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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
According to the numbers you posted, this axle is a left side for a 1980 to 1992 VW Jetta.

This axle was never meant to have that much angle put on it. Jetta axles run pretty much horizontal during operation.

Rand


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
mossubi wrote:
bugeye59 wrote:
Check your driven clutch slipper/button thingys. :-)
Looks like the reverse slipper has escaped and been mangled/eaten by the spring? :shock:
This will also bind up your spring prematurely...and no one likes being prem do dey? :-)
It will stop/hinder full driven shift,limit your upshift gear ratio,top speed and keep in high RPM's.
Mark your drive clutch sheaves with a sharpie pen,then go for a ning ning,and recheck how the wear marks look.
I can't see them reaching full shift with that slipper jammed in the driven spring?



Sorry not sure what you mentioning? The 'drive clutch sheaves'? where is that particularly? Right now, the car doesn't go anywhere cause the CV's are all sorts of jacked. But, when i get it running again with the proper set up, i'll try to do this.

So, any ideas on how to find the proper CV's for this car?!


The sheaves are the clutch pulley halves/faces.
The drive clutch is the front one the trans end is the driven clutch.
It's all about bring in the sheaves! :shock: You will be rejoicing when it's all sorted.Image
They even sing about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:30 am 
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Posts: 29
Randman wrote:
According to the numbers you posted, this axle is a left side for a 1980 to 1992 VW Jetta.

This axle was never meant to have that much angle put on it. Jetta axles run pretty much horizontal during operation.

Rand


Yes I agree, no VW was ever meant to have that extreme of an angle on their CV's. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem, but what do you guys usually do to fix this problem? The hunt continues to find something that will work!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
Randman wrote:
According to the numbers you posted, this axle is a left side for a 1980 to 1992 VW Jetta.

This axle was never meant to have that much angle put on it. Jetta axles run pretty much horizontal during operation.

Rand


Except for when your turning.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Agreed but they aren't put under that much stress when the wheel is turned that far.

Are these axles failing on the inside or the oustide or both?

Another thing..... I would look for another axle without the name of EMPI stamped on it. Once upon a time they were the shit..... now they are one of the worst if not the worst manufacturer out there. Genuine Chinese Garbage!

Rand


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Posts: 29
Randman wrote:
Agreed but they aren't put under that much stress when the wheel is turned that far.

Are these axles failing on the inside or the oustide or both?

Another thing..... I would look for another axle without the name of EMPI stamped on it. Once upon a time they were the shit..... now they are one of the worst if not the worst manufacturer out there. Genuine Chinese Garbage!

Rand


Both times they failed on the inside (connected to the tranny). Yeah i don't want Chinese shit, i want some sick durable / indestructible CV's that i wont have to worry about.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Is that rear swing arm attached to the frame in two places so the swing arm can only travel at a specific arc in an up and down axis only?

If that arm is traveling in an arc swinging in towards the rear of the buggy its going to put a side load on that CV joint. I might be wrong but CV's aren't designed to take an extreme side load.

Rand


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:16 am 
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Randman wrote:
Is that rear swing arm attached to the frame in two places so the swing arm can only travel at a specific arc in an up and down axis only?

If that arm is traveling in an arc swinging in towards the rear of the buggy its going to put a side load on that CV joint. I might be wrong but CV's aren't designed to take an extreme side load.

Rand


Yes if you look at the pics, the rear arm is only attached at those 2 places, but it is extremely strong and don't think that is the issue. I do think that the rear arms could be longer though so it doesn't put such a horizontal angle on the axles. Right now, the axles are pivoting forward instead of just directly across to the hub. One though my uncle had was to cut the arms and extend them so that angle goes away and the CV comes horizontally directly out of the tranny and into the wheels. Would be a little bit of work to cut and sleeve all three bars on each arm, but could work to help get rid of that angle. But then again, it was made like that for a reason no? Just feel like that's a little overkill.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:47 am
Posts: 29
My second run ever with the car. First time I was in Ocotillio and went over a bump and broke the passenger CV. This time, I down a hill and broke the driver side CV. Still looking for a trailer so i can get this thing over to the off road shop to get new CV's built.

