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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I am picking up a fl 350 this weekend, I have the Pilot pretty well sorted out, a lot of people have asked me for 350 stuff, I will start figuring on the 350 a little later in the year. I have several ideas for them but give me a list of what you would like to see to improve your fl 350 minus the Engine. What would YOU like to see? Thank you, this 350 will be a blank piece to do what ever on, I am getting it to make things for them---Dave-Co


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
I am picking up a fl 350 this weekend, I have the Pilot pretty well sorted out, a lot of people have asked me for 350 stuff, I will start figuring on the 350 a little later in the year. I have several ideas for them but give me a list of what you would like to see to improve your fl 350 minus the Engine. What would YOU like to see? Thank you, this 350 will be a blank piece to do what ever on, I am getting it to make things for them---Dave-Co


1) Bolt on LT front suspension that utilizes the J arm mounts and disk brakes.
2) Hiem joints not ball joints.
3) Fenders reasonable priced.
4) Liquid cooled cylinder.
5) Spare fuel tank (not some dumbass mounted tank behind and above your head)
I am thinking a poly tank mounted at the back or two small poly tanks beside you.
6) Side bolt on skirting to keep the crap out of your lap.
7) Rear facing camera with screen mounted on the steering wheel instead of those weak mirrors.
8) Front bolt on basket to put stuff. Roof top basket ?? Both ??
9) Seat cover of some kind to cover up rips or tears. (Something that don't absorb water).
10) ??? well I was trying for top ten LOL.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:15 am 
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I will try to come up with the front end, I had a bunch of 350s when they first came out bought them right out of the crate but except for 1 we kept them completly stock. One I did a shock mount on for the rear that connected to the cage and spent time re valving the shock till the rear worked about 4 times better than it did with just the stock shock. I used the stock shock as a coil carrier only and made the Fox shock do all the work. I don't remember much more about them only that we did nothing but ride them and I mean a lot. I use to run only 115 octain leaded race gas in the engines which were totally stock and the temp difference was amazing between race gas and regular unleaded or premium. We used maxima superM racing oil at 50 to 1 and they ran night and day as only a Honda seams to do. We had 6 of them at 1 time and never had a Engine blow and never had any issues with them at all. We would go to our property at Gordons well almost every week threw out the year keeping them in containers we had(have) so it was nothing to go out there as we have a house there and all. We went threw more 55 gallon drums of race fuel than I can remember as my good friend who had 1 also owns a big oil company out here that sells everything gas and oil related so the fuel is free!!! We would take 2 barrels of fuel and burn threw all of it on some weekends.. I only have ours and his 1 to go off of but I completly believe the race gas helped those air cooled engines stay alive. We would even go out during the summer when day time temp was about 120 and about 110 at night. For any odyssey owner that wants to see the difference get some race gas and try pump gas as you use now, you wont believe the difference. I know race gas is very expensive, stupidly expensive now, but you can feel the difference in a big way in the Engine area. We never rested them, when we rode it was till the tank was empty, . This was all in the sand dunes except for the trip out and back from our property. Not once did any of us get towed in either. I am still amazed what we put those fl 350s threw, I have to laugh. We use to sky those things off the biggest crap we could find. My friend Dan we call Danimal was nuts in that thing. I have never seen anyone in anything catch the air he did going off giant dunes. I know my pilots would do better but we are talking crazy stuff in fl 350s. They never failed us. It was cool going to the Honda dealer and buying 4 brand new 350s at 1 time. I watched them take em out of the crates and put them together and we took them home all in about 2 hours time. and bought a 85 250R three wheeler at the same time and got to see that taken out of its shipping crate and put together and started for the first time. All were started for the first time that night in 1985. Why we didnt buy new pilots I cant remember only that they were real expensive for just 1. 2 months after buying the 4 we bought 2 more, we would have bought 3 but they had to get it there and we just took the 2. memories lol


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Awesome FL350 memories, man!

To the list...
- LT rear
- brakes, brakes, brakes
- power steering
- drop an ETEC in it
- start building gearboxes!

Can't think of too much that already hasn't been done!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
I would like to see would be some type of bolt on adapter to run a different rear shock or the Showa / Fox setup you spoke of. Some of us do not have any welding skills nor the equipment to do so bolt on is essential.

The other modification would be a 3rd link for the rear suspension so if the "U" joint goes, it doesn't take out the shock. I don't know if the stock geometry will allow for this though. If this is not possible, then designing a 3rd link and a CV joint drive system.

