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 Post subject: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
I guess its about time I start on oddy #2.
I was wondering what the ratio would be used if and when I put my buell blast Engine in.
I know DaveM did a conversion. wondering how he did his math? I am going to use a jack shaft since the primary on the Engine
is on the right side and I need to be on the left. I was thinking of still using the a drive and driven clutch. any thoughts on that.
It seems like the big buggies drakarts are using cvt clutches. I don't know was just kicking around a few Ideas around. We had
some nice weather for august here in okie vill so I about have the frame all sandblasted down. Then I will sandblast and
paint the smaller parts including the a arm conversion. going to try and do the mock up of everything before I paint.

So DaveM if you see this post I guess you can field this one since you have done this
successfully. Welp have a long week time to get to sleep.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
dbloudharleys wrote:
I guess its about time I start on oddy #2.
I was wondering what the ratio would be used if and when I put my buell blast Engine in.
I know DaveM did a conversion. wondering how he did his math? I am going to use a jack shaft since the primary on the Engine
is on the right side and I need to be on the left. I was thinking of still using the a drive and driven clutch. any thoughts on that.
It seems like the big buggies drakarts are using cvt clutches. I don't know was just kicking around a few Ideas around. We had
some nice weather for august here in okie vill so I about have the frame all sandblasted down. Then I will sandblast and
paint the smaller parts including the a arm conversion. going to try and do the mock up of everything before I paint.

So DaveM if you see this post I guess you can field this one since you have done this
successfully. Welp have a long week time to get to sleep.

A buel blast is an 1cylinder sportster Engine right?
I'm guessing you want to keep reverse since you are talking about an jack shaft

Other wise fully is doing an bearing carrier with an trx450R.

If I remember right DaveM said the thing eats threw chains pretty fast
Longer a chain is the better cooling shorter one has an short life


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
If your gonna use the odyssey tranny then you use the same size gear on the tranny as the Engine so 1 to 1


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
shoubadaba wrote:
If your gonna use the odyssey tranny then you use the same size gear on the tranny as the Engine so 1 to 1

It's still too low
DaveM had problems with top speed with his

I was looking into it last year when I was going to put the cbr in my spare frame that's not my 537


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
Here's my math. I set a goal of 60mph for ease of calculation.

KLX650 Engine, 6500rpm , 2.2:1 primary reduction, .79:1 5th gear = 3740 front sprocket rpm.
I need ~8000rpm at the tranny input shaft for 60mph. 25" tire, 801rev per mile, 10:1 tranny
So I need 2.13X increase from front sprocket to tranny input.
16t front sprocket to 13t on jackshaft is 1:1.2 which = 4488rpm
27t on jackshaft to 15t on tranny. 1:1.8 gets to 8078rpm


I have since changed to 28 sprocket for a little more load which the Engine likes in the mid range, and a touch more top end.

So you need to know your engines upper rpm range, primary reduction ratio, and high gear ratio. And your tire diameter.

I can get 3 chains out of a 120 link 520 chain. I've gone through 3, 120 link chains in 1600 miles. So that is 9 chains. Not ideal, but not horribly bad. It's the price of havin' fun. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
B S wrote:
dbloudharleys wrote:
I guess its about time I start on oddy #2.
I was wondering what the ratio would be used if and when I put my buell blast Engine in.
I know DaveM did a conversion. wondering how he did his math? I am going to use a jack shaft since the primary on the Engine
is on the right side and I need to be on the left. I was thinking of still using the a drive and driven clutch. any thoughts on that.
It seems like the big buggies drakarts are using cvt clutches. I don't know was just kicking around a few Ideas around. We had
some nice weather for august here in okie vill so I about have the frame all sandblasted down. Then I will sandblast and
paint the smaller parts including the a arm conversion. going to try and do the mock up of everything before I paint.

So DaveM if you see this post I guess you can field this one since you have done this
successfully. Welp have a long week time to get to sleep.

A buel blast is an 1cylinder sportster Engine right?
I'm guessing you want to keep reverse since you are talking about an jack shaft

Other wise fully is doing an bearing carrier with an trx450R.

If I remember right DaveM said the thing eats threw chains pretty fast
Longer a chain is the better cooling shorter one has an short life

That is right single cylinder with gobbs of torque, also has a little more hp than the stock 350 2 stroke.
Thanks for the math lesson DaveM. :-)
But instead of chain could I still use the cvt with a belt , maybe over complicating things here but that is my thoughts. Yes I want to
Keep reverse, wouldent be much fun to get out and push backwards. Would like to do a sled conversion but just do not see them here
in okla. I like farr's stuff but just cant seem to justify the price.lol


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
I think I ask this before but don't the Drakarts have to be shifted also and they run a drive and driven cvt also ? it is a question
I do not know just asking. I did get the frame the conversion is going into all sandblasted today what a pain in the arse.
Next is to mock up the front end for conversion. And finish sandblasting a few other Items.
Another question is Has someone painted one of these frames from bare metal if so how did you get coverage
on everything. I am thinking about building a rack that rotates kinda like a car frame cradle that you can spin 360 so I can get even coats all the way around. I think I have enough scrap Iron to put one together. Or do you just hang the frame and do it that way?