Enjoy: https://vimeo.com/110337411 - break at the end!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:54 pm
Posts: 835
Location: corona
hey man did you pick up that pilot in sd


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
mossubi wrote:
Randman wrote:
Is that rear swing arm attached to the frame in two places so the swing arm can only travel at a specific arc in an up and down axis only?

If that arm is traveling in an arc swinging in towards the rear of the buggy its going to put a side load on that CV joint. I might be wrong but CV's aren't designed to take an extreme side load.

Rand


Yes if you look at the pics, the rear arm is only attached at those 2 places, but it is extremely strong and don't think that is the issue. I do think that the rear arms could be longer though so it doesn't put such a horizontal angle on the axles. Right now, the axles are pivoting forward instead of just directly across to the hub. One though my uncle had was to cut the arms and extend them so that angle goes away and the CV comes horizontally directly out of the tranny and into the wheels. Would be a little bit of work to cut and sleeve all three bars on each arm, but could work to help get rid of that angle. But then again, it was made like that for a reason no? Just feel like that's a little overkill.


Correct me if I am wrong but your dealing with a proven design that does not need you to re-engineer I don't recall EVER hearing about any of the Triple E cars ever having axle problems or needing arms modified or limit strap length changes etc.

"the axles are pivoting forward instead of just directly across to the hub."

What difference does that make, your not the only one to point out this on other buggies, the whole point of CV's is to RUN AT ANGLES you think the CV understands or cares if the angle is forward, backwards, up, down or any where in between, do they care if its a compound angle, up and down front to back?

What would and could be a issue is quality of materials, replacement materials not being in OEM spec, material quality and or designed identical to OEM, assembled or installed wrong.


Don't be offended I am just trying to figure out what the problem is this is not normal.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:26 pm 
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hoser wrote:
mossubi wrote:
Randman wrote:
Is that rear swing arm attached to the frame in two places so the swing arm can only travel at a specific arc in an up and down axis only?

If that arm is traveling in an arc swinging in towards the rear of the buggy its going to put a side load on that CV joint. I might be wrong but CV's aren't designed to take an extreme side load.

Rand


Yes if you look at the pics, the rear arm is only attached at those 2 places, but it is extremely strong and don't think that is the issue. I do think that the rear arms could be longer though so it doesn't put such a horizontal angle on the axles. Right now, the axles are pivoting forward instead of just directly across to the hub. One though my uncle had was to cut the arms and extend them so that angle goes away and the CV comes horizontally directly out of the tranny and into the wheels. Would be a little bit of work to cut and sleeve all three bars on each arm, but could work to help get rid of that angle. But then again, it was made like that for a reason no? Just feel like that's a little overkill.


Correct me if I am wrong but your dealing with a proven design that does not need you to re-engineer I don't recall EVER hearing about any of the Triple E cars ever having axle problems or needing arms modified or limit strap length changes etc.

"the axles are pivoting forward instead of just directly across to the hub."

What difference does that make, your not the only one to point out this on other buggies, the whole point of CV's is to RUN AT ANGLES you think the CV understands or cares if the angle is forward, backwards, up, down or any where in between, do they care if its a compound angle, up and down front to back?

What would and could be a issue is quality of materials, replacement materials not being in OEM spec, material quality and or designed identical to OEM, assembled or installed wrong.

Don't be offended I am just trying to figure out what the problem is this is not normal.


Yeah well aware that this isn't normal. And I believe we are all on the same page here when i say im trying to find the RIGHT solution. I would be more than happy to order the part given i knew what part it actually was. As you know, EEE isn't around anymore, and hunting down info on these cars is pretty difficult. Not sure what the originals on the car were, but if you have any ideas of a direction to point me in, that would be great! I know ive seen some pics from the car from 10 years back, i can take dimensions, compare them to the VW7002's i have now, etc. Any options at this point would be great, thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:45 pm
Posts: 441
Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Mossubi where is that second riding area with the dirt track at? I recognize Occotillo in your other video. I think you were near the shell reef rest area... it looked kinda like it anyway. Fun Fun.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
I would think you couldn't fart without hitting someone that knows something about CVs where you live!

