Hello all Im starting on a conversion for triple p. Ill be using his LT pilot and a 2008 YAMAHA PHAZER snowmobile. I have had his pilot for a few months in my garage waiting for reassembly but due to a new job opening up for him in Idaho he hasnthad much time to come down and wrench on it. I spoke to him about doing a conversion on my briggs car and he wanted the same. Well he search craigslist and found a great deal on a pair of them. I will be installing the 500cc four stroke Engine in the car. Finding room for the oil tank and cooler fuel cell and a air box is going to be a challenge but I cant wait to tackle the challenge. It s gonna be tight but 80hp fourstroke rocket is worth it. Can you say wheelie on command :)

Those things sure are ugly in stock form. I will enjoy watching you chop them up. Lol

Looks like fun!!!

Any hints on plan?

Keeping stock trans? If so what about input shaft? I know Bazz is looking for one, I might be interested ect. Maybe a group run?

Ak

yup

If you use the stock driven, what will you do about the belt width? i know with mine i need to figure somthing out to use a wider belt. She runs at way to high of RPM with the skinny belt. Would love to get an input shaft made to run a standard sled driven clutch. I would be happy to help with a group run of those if possible.

Shim the driven out to the 1 1/2 size belt

yup

I can see how the you can shim it out 1/2". By doing that only would the gearing be lower at final drive run out in the driven since the belt can not ride as low in the driven once the cam rollers bottom out ?

My briggs runs a stock fl350 and it is shimmed and shifts out the same as stock. The only way you change the final ratio is if the hilux angle is changed or the faces of the driven are changed with a different angle. Clutch tuning for the briggs will be easier because Ill be able to tune the driven and the drive clutch. On the pilot only the drive clutch can be tuned.

shoubadaba,

The helix angle and sheeve angle aid in shift out rate, and not final gear ratio what Adnoh is refering to. By spacing the secondary out your hampering low gear (probably don't need to worry as the Yami has more hp and torque) but at the same time you'll be limiting the top speed as the secondary bottoms out and the belt is not in top gear on primary. Of course this is if both clutches have the same amount of movement in each. If one has more than the other then the smaller dictates starting and finishing gear ratio in the CVT.

You may not have to do anything as the Yamaha's run narrower belts on their sleds than the other manufacturers. On the Nytro I needed to machine a larger stop collar so the screw on sheeve was spaced farther away to match the Team secondary clutch belt width. I'm sure the Phazer's are pretty close to the same clutch. I would have to measure the Yami belts to see what they are and post them up. The Yamaha's clutches are great but I don't like them for the dirt. They have webing between the button towers and this traps dust, then the slides are grinding away. I have a Polaris clutch ordered with a Nytro taper to solve this. Thought of drilling holes in the webing, wanted to cut out completely but worry about balance.

We're probably ahead of ourselves as you need to get your hands on the sleds first, but trying to help.

Ak

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i cant wait to see how this project works

Shoub,

Unfortunatly I'm 4000 miles away or I'd be getting my hands dirty.... If there is anything I can do just ask. Sometimes I have a one track mind tho, and have to remeind myself there is more than one way to skin a Cat. So keep that in mind when I suggest, or shead light on how I went about doing it.

Ak

You can not just shim one side of the 790 driven and expect it to work correctly. I run the wider belt with my 700 in my briggs car. To make it all work, calculate the difference between the two belts. For easy math we will say .250 is the difference. remove the helix, back cut the inside of the back side (side with the snap ring) .250". Then make a spacer ring that is .250" Slide the spacer ring between the two pullies. Make the spacer so it is a tigh press fit (you don't want it rattling around) Reassemble the clutch. You will now see the helix slippers are in the original position, you will now have full travel of the helix, full range of the clutch. IMO the 500 will be fine with the stock width belt. It is typically easier to mod the drive clutch to fit the belt vs machining the driven.

is the Engine bay in an pilot the same size an an fl350? or is the pilots bigger?

The pilots is much bigger on width.

Thought moskito already did this Engine conversion in a Briggs car. how did that work out? The math makes it seem like a bad move performance wise to me, the current Engine is putting out a power stroke (about 80hp) every 360 of the crank the 4 stroke Engine is 80 HP but how many power strokes per each turn of the crank, is it putting out its 80 HP for 2 cylinders not one so its 40 HP every turn of the crank or two 40hp hits every 360 of the crank?

How many RPMS will the 4 stroke turn, anybody know what the effective power band is?

HP numbers are meaningless for the most part its all in the delivery of the power pulses.

How much weigh will you gain with the swap, or lose don't know anything about the total weight of one of the Engine packages your using.

You going to make the swap a bolt in deal so you can swap back to the original Engine if you wanted?

How much will you have to change the fuel delivery to work in the new environment?

I do believe there's some race video out there where the Yamaha Engine machines put some whoop up on some pilots.

Cant wait to see, hopefully it revs faster than a Rhino lol, wonder if their is a gear reduction between the crank and the drive clutch?

it almost looks like it does from waht i see freom photos of the Engine cases

im pretty sure it has a reduction in the Engine

"The Yamaha Phazer twin peak power arrives at the 12,000-rpm range, meaning it must use a gear reduction to get clutch speeds down to 8000 rev survivability range. "

Don't forget that the briggs car is lighter and better suspension.
Good belts will hold 14,000rpm. The 350's in the briggs car turned 13,500rpm 20 yrs ago.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IHg-v7y ... e=youtu.be
Heres a video with the 2 briggs car running the Phazer engines against a revolt and 2 built pilots.

I personally think it will be a great Engine. I love my 2 strokes, but you cant beat the reliability of the 4 stroke engines.

One thing with using the stock mounts, are you planning on using the factory rubber bushings, or an aftermarket? I wish when i designed my mount, i would have gone with an aftermarket bushing. Be easier to find a replacement for a decent price if one ever wears out.