Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Fri Mar 15, 2024 1:31 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
D-money, can you post the link where we talked about this here? I don't know where it is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9767


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
Thanks D', but there is another where we talked about the suspension also.

Dave ,there is a pic of one of the Aussie versions in that thread Dmoney posted. Aussie Hoon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7686
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
You can check out my post "The missing third link" if you are into making a shock saver unit.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13463

That one?


Added: Funny...this conversation was from exactly 1yr ago in January. Must be the cabin fever!! lol

I looked for my Sportsman knuckles, but I'm pretty sure they went to the scrapper when I moved. I got em cheeeeeeeap though. They were VERY light.

Still have the front VW knuckle, axle, and hub along with 3-4 correct-spline ATC hubs. But I believe we covered the fact it would be easier/lighter to just start with a piece of tubing for a bearing carrier and then tack on the brackets for links.

I've got no time, unfortunately. Finishing my shop room, fixing a couple peoples' crappy China-made Toro snowblowers, etc.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
That's the one, thanks D'.

Now its all in one thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Personally, I really like the newer Polaris Ranger/RZR 800 front or rear axle and carriers. The rear carriers/knuckles are the aluminum ones similar to what Bullnerd has sketched. Fronts are a little different with the tie rod mount & all. Are the front knuckles steel or Al? Looks like cast/steel, so its already a basic tube with bearing in it. Weld on the link tabs.

Friggin' axles is as cheap as $70 shipped NEW. Would need to simply figure out what you could machine off the inner CV. The axles have the male spline, whereas if you made an adapter on FL350 trans output shaft, you'd want to machine off as much as you could from the Polaris axle inner, flush/center weld to the adapter, and be done. Just that you'd have to build an axle every time you broke one.

Take a FL350 or ATX hub and machine a recess cup for the freshly machined Ranger inner to rest/center. Weld it on a lathe with one end in the chuck and one in a tail stock (to center, not to lathe-cut). Have your buddy turn the chuck super slow for you while you weld. Don't set the oil chip bed on fire! lol

New axles are $70 each. Carrier/knuckles are like $30 ea. $20/hub. CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAP!

Anyone know the length on the front or rear axles? Angular travel? Looking at what kind of front suspension they're putting on these things, there should be plenty of travel (waaaay more than stock FL350). The 2015 Polaris Ranger has 9.6" front and 9" rear travel. RZR "S" and "4" have 12" front & rear travel. Stock Oddy (spec) is 4.3" front and 5.9" rear. From what I can find, the max angle of the stock RZR "S" cv is 27-deg (so...on a 15" shaft, max travel is ~15"). The aftermarket "Gorilla" axles have 40-deg travel, but are also $400+ each. :shock:

Lonestar sells extended axles, but you can back out the extra to get the stock length...
Measurements:
MTS +4 Axle Lengths
Front Axles = 20.175"
Rear Axles = 17.77"

XTR +8 Axle Lengths
Front Axles = 23.875"
Rear Axles = 21.50"
09-10 "S" Model Rear = 21.35"
11 "S" Model Rear = 21.75"

XTR +6 Axle Lengths
Front Axles = 22.375"
Rear Axles = 19.18"
09-10 "S" Model Rear = 19.18"
11 "S" Model Rear = 19.5"

09-14 RZR / RZR S axles are 26-spline outer and 27 spline inner.

Later model RGR/RZR use front wheel bearings 44x72x33.1 size, and rears are 40x74x40. So you can't put a rear axle in a front carrier, or the opposite.

This has consumed my lunch hour! :shock:


Attachments:
File comment: Ranger 800 axles, front (rear is same style)
Slide3.JPG
Slide3.JPG [ 29.01 KiB | Viewed 862 times ]
File comment: Ranger 800 rear carrier/knuckle
Slide1.JPG
Slide1.JPG [ 49.98 KiB | Viewed 862 times ]
File comment: Ranger 800 front carrier/knuckle
Slide2.JPG
Slide2.JPG [ 29.71 KiB | Viewed 862 times ]
File comment: Inner CV guts
PICT0909.jpg
PICT0909.jpg [ 26.21 KiB | Viewed 860 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
So Dave is the proud owner of my FL350 ... get to work on it Dave, everyone is waiting, what are you waiting for :)

DMoney...I actually had ordered a few RZR axles and rear knuckle...for a pilot idea, but for all the same reasons

I bought it because

#1, I wanted to check the interior splines of the actual axle. I cannot remember which, but 1 RZR axleshaft had the same spline count as the pilot and good length

Wasn't a fit at all, so no luck there

#2 it seemed pretty easy to make a pilot SLA double a arm setup using a RZR axle and rear knuckle

#3 Very plentiful and cheap parts (not as plentiful and cheap as VW items though)

Now the great news is the axles got tossed when I had my scrap metal pile purged...F me

Where I got was this...A honda inner CV cup (can't remember which, but the male splines seemed to work inside the pilot trans) turned down, the RZR inner axle CV stub cut off and faced, locate and weld the RZR inner cup to the honda civic new flange and that's was my direction for A-Arms...shock would mount to A-Arms, not knuckles

But like always, I got distracted by silly things like family and work...so it went to the dead pile

Good luck to all


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
It seems like it would work, all in all.

