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 Post subject: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
So over the winter I purchase a Buggy Built by Who don't know .I do know it was worked on by two people at least. Whoever built the main chassis and rear suspension knew what they were doing judging by the quality of the workmenship. The front end is a much well its a nightmare. I've repaired the front end and am now looking for a supplier for new shocks for it. Any suggestions on places to buy.I would like to find some Fox airs or equivelent. I'm picking it up from sand blasters tonight so I can go over all the welds to make sure I did not miss any crappy ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
cobra rep wrote:
So over the winter I purchase a Buggy Built by Who don't know .I do know it was worked on by two people at least. Whoever built the main chassis and rear suspension knew what they were doing judging by the quality of the workmenship. The front end is a much well its a nightmare. I've repaired the front end and am now looking for a supplier for new shocks for it. Any suggestions on places to buy.I would like to find some Fox airs or equivelent. I'm picking it up from sand blasters tonight so I can go over all the welds to make sure I did not miss any crappy ones.



Which buggy platform is this? Pics?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:41 pm
Posts: 130
hey you might want to check out this place for shocks there cheap atleast mine are http://offroadwarehouse.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I know the guy that built that car he lives in Ottawa, Fatcat knows him also.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11284


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
The guy who originally built that car has forgot more than you and I will ever know about building stuff. Seen some neat creations in his garage. Not sure if it was modified after don built it but if it wasn't I would've left it alone. If your unhappy with it I'd consider trading you my FL350 for it if I can fit in it.


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File comment: Since this pic I've added a straight stock bumper, mint stock seat, 3" harness, and I'm mid pilot wheel swap. Fully liquid cooled, digatron, about everything you could think of besides suspension mods.
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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1228
Location: Chicago
Bill, I want some test drive feedback!

In what way is the front end poor? Workmanship or geometry?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
Tpreed wrote:
Bill, I want some test drive feedback!

In what way is the front end poor? Workmanship or geometry?

A little of both all the new tubing is to replace what was cut out by someone. Like I said who ever built it did not do the repair work on it .Someone replaced the front end with one off a Suzuki quad runner. While it works its not the best. My guess it was wrecked and was repaired with what was handy.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:01 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: NW INDIANA
Bill when is the trailer queen gonna be ready for some ridin? Did you ever get any more info about ridin in wisc on the trails?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cobra rep wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
Bill, I want some test drive feedback!

In what way is the front end poor? Workmanship or geometry?

A little of both all the new tubing is to replace what was cut out by someone. Like I said who ever built it did not do the repair work on it .Someone replaced the front end with one off a Suzuki quad runner. While it works its not the best. My guess it was wrecked and was repaired with what was handy.



Looks like someone added more tubing and bracing, where did you get that pic who added the tubes?

I remember when this car was built it was a budget build to use up the rest of the materials he had for building them genesis cars then the jigs bender and the rest of the brackets was sold to LIEwire the 'buggy jig collector' he was going to start building these cars and selling same with the Drakart formula cross he bought the jigs and rights to build that car and sell lmao.

Being a budget build the car was built cheap and sold sold cheap the transmission in the car at the time cost over 2000.00 new.

At the time it was built if it was built to the exact genesis design and specs would have had to ask at least 10k for it and today it would be a 6500 car.

Going by memory the front suspension had 1" more travel than a stock Pilot forget the travel on the rear you will have to measure but pretty sure its more than a stock Pilot also.

Think that Engine makes 60-65 hp get the numbers off the tag and search the web to find out for sure.

don't be a rookie take it out run the shit out of it under all conditions before you start making changes based on looks or feelings unless your looking for a project, seen way too many guys turn working ATVs into projects and when they got done gained nothing they were lucky to keep up with the rest of the group :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
Randy J. wrote:
Bill when is the trailer queen gonna be ready for some ridin? Did you ever get any more info about ridin in wisc on the trails?

