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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:01 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
EDIT:

After some thought i have orded the complete kit from Farr Offroad. It just seems too easy.


I am planning to ride this summer on the 400 but after that the swap begins. I have been reading up on most of the swaps around here and decided on the 583 over the 670. So far i have located a sled and plan to pick it up on Sunday. I am researching the carb set up and may go with a single 44mm and aftermarket intake over a dual 38m set up. the ease in tuning should be worth the small (if any) performance drop. Here is a spread sheet that i am working on to help my planning. Please give any advice or imput that would feel with help.

Image

edit:: updated spread sheet 6/10/14

Image

I may even look for another pilot to make the converison on but right now i am planning to complete it on this one.

Image

I am well off in the fact that i have a JD squared model 3 tubing bender, Miller MIG and TIG set ups, 4' box and pan brake, as well as many other fab tools.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
No luck finding a complete sled for less than 1200? How many miles on the sled?

Have you researched the sled you want to buy to see what the remaining parts you will not use are worth don't forget to include that in your spread sheet, hopefully you can recover 300-500 bux on the left over sled parts..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:01 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
600 miles on the Engine rebuild with receipts. I have gone through the complteted ebay auctions and think i will get that much back. the killer may be on shipping the larger parts since not many locals around here will be needing the parts.

I plan to sell most parts on ebay, as you can see here i am used to selling on ebay.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... 2531.l4585


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
The kit Emannuel sells is very complete and comes with a completely rebuilt Engine and you use the stock pilot wiring with just an added kill switch.the conversion can be donein a weekend. Only other parts needed is a larger radiator and fuel tank. Rememberif you buy a sled you will still need to buy a different intaake system the theoriginal carb setup wont fit with the tranny. And the clutch from the sled will need machining to work with a belt that fits the driven clutch.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:01 pm
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Location: Monette Ar
shoubadaba wrote:
And the clutch from the sled will need machining to work with a belt that fits the driven clutch.



with the pilot belt issues can you machine the driven clutch to accept the sled belt?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Location: Upland, Ca
No nothi ng can be done to the driven to run a thicker sled belt. But thereis a belt that is 1/16th thicker then the stock pilot belt that works well nitrosport5 is running it and so is steve with good results. The farr kit is gonna be cheaper for you since it comes with the starter and pipe the is a perfect fit for the pilot and the intake and carbs. The jetting is spot on stock for the 583 for the carbs he sends.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Location: Monette Ar
shoubadaba wrote:
No nothi ng can be done to the driven to run a thicker sled belt. But thereis a belt that is 1/16th thicker then the stock pilot belt that works well nitrosport5 is running it and so is steve with good results. The farr kit is gonna be cheaper for you since it comes with the starter and pipe the is a perfect fit for the pilot and the intake and carbs. The jetting is spot on stock for the 583 for the carbs he sends.



well you have me thinking about it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Location: Monette Ar
shoubadaba wrote:
No nothi ng can be done to the driven to run a thicker sled belt. But thereis a belt that is 1/16th thicker then the stock pilot belt that works well nitrosport5 is running it and so is steve with good results. The farr kit is gonna be cheaper for you since it comes with the starter and pipe the is a perfect fit for the pilot and the intake and carbs. The jetting is spot on stock for the 583 for the carbs he sends.



i have yet to see pics of a completed FARR kit in a pilot. why is that?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2147
Location: St. John, Washington
ChrisV wrote:
shoubadaba wrote:
No nothi ng can be done to the driven to run a thicker sled belt. But thereis a belt that is 1/16th thicker then the stock pilot belt that works well nitrosport5 is running it and so is steve with good results. The farr kit is gonna be cheaper for you since it comes with the starter and pipe the is a perfect fit for the pilot and the intake and carbs. The jetting is spot on stock for the 583 for the carbs he sends.



i have yet to see pics of a completed FARR kit in a pilot. why is that?