Rand


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
I will try to come up with the front end, I had a bunch of 350s when they first came out bought them right out of the crate but except for 1 we kept them completly stock. One I did a shock mount on for the rear that connected to the cage and spent time re valving the shock till the rear worked about 4 times better than it did with just the stock shock. I used the stock shock as a coil carrier only and made the Fox shock do all the work. I don't remember much more about them only that we did nothing but ride them and I mean a lot. I use to run only 115 octain leaded race gas in the engines which were totally stock and the temp difference was amazing between race gas and regular unleaded or premium. We used maxima superM racing oil at 50 to 1 and they ran night and day as only a Honda seams to do. We had 6 of them at 1 time and never had a Engine blow and never had any issues with them at all. We would go to our property at Gordons well almost every week threw out the year keeping them in containers we had(have) so it was nothing to go out there as we have a house there and all. We went threw more 55 gallon drums of race fuel than I can remember as my good friend who had 1 also owns a big oil company out here that sells everything gas and oil related so the fuel is free!!! We would take 2 barrels of fuel and burn threw all of it on some weekends.. I only have ours and his 1 to go off of but I completly believe the race gas helped those air cooled engines stay alive. We would even go out during the summer when day time temp was about 120 and about 110 at night. For any odyssey owner that wants to see the difference get some race gas and try pump gas as you use now, you wont believe the difference. I know race gas is very expensive, stupidly expensive now, but you can feel the difference in a big way in the Engine area. We never rested them, when we rode it was till the tank was empty, . This was all in the sand dunes except for the trip out and back from our property. Not once did any of us get towed in either. I am still amazed what we put those fl 350s threw, I have to laugh. We use to sky those things off the biggest crap we could find. My friend Dan we call Danimal was nuts in that thing. I have never seen anyone in anything catch the air he did going off giant dunes. I know my pilots would do better but we are talking crazy stuff in fl 350s. They never failed us. It was cool going to the Honda dealer and buying 4 brand new 350s at 1 time. I watched them take em out of the crates and put them together and we took them home all in about 2 hours time. and bought a 85 250R three wheeler at the same time and got to see that taken out of its shipping crate and put together and started for the first time. All were started for the first time that night in 1985. Why we didnt buy new pilots I cant remember only that they were real expensive for just 1. 2 months after buying the 4 we bought 2 more, we would have bought 3 but they had to get it there and we just took the 2. memories lol


Well this story just confirms my suspicions.
I run only avgas now and the poofkaboom issues went away. I was always blaming Wiseco. Yes there were other issues that had to be fixed as well. I made my own water cooled head and cylinder, run avgas and they run liked raped apes. If you read the manual it tells you what the "min" octane rating is that you can run in these machines. Well I can't even make the "min" rating here. Also the gas in the 80's was different than it is now. I can't prove that but I believe it. Just my opinion but my opinion must be right because they run now. Believe what you want. Every man for himself.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Axiation gas is good stuff, it is steady and the same all the time. Using av gas in 4 stroke vehicles requires some top oil because it is formulated to burn at altitude but a 2 stroke you are adding oil anyway. Av gas is rite at 100 octain much better than the crap we have available today. As I said the 115 we ran the temp of the Engine was night and day different from regular pump gas. I run plain old regular in my pilots with zero problems but they are water cooled, when I get this 350 running I will only run race gas in it under all circumstances. You said it, my Engine never had anything happen no mater how hot it was in the desert, I am convinced all would have melted using regular pump gas. Even if I had to pay full price for the race gas I would in a red hot moment, its cheaper than living on the edge with pump gas in my opinion. I am also convinced the water cooled head and everything that is added to 350 Engine is un needed with high octain fuel. Give it a try if you don't think so, it will suprise you


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:13 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
We are hijacking this thread with the fuel thing. Back to original thread.
I would second Randman request (above).
That would make my top ten list at #10 position.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I know I can figure out some way of making a bolt on thock for the cage, when I get the machine tomorrow I will look at the rear suspension and get a ides of what can be done on that. The cage part is easy the bottom is 2 welding 2 tabs per side to hole the shock, but I will look for a way to do bolt on. We flew to the moon, this should not be to huge a issue. My memories are foggy on the machines, is the master cylinder connected to the steering column on these?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Yes it is. I kicked around the idea of a foot brake system for mine.