By the first of April. Frames back from sand basting should go out for powder coat on Tue or Wed. Then its just reassembly. No I have not Once I get a little closer to being running I'm going to drive up there and talk to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
hoser wrote:
cobra rep wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
Bill, I want some test drive feedback!

In what way is the front end poor? Workmanship or geometry?

A little of both all the new tubing is to replace what was cut out by someone. Like I said who ever built it did not do the repair work on it .Someone replaced the front end with one off a Suzuki quad runner. While it works its not the best. My guess it was wrecked and was repaired with what was handy.



Looks like someone added more tubing and bracing, where did you get that pic who added the tubes?

I remember when this car was built it was a budget build to use up the rest of the materials he had for building them genesis cars then the jigs bender and the rest of the brackets was sold to LIEwire the 'buggy jig collector' he was going to start building these cars and selling same with the Drakart formula cross he bought the jigs and rights to build that car and sell lmao.

Being a budget build the car was built cheap and sold sold cheap the transmission in the car at the time cost over 2000.00 new.

At the time it was built if it was built to the exact genesis design and specs would have had to ask at least 10k for it and today it would be a 6500 car.

Going by memory the front suspension had 1" more travel than a stock Pilot forget the travel on the rear you will have to measure but pretty sure its more than a stock Pilot also.

Think that Engine makes 60-65 hp get the numbers off the tag and search the web to find out for sure.

don't be a rookie take it out run the shit out of it under all conditions before you start making changes based on looks or feelings unless your looking for a project, seen way too many guys turn working ATVs into projects and when they got done gained nothing they were lucky to keep up with the rest of the group :-)

I added the tubes also pulled the frame back to straight. I built sprint cars in my youth and am well versed in Solid works auto cad.The bracing was needed because the frame was bending because of the loads being applied.Some of it replaced what was cut out some was to stiffen the chassis . All of this was imputed into solid works. Two people worked on this car.One was good one not so the first person welded with a tig most likely This Don guy.Then someone cut off the front suspension and installed the Quad runner.Who ever built the car did not install that. The welds are night and day different. The motors a type 462 467cc but at one time had a 440 rave motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) in it. While at one time it may have been built to specs someone changed it. Yes this is a project and most likely I'll build a new chassis next winter.Right now building adjustability into the front end should let me take out some of the oversteer it has now.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
Hoser what is the suspension travel on a pilot ?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cobra rep wrote:
hoser wrote:
cobra rep wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
Bill, I want some test drive feedback!

In what way is the front end poor? Workmanship or geometry?

A little of both all the new tubing is to replace what was cut out by someone. Like I said who ever built it did not do the repair work on it .Someone replaced the front end with one off a Suzuki quad runner. While it works its not the best. My guess it was wrecked and was repaired with what was handy.



Looks like someone added more tubing and bracing, where did you get that pic who added the tubes?

I remember when this car was built it was a budget build to use up the rest of the materials he had for building them genesis cars then the jigs bender and the rest of the brackets was sold to LIEwire the 'buggy jig collector' he was going to start building these cars and selling same with the Drakart formula cross he bought the jigs and rights to build that car and sell lmao.

Being a budget build the car was built cheap and sold sold cheap the transmission in the car at the time cost over 2000.00 new.

At the time it was built if it was built to the exact genesis design and specs would have had to ask at least 10k for it and today it would be a 6500 car.

Going by memory the front suspension had 1" more travel than a stock Pilot forget the travel on the rear you will have to measure but pretty sure its more than a stock Pilot also.