Beg/borrow a trailer and get over to Dave-Co's place!

I'm with Hoser,shouldn't have to redesign anything.

Still havnt read where you took the shock off and cycled the trailing arm to find out if anything is binding.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:47 am
Posts: 29
bullnerd wrote:
I would think you couldn't fart without hitting someone that knows something about CVs where you live!

Beg/borrow a trailer and get over to Dave-Co's place!

I'm with Hoser,shouldn't have to redesign anything.

Still haven't read where you took the shock off and cycled the trailing arm to find out if anything is binding.


Yeah you are right there are off road shops everywhere. Don't want to mess with adjusting suspension or anything. But yes, looking to get her over to a shop here in the next few days. Work has been slammed so needed to finish up some projects to fund the hobbies :-) I took the shock off and moved the arm up and down and nothing binds. Its all in real good shape actually. The tranny seems strong, nothing broke there (just did an oil change too). Also fired up the car tonight and she kicks over in 2 seconds its great. and at 180PSI compression i think im in good shape once we figure out this CV situation!

I was planning on heading over to see Bob with Race Ready Products, but i'm def willing to meet up with a fellow member on the board!? I live in La Jolla and the cars living in my shop / garage at the moment. Will have a trailer by next week and will hauling it over to get some experts on the case! Going for reliability, and being my first CV build, I need to talk to an expert who can dial this in for me. There are also a few shops in Oceanside where my buddy takes his rail. Looking into that as well.

And that dirt track, is Amago Race Track. http://www.riderplanet-usa.com/atv/trai ... e_9cf6.htm - its shut down now, and some lady drives around in a Camery collecting $10 from everyone and she leaves us alone all day. Doesn't even get out of her car its great. You guys want to ride there!? There is an old go cart track caked in dirt now and makes for a really fun place to rip the bikes / cars. Neeeeeeed to go back!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:47 am
Posts: 29
Went down and talked to the guys over at Race Ready Products and its clear that the set up im currently with, is too weak. It has a Type 1 connection at the tranny, and then goes into a spline join that pivots, but doesn't extend. Since it has so much travel but with such a little wheel base, we need to get extendable CV's on each side of the axle. That would cause the angle to be less, but also articulation to double for longer travel. Right now, its not set up that way, and of course no one makes them that way. But, there is a guy in Washington that can modify the 2 mounting points to fit a bigger Type 2 CV. So, gotta take the axle apart, give him the coupler piece that bolts directly to the output shaft on the tranny, and give him the input shaft that goes to the wheel. He'll then cut & weld on the new brackets to handle type 2 CV's. We'll then measure that distance, and choose which type 2's to get. Not sure how long this will take, but im taking the CV's apart this week and getting them prepped to send over to the guy in WA. Then he'll send them back, i'll bring the car back to Race Ready Products and we'll match up the correct type 2 axles. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
Whaaa?

The place is called race ready and they cant weld a couple flanges? Run away!

I still think there is some info being left out of your details?

It sounds like you have one plunging and one non-plunging cv.

Did you notice if the clips where still on the old axles? I'm pretty sure a lot of the custom built guys ran them without the clips, or one clip, allowing the axles to slide in and out of the stars.

I would bet this is your problem.

Going all the way to WA when you live in the off road capital of the world makes no sense!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:55 pm 
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bullnerd wrote:
Whaaa?

The place is called race ready and they cant weld a couple flanges? Run away!

I still think there is some info being left out of your details?

It sounds like you have one plunging and one non-plunging cv.

Did you notice if the clips where still on the old axles? I'm pretty sure a lot of the custom built guys ran them without the clips, or one clip, allowing the axles to slide in and out of the stars.

I would bet this is your problem.

Going all the way to WA when you live in the off road capital of the world makes no sense!


Ha i don't KNOW someone said go talk to Bob at Race Ready Products, i talked to him, and he told me to send the parts to Washington. I am trying to understand how these CV's even work, first timer to the offroad car world.