Rand


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I plan on making some shock savers for the oddy's.
It's low priority right now but I just spent an hour with a measuring tape out in the shop.
This is an easy one. It will be all bolt on.
Will start a new thread with pics when I get around to it but it's off to work for two days right now.
See ya all Monday.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
finally it took forever


too bad i don't own a fl350 anymore lol


rear LT would be great :-)


if you can make a bolt on front LT kit that uses stock quad arms that would be awesome


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:45 pm
Posts: 149
Location: cleveland oh
New axles that don't use U joints? That way we don't need shock savers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Well its sitting on the trailer in front of my house its new home! To many things going on for the next couple of months but later in the year I will start doing things. Had to get it now while the getting was good! Needs some things and finished putting it back together but that is the fun part right? My littlest Sally will be the new driver of this HOT ROD. Hard to believe the difference between the 350 and pilot, my memories was foggy on the 350 till I have several Oh yea moments this morning lol Has all the fenders good seat EEE nickel plated pipe good tires fresh rebuilt Engine top and bottom new wheel bearings and seals, the axlws look good, boy what a change from the pilot. I am going to spend time on a shock saver kit of some kind to help prevent the shock from breaking if the axle does. Has ANYONE made anything in the past that does this??? Any pictures of this? Thanks ahead of time


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Well Dave there is the old limit straps that are what I am running. They loop around the bottom part of the frame and then attach to the top of the bearing carrier.
This isn't a great picture but here is my first set. The second set I made were a lot thicker.


I have also seen a third link that has been welded to the frame.

Here is a link to this discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9549&view=next


Rand


Attachments:
Rand's Limit Straps.JPG
Rand's Limit Straps.JPG [ 100.67 KiB | Viewed 1119 times ]
FL350 Third Link.jpg
FL350 Third Link.jpg [ 86.2 KiB | Viewed 1119 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
IMO the link/strap should be kept as high or higher than the axle so its harder to snag something on the trail.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Thank you for the pictures and the information. I have a better idea of where to go. In the past when I had 350s not one did I ever have axle issues but it seams to damage things when it happens. Does anyone have any bad trans end axle part that bolts to the trans splines. Seams overly simple to me to cut the ujoint end and weld a vw or even a 930 cup to it to use a Vw or 930 cv joint and axle the same on the end that goes into the other end make some a arms and couple of links or so and walla bad arse long travel suspension in the rear that can rival the pilots with parts available EVERYWHERE with race cvs and cages and axles. I cannot believe this has not been done. I sat out in my garage for over a hour today looking at that possibility, I know it can be done. The cv will miss the trans case where it looks close. TOO SIMPLE, get rid of the axle being part of the suspension and let it do its real job of being a axle only. Done rite I cannot see it ever being a issue again. If anyone has bad axles that cant be fixed laying around that could be the start of something very cool for the fl 350 please let me know, and I have the perfect car to do it with! Been brain storming I cannot think why it wont work, no more crappy u joints. The parts would be so much stronger than anything on the market. With the splines not having to support the suspension and the car they should be fine. I know many people in the racing world, we can make this happen! I will not say that this can be a bolt on set up but I see no reason true long travel cant be brought to the rear of the 350 I will try! if I can get some pieces to work with. The axles on this look to good to cut up. I am sure some one has some bad ones laying around


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:16 am 
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the front end would not be much trouble to improve drastically. The rear wont look much like a 350 but will be a huge improvement. The Japs were smoking some heavy stuff when they came up with the pilot rear suspension, I think some one died from what ever they were smoking when they came up with the 350s, what a suspension isnt it lol. How about the 1 that staped oko doki on that lolI bet they were whispering between them quote no one will copy us, we will have the market on theeese LOL Being a suspension person kinda who has been involved with all types of off road cars I still ask, was some one trying to be funny or trying to put the most horrible thing on there and see if people would buy it laughing all the way to the bank when people did. I personally think they are great machines but when 1 thing breaks it like a snow ball effect and expensive by the time it stops moving.There are so many very simple designs that would have been so much better and more cheap to make at the same time. Drakart is another that comes to mind over complicating things that cause more trouble down the line. In his case it took more work to make a awfull suspension that was close but missed by abour 4 inches. That 4 inches causes axle and cv problems and nearly unobtainable axles and cv joints for most that have them. We have had no issue as yet but I am going to make sure of that by adding that 4 or so inches where everything rides happy.. Oh well that's what makes the world go round.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:04 am 
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The transmission shaft is 24 spline its the same as a banshee rear hub it will slide right on. This may be easier to find than 350 shafts. Blaster is the same as well idk about raptor, warrior,yfz450 etc. That was my first plan was to use the splined portion of the hubs to attach to some kind of cv. But I've decided to modify the output shaft to accept the cv. Hope that helps a little