I'm running his Engine mount, halorising is running his complete kit I believe. along with steve. its a great kit. especially if you don't have sleds nearby or the ability to build your own pipe/rebuild an Engine. kit is damn near bolt in.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Location: Monette Ar
nitrosport_5 wrote:

I'm running his Engine mount, halorising is running his complete kit I believe. along with steve. its a great kit. especially if you don't have sleds nearby or the ability to build your own pipe/rebuild an Engine. kit is damn near bolt in.



i can build my own pipe (from the sled pipe) and Engine rebuilds are not really a concern. the biggest concern that i have is the clutch machining. I have no idea what is needed there.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:01 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
shoubadaba wrote:
The kit Emannuel sells is very complete and comes with a completely rebuilt Engine and you use the stock pilot wiring with just an added kill switch.the conversion can be donein a weekend. Only other parts needed is a larger radiator and fuel tank. Rememberif you buy a sled you will still need to buy a different intaake system the theoriginal carb setup wont fit with the tranny. And the clutch from the sled will need machining to work with a belt that fits the driven clutch.



i have sent him a text and email. We will see what he has to offer right now. If im buying the whole kit is there any reason not to go 670? if you are going to be a bear you may as well be a grizzly bear!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Unless you want/need electric start right away, you can save a couple $'s and try to collect parts yourself for e-start over time.

Starter. Here's the one Farr uses, $65 shipped is the best price out there for a NEW starter. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130593809129?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Polaris ATV Solenoid, $20, and is the cheapest you'll find one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171102366239?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Sea/Ski Doo starter mount. Quite a few of these around for $10-$12. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Sea-Doo-Starter-Bracket-420853390-BRAND-NEW-/111004974096?pt=Personal_Watercraft_Parts&hash=item19d8697c10&vxp=mtr

TRA clutch ring gear...this is usually the tough cookie to find, plus you have to drill/tap the mount holes on your clutch's backside. More likely to find a whole clutch with the gear. And they seem to fetch a decent price. If you can't find a ring gear and/or can't drill/tap and/or don't want to hassle with it all, then Farr's e-start option is WELL WORTH its $300 price. One-stop shop and you know it all works together.


As for a radiator, there are plenty of used ATV radiators with fans for around the $40-$70 mark for sale online.


I love doing things right but on the side of a dime. They certainly don't call me "D$" because I spend a lot! lol


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
DMoneyAllstar wrote:


I love doing things right but on the side of a dime. They certainly don't call me "D$" because I spend a lot! lol



i have all the taps, drills, and heli coils in the word in my shop.

i gotta have electric start though. I like the magic button that makes it go vroom


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Unless you want/need electric start right away, you can save a couple $'s and try to collect parts yourself for e-start over time.

Starter. Here's the one Farr uses, $65 shipped is the best price out there for a NEW starter. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130593809129?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Polaris ATV Solenoid, $20, and is the cheapest you'll find one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171102366239?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Sea/Ski Doo starter mount. Quite a few of these around for $10-$12. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Sea-Doo-Starter-Bracket-420853390-BRAND-NEW-/111004974096?pt=Personal_Watercraft_Parts&hash=item19d8697c10&vxp=mtr

TRA clutch ring gear...this is usually the tough cookie to find, plus you have to drill/tap the mount holes on your clutch's backside. More likely to find a whole clutch with the gear. And they seem to fetch a decent price. If you can't find a ring gear and/or can't drill/tap and/or don't want to hassle with it all, then Farr's e-start option is WELL WORTH its $300 price. One-stop shop and you know it all works together.


As for a radiator, there are plenty of used ATV radiators with fans for around the $40-$70 mark for sale online.


I love doing things right but on the side of a dime. They certainly don't call me "D$" because I spend a lot! lol


the starter mount wont work with most liquid cooled engines ( i have already tried it)

well there's a cheaper one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Relay-S ... a7&vxp=mtr

for the ring gear its best to buy a complete clutch with it already installed on it that's the rout i went
paid $80or $100 for mine i forget


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
B S wrote:
the starter mount wont work with most liquid cooled engines ( i have already tried it)


I thought that particular style of starter (without the piggyback solenoid) along with that style of bracket is what Farr offers in his kits?? Look at the picture...http://www.farr-offroad.com/rotaxconversionkits.htm And I know that starter I pointed out is what he uses, because at one time you could see the items another eBayer has bought on their feedback page, and I snooped, lol.