Think that Engine makes 60-65 hp get the numbers off the tag and search the web to find out for sure.

don't be a rookie take it out run the shit out of it under all conditions before you start making changes based on looks or feelings unless your looking for a project, seen way too many guys turn working ATVs into projects and when they got done gained nothing they were lucky to keep up with the rest of the group :-)

I added the tubes also pulled the frame back to straight. I built sprint cars in my youth and am well versed in Solid works auto cad.The bracing was needed because the frame was bending because of the loads being applied.Some of it replaced what was cut out some was to stiffen the chassis . All of this was imputed into solid works. Two people worked on this car.One was good one not so the first person welded with a tig most likely This Don guy.Then someone cut off the front suspension and installed the Quad runner.Who ever built the car did not install that. The welds are night and day different. The motors a type 462 467cc but at one time had a 440 rave motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) ((Internal Combustion Engine?)) in it. While at one time it may have been built to specs someone changed it. Yes this is a project and most likely I'll build a new chassis next winter.Right now building adjustability into the front end should let me take out some of the oversteer it has now.


You have any details what was cut out, sounds like someone made changes since Don for sure.

Careful what you wish for with the cad the guy that designed and built the Genesis cars did the same thing his first build ended up being over 1200 lbs, the size Engine limit was 440cc racing in a class where everybody was 700 lbs or less, he build a total of 12 cars think the last one was down to 850 lbs, everybody else was still 700lbs or less, two of my friends were running modified Pilots at 625 lbs. The Genesis guy built off road racers for a living just nothing small and lite like these cars are suppose to be, turn off the computer look at a Honda Pilot or FL350 Odyssey they were made safe and lite (600 lbs) no need to reinvent the wheel and make it weigh too much :-) Honda has done 99% of the thinking for you and its proven/tested designs.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cobra rep wrote:
Hoser what is the suspension travel on a pilot ?



Front Suspension Double Travel wishbone 150 mm (5.9 in) at axle
Rear Suspension Travel Double wishbone 180 mm (7.1in) at axle


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
The rear suspension looks good but the front needs way more travel. Looks like an odyssey right now


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
shoubadaba wrote:
The rear suspension looks good but the front needs way more travel. Looks like an odyssey right now



Measure it see whats actual :-) looks like means nothing :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
A little over 8 inches on the front and 11 3/4 on the rear. The biggest problem is the caster and camber only 2 degrees on caster and 1 degree positive on camber. I would like to see more like 5 or 6 positive in caster and 2 or 3 negative in camber.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
As I'm not going to race it I'll except the weight penality for piece of mind and subtitute a bigger motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )). Already found a 521 or a 800 that I can fit in this toy.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cobra rep wrote:
A little over 8 inches on the front and 11 3/4 on the rear. The biggest problem is the caster and camber only 2 degrees on caster and 1 degree positive on camber. I would like to see more like 5 or 6 positive in caster and 2 or 3 negative in camber.



But how does it drive?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
hoser wrote:
cobra rep wrote:
A little over 8 inches on the front and 11 3/4 on the rear. The biggest problem is the caster and camber only 2 degrees on caster and 1 degree positive on camber. I would like to see more like 5 or 6 positive in caster and 2 or 3 negative in camber.



But how does it drive?

Wanders when going straight and the over steer well it wont turn at all on pavement.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
Project is complete pics of its first time out.Still sorting out suspension but it turns now. It hooks up and I can go pretty much any where I want.Never even came close to getting stuck and the woods were pretty mucky.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
Need to make longer front arms and add longer shocks to get more travel out of it. Looks like the front is super short travel. With doing longer arms you can use a better offset wheel to allow you to turn better as well. Right now with your wheel offset like it is your swinging the tire instead of turning it. With going with a 6 inch longer arms in the front you can use closer to a stock atv front wheel which is a 4-1 offset looks like you have a 2-3. 2 on the inside. So ultimately you will be 8 inches wider overall but more travel and better steering. Your front end will be close to the same width as the rear.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
You did a nice job, looks great!. Those are pretty deep offset fronts like Rusty said, you might feel that in the steering if you hit a rut. Great thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
looks good, what Engine did you end up using?


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuilding a Wreck
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 am
Posts: 21
Kuma wrote:
looks good, what Engine did you end up using?

Its a 462 right now but I'm building a 583 for this one right now. I have a 670 for the new one I'm going to build this comming winter.


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