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
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Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Dave-Co wrote:
Thank you for the pictures and the information. I have a better idea of where to go. In the past when I had 350s not one did I ever have axle issues but it seams to damage things when it happens. Does anyone have any bad trans end axle part that bolts to the trans splines. Seams overly simple to me to cut the ujoint end and weld a vw or even a 930 cup to it to use a Vw or 930 cv joint and axle the same on the end that goes into the other end make some a arms and couple of links or so and walla bad arse long travel suspension in the rear that can rival the pilots with parts available EVERYWHERE with race cvs and cages and axles. I cannot believe this has not been done. I sat out in my garage for over a hour today looking at that possibility, I know it can be done. The cv will miss the trans case where it looks close. TOO SIMPLE, get rid of the axle being part of the suspension and let it do its real job of being a axle only. Done rite I cannot see it ever being a issue again. If anyone has bad axles that cant be fixed laying around that could be the start of something very cool for the fl 350 please let me know, and I have the perfect car to do it with! Been brain storming I cannot think why it wont work, no more crappy u joints. The parts would be so much stronger than anything on the market. With the splines not having to support the suspension and the car they should be fine. I know many people in the racing world, we can make this happen! I will not say that this can be a bolt on set up but I see no reason true long travel cant be brought to the rear of the 350 I will try! if I can get some pieces to work with. The axles on this look to good to cut up. I am sure some one has some bad ones laying around



I was actually headed down this road myself once, but its on the backburner. Rather than use an inboard axle yoke, I was planning on using a rear wheel hub off the FL350 (also on some ATCs). They are the same spline as the trans output shaft. Plan was to remove studs, turn down the hub surface, and then weld on an adapter for a more popular CV axle. Wasn't sure how to keep the adapter on there...either same way the inboard axle shaft has the 2 allen bolts, or with some type of retention clip. I have a VW carrier, too, which are actually fairly similar to the Pilot carrier except SUPER HEAVY. Its a solid casting. So...the plan was to either hack off the extra material, or just start over and make a simple carrier that was far lighter.

VW axles are HEAVY DUTY, and my only fear was that the weak link would be moved into the gearbox instead of at a u-joint.

Lengthening the stock axles only gains travel at the cost of width (angular travel is same).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:01 pm 
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I will be contacting some machine shops this week to get some pricing on having a new shaft built to accept the ranger shafts. I will post what info I get on my build thread. The ranger shafts were reasonably priced about $100 each.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Sa-weeeet.

Let me know if you need any CAD help. I'm a Creo (Pro/E) whiz.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
"Seams overly simple to me to cut the ujoint end and weld a vw or even a 930 cup to it to use a Vw or 930 cv joint and axle the same on the end that goes into the other end make some a arms and couple of links or so and walla bad arse long travel suspension"..

I agree and have been saying the same thing for years. Our Aussie friends did this many years ago and even posted the pics here. Its the silly Americans that cant seem to figure it out.

looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Its not something that can be used with the stock 350 suspension, I climbed under it again last night the bottom shield? on the gas tank would need some clearence as well as the tank itself maybe. I was looking at doing it the simplest way I could think to do it, a type 2 vw joints and vw size axles would be a very good way of doing it. Worst case scenario is the gas tank may have to be relocated for up travel but this is very early in the process. Certainly do not want to step on anyones toes doing this, just trying to do something to get rid of those U joints and give 350 people a taste of what my pilots have become. and do it as simple as I can. I also looked at the shock saver thing and think maybe and this is a maybe people have been going on the wrong side of things, if and this is a if you were to add another pivot up front sorta kinda like a Vw suspension has I could imagin something along those lines MAYBE working to keep from destroying shocks when the axle lets go. I spent a half hour last night exploring the possibility and it appears possible to do something like that. Something that will at least stop it from destroying the shock. A lot less movement up front to bind and if its hymed it may work. Just giving some ideas I have.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
Its not something that can be used with the stock 350 suspension, I climbed under it again last night the bottom shield? on the gas tank would need some clearence as well as the tank itself maybe. I was looking at doing it the simplest way I could think to do it, a type 2 vw joints and vw size axles would be a very good way of doing it. Worst case scenario is the gas tank may have to be relocated for up travel but this is very early in the process. Certainly do not want to step on anyones toes doing this, just trying to do something to get rid of those U joints and give 350 people a taste of what my pilots have become. and do it as simple as I can. I also looked at the shock saver thing and think maybe and this is a maybe people have been going on the wrong side of things, if and this is a if you were to add another pivot up front sorta kinda like a Vw suspension has I could imagin something along those lines MAYBE working to keep from destroying shocks when the axle lets go. I spent a half hour last night exploring the possibility and it appears possible to do something like that. Something that will at least stop it from destroying the shock. A lot less movement up front to bind and if its hymed it may work. Just giving some ideas I have.


I love this thread. Lots of ideas. I am going to put a priority on my shock saver idea and post.
With reguards to an axel breakage destroying everything when it breaks a U joint, I was thinking along the lines of a retaining ring. On my racecar back in the 80's we had to have a steel retaining loop in case of a U joint breakage. Could you build something like that for the FL350 ??


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