Perfect? Prob not.

Better? Likely.

Is it ready for King of the Hammers or Baja??? lol Prob not. But it'd be fun if one us many folks on here would just slay this dragon and blaze the trail!! :-)

I can't afford a RZR or RGR, but I can afford to DIY a trick suspension for my FL350's. Thinking costs nothing (more of it can actually save a ton of $, too).


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1425
Location: Norco, CA
sorry to change the subject a little, but are there any axle CV assemblies that will plug into a Pilot trans? I wouldn't really care about the outer as that could be fully reworked to use the mating carrier.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
Kuma wrote:
sorry to change the subject a little, but are there any axle CV assemblies that will plug into a Pilot trans? I wouldn't really care about the outer as that could be fully reworked to use the mating carrier.


Yes, pilot axles

Sorry I had to

I have not found any , and I looked pretty hard

I did find a civic inboard that had the same splines (or very close) but it's a low angle CV , doesn't do any good


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
This is the jist of what I was getting at as far as using a FL350 hub as an inner half, inner CV as the other. The result being a DIY conversion to a Polaris shaft (or whatever).

Would prob need to machine some type of a "spline" on each opposite piece so that you wouldn't be putting all the torque on welds, which will require a bit of mill-skill and prob a couple of practice runs on scrap. Could be a simple clover shape or whatever. CNC required.

Would need to prob use the same allen bolt retention on the hub to keep it on the output shaft and allow CV's to do all the plunging.

You could call this the "CHEATER LOW COST" or "MALE SPLINE" method to what Emmanual is working on with the FEMALE-splined output shaft.


Attachments:
File comment: Rough idea...obviously the hubs fingers would get removed, but this is to visually understand.
Presentation2.jpg
Presentation2.jpg [ 28.37 KiB | Viewed 841 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
This is the jist of what I was getting at as far as using a FL350 hub as an inner half, inner CV as the other. The result being a DIY conversion to a Polaris shaft (or whatever).

Would prob need to machine some type of a "spline" on each opposite piece so that you wouldn't be putting all the torque on welds, which will require a bit of mill-skill and prob a couple of practice runs on scrap. Could be a simple clover shape or whatever. CNC required.

Would need to prob use the same allen bolt retention on the hub to keep it on the output shaft and allow CV's to do all the plunging.

You could call this the "CHEATER LOW COST" or "MALE SPLINE" method to what Emmanual is working on with the FEMALE-splined output shaft.


Drill and tap and countersink about four (4) 1/4-24 flat head allen bolts from inside the CV cup into the hub flange after weld??? Blue loctite - damn spell check wanted to say lactate!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
that ranger carrier looks promising but so does a Vw bearing carrier out of a trailing arm. Looks like lots of options available. now to make one work. the outside is the easy part, its the trans side that is the one that needs special attention. why not chop the splines off the ranger inner cv cup and weld that to the 350 u joint piece that bolts to the splines? That looks real easy to do. WHY has it not been done?? Seams entirely cheaper than modifying the trans to except it. Just asking, that looks beyond easy. just thinking out loud


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7686
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
that ranger carrier looks promising but so does a Vw bearing carrier out of a trailing arm. Looks like lots of options available. now to make one work. the outside is the easy part, its the trans side that is the one that needs special attention. why not chop the splines off the ranger inner cv cup and weld that to the 350 u joint piece that bolts to the splines? That looks real easy to do. WHY has it not been done?? Seams entirely cheaper than modifying the trans to except it. Just asking, that looks beyond easy. just thinking out loud


Man it sounds like you have a lot of good ideas. Can't wait to see what you build.
Do the axel thing first please.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
WHY has it not been done??

It is easy and it has been done. But don't forget a lot of guys don't have your fab skills. The Aussies have been doing it for a while.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3758
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Here's some more stuff I just remembered.
This is a 350 Ody I bought from Aus- Eastern States,South Aus-I THINK?
Was an ex racer and quite modified.
Rear and front ends worked real well for a non-pro/OEM built setup?
Was a real fun machine.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2141&p=13765&hilit=daihatsu#p13765


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
YES...just lob off the Rgr/Rzr stub (maybe a tad more), clean up an Oddy axle inner yoke -or- a hub, weld 'em, and GO GO GO.

OR the other idea I had was to machine up a nice adapter from scratch (tough steel, 4130), take the hub or stock axle inner and machine it down into an insert, and then press fit and weld the insert into the machined adapter. Then lob off the end of the Rgr/Rzr axle and weld 'em. No other way to match output 350's shaft splines economically. Period. This idea would just give you more design freedom with the adapter rather than trying to make an adapter out of the hub/yoke.

OR if you don't care about rear width (because maybe your front end is wide LT already)...you can just make a 4130 adapter that simply accepts the unmolested Polaris axle.

Keeping it outside the gearbox is important, IMO. If you snap an axle, you go buy another affordably-priced Polaris axle and fab another one up. If you were to blow up a custom output shaft in the trans, you're out A LOT more $'s.

