bottom poundage is now 3x100=300 and futher more if the shock goes to full extension first than the bottom poundage is 5x100=500 lbs. since thee is no preload the force per inch would equall the rate. Now we can see why dual triple orquad rate are our friends. If we reduce preload we can change the transition t the heavier rate quicker to maintain or bottom poundage. if we had adjusteres or high speed circuits some of the new lower bottom poundage can helps though the valving. keep in mind increased valving increasesthe shocks heat load.

Back to the example compare the two sag poundage numbers and you will see the results of you adjustment and there effects You just removed 50lbs of force which will have an effect on rebound and as we know rebound valving is usally around 4 times greater than compression. Now the shock will rebound slower through its last two inches of its free lenght based on it's sag. Rember the 100 pound rate is just an example. You would have to now the rate of the springs your dealing with. I also failed to mention if you have fully adjustable shock the rebound could be adjusted a few click to compasate.

I think I would take some measurements and talk to works as wee if they need work done or if a srping change will do. Any way you go I would betthe transion point would need to be changed so the rate can go stiffer sooner for the new sag and a new locknut on the spanner.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
shoubadaba, posted the quote I used I just missed putting it in. I was hopinf he would explain a little more. sorry for any confusing.

"H" Yea there should be some kid of retainer on the spanner nut. They do make some cool new ones that are a single however you would know them if you seen them. We usally use them in the rear of a quad were it a pain to adjust.

If you went to zero preload or the springs free lenght there is nothing more that can be done untill a rate change is made. If nothing is keeping the spanner from turning looser it will lead to issues or broken parts. The first would be scratching the shaft. I was hoping that tension comment and preload adjustment would be expanded upon since if there is preload there is tension and it does effect a few things like the first inch or so depending on setting of compression once it is unloaded or sags. The suspenion as it goes into bump from ride height the rate does not change if a single rate and if it transitions from a muti rate. However the amount of shaft travle under preload does. If you look at a simple 100 pound rate and the preload is at 50 lbs and the sag is 1" than it will take 150 lbs of force to compress the first 1" of the shock from its full expanded position. If we take it a few steps futher you can see how this will change a few things like you full compression poundage or when you go from sag to full bump, leaving out valving pressure etc. Lets say that above example had 5" of shaft and the sag was 1 or 150 lbs then you had 400 lbs remaing before the shock bottom out if it goes from sag to full bump 4x100=400. now lets say the shock unloads first then you have 400+150=550. Now lets remove the preload and we say by doing this we increas the sag another inch which leaves us with 3" of shaft at sag. Yes the front end is lower however it will bottom eaisier and this is how. From sag to full bump at the 100 lbs rate you bottom poundage is now 3x100=300 and futher more if the shock goes to full extension first than the bottom poundage is 5x100=500 lbs. since thee is no preload the force per inch would equall the rate. Now we can see why dual triple orquad rate are our friends. If we reduce preload we can change the transition t the heavier rate quicker to maintain or bottom poundage. if we had adjusteres or high speed circuits some of the new lower bottom poundage can helps though the valving. keep in mind increased valving increasesthe shocks heat load.

Back to the example compare the two sag poundage numbers and you will see the results of you adjustment and there effects You just removed 50lbs of force which will have an effect on rebound and as we know rebound valving is usally around 4 times greater than compression. Now the shock will rebound slower through its last two inches of its free lenght based on it's sag. Rember the 100 pound rate is just an example. You would have to now the rate of the springs your dealing with. I also failed to mention if you have fully adjustable shock the rebound could be adjusted a few click to compasate.

I think I would take some measurements and talk to works as wee if they need work done or if a srping change will do. Any way you go I would betthe transion point would need to be changed so the rate can go stiffer sooner for the new sag and a new locknut on the spanner.



My wifes Pilot has WORKS on the front I will have to look at the springs on it and see if they are the same length as the springs on Tim's 350 kit then see if they are weaker springs maybe we can swap springs, the Pilot will be sold to Mikey he will need stiffer springs anyways wouldn't it be nice if they interchange and can please both guys :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Any updates Timmy ?
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/pla ... &fr=fp-top


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1228
Location: Chicago
LOL

No updates.. just riding and inspecting the piss out of it. I think the springs up front are too stiff as you said previously.. any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Tpreed wrote:
LOL

No updates.. just riding and inspecting the piss out of it. I think the springs up front are too stiff as you said previously.. any suggestions?


Buy new springs?

Whats next on the 350 list?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1228
Location: Chicago
hoser wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
LOL

No updates.. just riding and inspecting the piss out of it. I think the springs up front are too stiff as you said previously.. any suggestions?


Buy new springs?

Whats next on the 350 list?


I probably wont be making any new purchases for a while as school starts on monday. I graduate in december though.. After graduation and job hunting, I plan on maybe converting to a watercooled head/jug setup.. after that there isn't much left that can be done to the oddy.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Aurora, IL
Tpreed wrote:
hoser wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
LOL

No updates.. just riding and inspecting the piss out of it. I think the springs up front are too stiff as you said previously.. any suggestions?


Buy new springs?

Whats next on the 350 list?


I probably wont be making any new purchases for a while as school starts on monday. I graduate in december though.. After graduation and job hunting, I plan on maybe converting to a watercooled head/jug setup.. after that there isn't much left that can be done to the oddy.


Don't forget about the Pilot mod. ;-)


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