I have the OEM starter for my '91 type 467 l/c Engine, and it has the piggyback solenoid. I had to make my own bracket and had to trim the Farr Engine mount for the starter/solenoid to fit. And to make room for the plumbing regardless of which starter is used, you have to change the water pump cover from the one that points down to the one that shoots to the mag side. I'd like to switch to the separate starter & solenoid like he offers, though, because its a MAJOR BIOTCH to wire the starter solenoid when its UNDER THE Engine. lol! AAAAAND I believe I had to install the Engine/mount with the starter bolted on already. It was a pain.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:54 pm
Posts: 835
Location: corona
Farr will machine the stock sled clutch to fit the pilot belt. That comes with his kit. It works great. The farr kit is worth every penny.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Location: corona
Here you can see the farr set up


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Location: corona
I was talking with farr and he told that some engines the starter will need to be shimmed back a 1/8 " This is how mine was.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:01 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
halorising wrote:
I was talking with farr and he told that some engines the starter will need to be shimmed back a 1/8 " This is how mine was.



I have had no luck getting in touch with him, its only been one day though.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Location: corona
ChrisV wrote:
halorising wrote:
I was talking with farr and he told that some engines the starter will need to be shimmed back a 1/8 " This is how mine was.



I have had no luck getting in touch with him, its only been one day though.

call his cell phone and leave your number he will call you back.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Posts: 379
Location: Monette Ar
halorising wrote:
ChrisV wrote:
halorising wrote:
I was talking with farr and he told that some engines the starter will need to be shimmed back a 1/8 " This is how mine was.



I have had no luck getting in touch with him, its only been one day though.

call his cell phone and leave your number he will call you back.



I called the one on his site and it would not connect. do you have to dial some international number or anything?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:14 pm 
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he just emailed me!! LOL. as I said it was only a day.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
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Location: New Jersey
Ok, you guys got me! This thread has thrown my interest into a conversion project.
Now I have several questions about it and I have 100% no knowledge on sled engines and such, so please bear with me.
1-the 583 kit Farr sells for the Pilot-does that come with carbs, I don't see it listed as such. If no carbs are supplied, do you guys use 2 carbs or purchase a 2-1 intake for the Engine. Are they even made a 2-1 intake?
2-if they do make a 2-1 intake, what carb works best? Larger, smaller? Also air boxs? Pictures of your guys current set up would be sweet indeed, especially for the back yard guy. Is there room for a box style set up using this Engine?
3-fuel-I see that the stock OEM tank will not work, as pictured above an afternarket one is the way to go, does it work off gravity to supply the Engine?
4-cooling. What type radiator have/are you guys using currently? Pictures?
5-the alignment belt wise, I see in the thread a different belt is/has been found to utilize stock pilot trans clutch. Can you guys clarify the belt maker, size please? Any issues running the SUPPLIED CLUTCH TO stock trans?
6-wire harness. Farr supplies from reading above just a secondary kill switch that is added to the OEM harness, that's all? Everything OEM in the Pilot harness is utilized for the rotax Engine? No other modifications are needed?
I am sure I will have more question. It was funny I was looking back at files I had here way back from the darkside issues. There was several fellas which tried to sell a similair kit for conversions for a ton of cash-and it never took off. Seems to me this fella Farr is really helping the community out by making this kit almost(and I am making this statement purely from reading posts here)bolt in, really seems like the kit is a win win. Kudos to him.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Found this thread on "wheels" conversion done by halorising:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13586

Hey Halorising, what radiaitor is this in that thread please? I see Emanual replied back to questions regarding the electronics questions I listed above:

"WIth the 583 there are three wires to tie into the original harness.
Depending on the year the black kill switch wire will come out of the Engine or the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) all you have to do is tie this in to the live side of kill switch
The two yellow wires go to the voltage regulator, I used the honda voltage regulator in my swap, some guys prefer to use the sled voltage regulator and I give them upon request when I have them

If the pilot regulator isn't compatible with the 583 I will start including the voltage regulator in the kit"

So that issue seems to be answered already. Cool. Have any of you guys used the seld regulator with this conversion? Any issues, is it just better to keep the stock Honda regulator?
Again, thanks for the replies in advance fellas!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Location: corona
The kit comes with carbs and they have a pump built into them. You want to go with two carbs. Its a stock motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) so the jetting from the 570 seadoo is what you want.


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