Axle mod is still cheaper than the RPM/TM gearboxes.

The outer and the links are the easy/fun part, like you said. Rgr/Rzr axle will work. VW CV joint is too big to squeeze in close to the stock gearbox (unless your adapter was like 5" long).

We talked about this endeavor over 1yr ago, lol. I would've tried this already, but day-to-day life hasn't allowed me the time. Just never made it to the top of the priority list!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
bugeye59 wrote:
Here's some more stuff I just remembered.
This is a 350 Ody I bought from Aus- Eastern States,South Aus-I THINK?
Was an ex racer and quite modified.
Rear and front ends worked real well for a non-pro/OEM built setup?
Was a real fun machine.

http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.ph ... tsu#p13765


Yep...that's it right there...(stole your pics)...


Attachments:
Picture 039.jpg
Picture 039.jpg [ 93.05 KiB | Viewed 794 times ]
Picture 040.jpg
Picture 040.jpg [ 96.57 KiB | Viewed 794 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Haven't the FL350 issues been dealt with I think it's called a FL400?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
afastcar wrote:
Haven't the FL350 issues been dealt with I think it's called a FL400?


Haaaa! But last time I checked, you couldn't get a Pilot axle brand new for $70-$100 either. :-)

Simply put, its a DIY fab'venture.

Cost to DIY a LT axle/carrier/hub set for the same stock 3'fiddy trans: $250 + links/arms
Cost to buy a RPM box with axles and stubs (no carrier, no hubs): $2000+.
Cost to buy a Pilot: $4000+.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
afastcar wrote:
Haven't the FL350 issues been dealt with I think it's called a FL400?


Haaaa! But last time I checked, you couldn't get a Pilot axle brand new for $70-$100 either. :-)

Simply put, its a DIY fab'venture.

Cost to DIY a LT axle/carrier/hub set for the same stock 3'fiddy trans: $250 + links/arms
Cost to buy a RPM box with axles and stubs (no carrier, no hubs): $2000+.
Cost to buy a Pilot: $4000+.


I still don't see it.
You have to buy a 350.
Put A-arm front suspension on it.
Water cool head, radiator, plumbing, overflow bottle.
Build rear suspension.
All this for under $4000?
And you still don't have side panels, clutch in trans, you have cable brakes, then when you go to sale it it's worth $2000 still and the Pilots still worth $4000.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Back to the outer...

The Rzr/Rgr/Sportsman rear carriers...the HUB is what rides in the bearing, correct?

So really the stock carrier/knuckle isn't the key component there -- its the BEARING and the hub. Machine a bearing pocket into whatever material & geometry you want. Make sure the spacing is right so the castle nut can still hold the hub in place. Weld on your 4- or 5-link mounts in double-shear. Done.

Buy a Polaris axle ($70), Polaris hub ($20), new 40x74x40 wheel bearing ($20), used ATC/FL350 hub/inner ($12), and a chunk of 2" thk x 5" OD steel bar ($17 ebay) = $130 per side.

Don't waste your $'s on the aluminum rear carriers. Plus most of the carriers will need the $20 bearing replaced anyways.


Attachments:
File comment: Hub
$_577.JPG
$_577.JPG [ 35.14 KiB | Viewed 776 times ]
File comment: Set
$_578.JPG
$_578.JPG [ 36.68 KiB | Viewed 776 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
afastcar wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
afastcar wrote:
Haven't the FL350 issues been dealt with I think it's called a FL400?


Haaaa! But last time I checked, you couldn't get a Pilot axle brand new for $70-$100 either. :-)

Simply put, its a DIY fab'venture.

Cost to DIY a LT axle/carrier/hub set for the same stock 3'fiddy trans: $250 + links/arms
Cost to buy a RPM box with axles and stubs (no carrier, no hubs): $2000+.
Cost to buy a Pilot: $4000+.


I still don't see it.
You have to buy a 350.
Put A-arm front suspension on it.
Water cool head, radiator, plumbing, overflow bottle.
Build rear suspension.
All this for under $4000?
And you still don't have side panels, clutch in trans, you have cable brakes, then when you go to sale it it's worth $2000 still and the Pilots still worth $4000.



Its assumed someone already owns the FL350 and wants to improve it. Nothin' more.

Not trying to out-do the Pilot. Just make the FL350 rear end "cooler" and on a squeaky budget and while having some fab-fun.

If money wasn't an issue...I'd just go out and buy someone's completed turbo-Busa-powered, RPM-driven, LT, chromoly-caged, 2-seater buggy and blow the doors off everything. But that's not what I'm after. I ride on farm land, have limited disposable income available for buggy stuff, already own a few FL350's, and love to design/fab/drive/fix my own stuff. Its a challenge and its fun, not always practical.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:42 am
Posts: 642
What is the spline count and the wheel mounting size of that hub? I think ill have to build my own hubs. (1) I will need a custom offset (2) I already purchased my rear wheels and tires so I'd like to stick with the factory lug pattern.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], chorizofingers, eseymour72, Google [Bot], Lanix, Rppjr


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group