Yes, i have one side of my axle that is a plunging CV and the other side is not (the wheel side). I feel like this is a good idea to get the car up and running, not sure if i need to send the parts to WA though haha. I do have a magazine with offroad shops here in SD so hopefully i can get a second opinion.

Any other ideas!? Im getting anxious with the season right around the corner and a car that's still crippled. I got money to burn, show me where to go!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:59 pm 
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My setup takes type 2 cv's. My inner (trans side) has the clip and there is no clip on the wheel side.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:13 am 
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If you don't listen to one of the most knowledgeable people on the subject(Bob or me) you are wasting your time. If he said send them to the guy in Washington they should already be on there way. Good luck


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:22 am 
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Dave-Co wrote:
If you don't listen to one of the most knowledgeable people on the subject(Bob or me) you are wasting your time. If he said send them to the guy in Washington they should already be on there way. Good luck


Thanks Dave-co, taking the axles apart, getting them cleaned up and then off they go!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:20 am 
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Location: near NJ rider
Lol! Sounds good.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:50 am 
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Was able to take the broken cv off tonight and break it down. I also had one of the original axles that was on the car when i bought it.

I uploaded a bunch of pics of the process on my little google photo album: https://plus.google.com/photos/11092787 ... 5290590929

The axles look like the exact same kind. Doesn’t seem to be any modifications to the one that was given to me. Looks just like the one i shattered (vw7002) that i got from Orileys.

I’m not sure how the original owner rode it like this, but i think its time for an upgrade. I would like to do the type 2 CV set up if there is enough room / clearance on both the outside hub and the inside tranny splines.

I have type 1 inner cups and they have a 94mm CV on it. The axle shafts are 17.5”.

I think I can fit a 100mm type 2 CV on the tranny side, but its really close to hitting the bottom of the frame, and the 94mm type 1 CV is already rubbing a little on the belt. That sucks, sort of a tight design.

The outer spline (hub side) is also really tight. It has those 3 trailing arms that all meet at the end and it looks like a really tight fit. I THINK that 100mm CV would fit, but its gonna be close. Maybe push it out a little with a spacer set up to clear the last arm? (see photos).

Just something to mention to the guy who is gonna weld new type 2 plates onto the existing setups.

I know this is later down the road, but how do you guys feel about getting the chromoly Type 2 CV joints? They have larger angles and would help the existing 20 degree droop angle i currently have. The suspension on it seems pretty dialed and not sure how much that angle is going to change, so want to make sure we get joints that aren’t going to bust again under extreme angle.

So, what sort of angle can i get from something like that? is it going to be a problem? Figured I can do the Chromoly CV, with the Empi Boot kit for $75 each. Need 4 of them so $300 total. Plus that cost of the axle shafts, and of course the machine work. Do I get chromoly shafts as well? Not sure what size to get yet though, not until i get the parts back and measure.

So, leave the trailing arms as they are set up right now? Or cut and sleeve them to extend the wheels back so it is a straight angle to the tranny cup? Seems like they EEE made those arms that way for a reason? But I have been told this is a version 2 out of what, 5?... so maybe they learned from their mistakes and changed everything. IDK.

Thoughts? Check out the photos, again link is: https://plus.google.com/photos/11092787 ... 5290590929


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:22 pm 
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All set! Talked to Bob over at Race Ready Products and were going with a double plunging Type-2 set up. Brought him the trailing arm, the spline shafts, and the tranny cups. The clearance is really tight but think we can make it work. Just need to add a little 3/8" plate in there to separate it out a little to make sure it clears the arms when its all assembled. He is sending the 2 splines and 2 cups to his buddy in Washington where he'll machine on some new adapting plates to accept T2's one each side. All we can do now is wait - will keep everyone posted. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:47 am
Posts: 29
Just wanted to update everyone. Just talked to Bob over at Race Ready Products. The parts are still not ready! Been 4 weeks now and said it would be at least another 2 before he had the parts in his hand. I feel like I'm being neglected at this point, just a bummer. Been to the desert now 4 weekends in a row and still no Triple EEE. Will update again when I have some actual news. Thanks friends.


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