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
DaveM wrote:
Here's my math. I set a goal of 60mph for ease of calculation.

KLX650 Engine, 6500rpm , 2.2:1 primary reduction, .79:1 5th gear = 3740 front sprocket rpm.
I need ~8000rpm at the tranny input shaft for 60mph. 25" tire, 801rev per mile, 10:1 tranny
So I need 2.13X increase from front sprocket to tranny input.
16t front sprocket to 13t on jackshaft is 1:1.2 which = 4488rpm
27t on jackshaft to 15t on tranny. 1:1.8 gets to 8078rpm


I have since changed to 28 sprocket for a little more load which the Engine likes in the mid range, and a touch more top end.

So you need to know your engines upper rpm range, primary reduction ratio, and high gear ratio. And your tire diameter.

I can get 3 chains out of a 120 link 520 chain. I've gone through 3, 120 link chains in 1600 miles. So that is 9 chains. Not ideal, but not horribly bad. It's the price of havin' fun. :-)

and what type of chains are they?
standard chain or oring ?


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
So far I have used 2 DID o-ring chains and a twice the price EK x-ring chain that didn't last any longer than the o-ring chains.
Next time I'm going to try a standard chain as the o-ring rubber gets hard from the heat after a few rides anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
so davem did you just get most of your sprockets from tractor supply and what bearings did you use for the jack shaft?


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
For the jackshaft sprockets, yes, I used #50 sprockets and weld hubs from TSC and machined the thickness down to fit the 520 chain. The weld hub is machined to take 2 sprockets. A 7/8" weld hub fit the trans input shaft. The sprocket on the trans is a hardened bike sprocket.
I have a good SKF bearing on the sprocket side. The carriers and other side are cheapies from TSC. 1" shaft.
Image
Image

The big challenge was coming up with a way to adjust the chain tension, X2.
My jackshaft slides up and down on plates attached to the Engine, and has an adjustment screw to set tension on the front chain.
And the Engine pivots at the lower mount to set the rear chain tension.

(mock-up pic, all I could find quick)

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
That's cool davem. How about the shift cables did you have em made up at the bike shop? clutch/ shift.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
would a street bikes chain be stronger and last longer?


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
The shifter cable and the FNR cable are Morse style push pull cables from the local parts house. Available in 6" increment lengths.
Image Image

The clutch cable I made from automotive parking brake cable. Custom ends crimped and or silver soldered.

Image
Image


The 520 x-ring chain I tried was rated for 1000cc street bike. Didn't last any longer than an o-ring motocross chain rated for 500cc. It's the heat due to the short chain that is doing them in.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
Ok tell me if I am missing something. From everything I am seeing everyone likes the busa engines for their buggy conversions
connected to a rpm gearbox. Does the rpm gearbox have clutches in it like the pilot gearbox. Think I am going to sell the buell to the po
he wants it back since I have it running now.lol I told him it was the lay over safety switch. So now the next question is I know protodie
makes a few things I like. Like the a arm rear end with built in mounts for the gsxr Engine and rpm gearbox. Then I could do the a arms for the front and have a killer buggy but also have a small fortune in it .
So that got me thinking what if I just pulled the axels off the trannie fl350 made blanks for
the 930 shafts to bolt up to I don't think the tranny would hold up. but then I could use the much better fox 2.0. What do you guys think.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
the 930 cups wont clear the fl350 case on the right side.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The smaller the diameter the sprockets the shorter the chain life will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 708
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is it a better option to replace the stock transmission with a single short shaft that holds the disc brake and sprocket like a trike or quad does and have the FL350 axles slide onto the short shaft?

Am I making sense?


Like this......
http://www.atvriders.com/images/suzuki/ ... r-axle.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
mozzy wrote:
Is it a better option to replace the stock transmission with a single short shaft that holds the disc brake and sprocket like a trike or quad does and have the FL350 axles slide onto the short shaft?

Am I making sense?


Like this......
http://www.atvriders.com/images/suzuki/ ... r-axle.jpg" ."..

Then you got no reverse
That's why they want to keep the trans


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 Post subject: Re: Four stroke ratio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
Find a 660 or 700 Raptor Engine that has the reverse built in.
Or a TRX700 that has reverse and the chain inboard.


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