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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Took the 1600 race car to Barstow today to do some shock tuning, also took the fl350 along to test it out also. All I can say is holy cow what a difference from a LT pilot lol The 102c clutch was acting up on it so it did not perform as well as I wanted it to, as soon as I walked in the door went right to my computer and orderd a 94C for it as well as a brand new driven clutch just to be sure of no clutch problems. One thing I noticed and its been years since I have driven a 350 was the vibration, could be the clutch, it runs great, no issues with that but I can say it turn horrible and I do mean bad compaired to my pilots. The suspension has works??(I don't think they work) shocks and is not the best. My kids that went with us all road it and all complained about the steering(lack of PS) but the turning radius is worse than my F-350 crew cab long bed 4x4 with 40 inch tires that hit the leef springs lol. Is that normal?? I cant remember, its been to long. We will keep it, its part of the stable now, its still a fun car to drive and I know when the clutch works right it will be a lot of fun. I already mounted 2 35 watt 7 inch HID lights on it so who ever can drive it at night AND SEE! I can say after driving it at Barstow I could not imagin putting a snow mobile Engine in one except for the sand dunes, the suspension is just not good enough for anywhere else in my humble opinion but I am comming from my pilots back to a 350. At least the 350 road threw a whole tank of gas and returned running and drivable, the race car exploded a 930 Cv joint on the last pass of the day. Back to work lol


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2147
Location: St. John, Washington
Dave-Co wrote:
Took the 1600 race car to Barstow today to do some shock tuning, also took the fl350 along to test it out also. All I can say is holy cow what a difference from a LT pilot lol The 102c clutch was acting up on it so it did not perform as well as I wanted it to, as soon as I walked in the door went right to my computer and orderd a 94C for it as well as a brand new driven clutch just to be sure of no clutch problems. One thing I noticed and its been years since I have driven a 350 was the vibration, could be the clutch, it runs great, no issues with that but I can say it turn horrible and I do mean bad compaired to my pilots. The suspension has works??(I don't think they work) shocks and is not the best. My kids that went with us all road it and all complained about the steering(lack of PS) but the turning radius is worse than my F-350 crew cab long bed 4x4 with 40 inch tires that hit the leef springs lol. Is that normal?? I cant remember, its been to long. We will keep it, its part of the stable now, its still a fun car to drive and I know when the clutch works right it will be a lot of fun. I already mounted 2 35 watt 7 inch HID lights on it so who ever can drive it at night AND SEE! I can say after driving it at Barstow I could not imagin putting a snow mobile Engine in one except for the sand dunes, the suspension is just not good enough for anywhere else in my humble opinion but I am comming from my pilots back to a 350. At least the 350 road threw a whole tank of gas and returned running and drivable, the race car exploded a 930 Cv joint on the last pass of the day. Back to work lol



my FL350 also had a poor turning radius. don't know if the aftermarket wheels contributed to that or not.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
must be something with the 350s. cause mine is horrible at turning..even with the long travel front turns a bit better..i think lol...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 258
Location: Newport Mi
Eh who needs to turn lmao I want a pilot with a blown Engine I cannot find one that is complete I keep finding only 1 at a time for like 5000.00 running eh hopefully I find one


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Yup the turning is crap on the fl350. Pushes real bad.
I did a wheel alignment recently and found that one machine had toe in and one was neutral.
That may have caused turning issues on my machines. I now have them set toe out 1/2" but have not had a chance to test drive them with this set up. Still snow in the mountains here.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
I may be wrong but wouldn't rear toe setting effect steering too?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Yeah turning radius sucks,takes a special technique to apply brakes just right then punch it to whip the rear end around :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
My pilot doesn't want to turn either? that is going slow just making a turning maneuver to get it in the driveway or something, now running it hard in the sand is another story, on the gas straight, off the gas turn the wheel, on the gas it will whip around as tight as a quad.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I cannot believe how bad it turns, much worst then a Pilot, what I don't understand was people trying to talk me into copying the 350s steering on the pilot....stupid idea...DUMB.....How about Vibration, do amy experience that? I am guesing its the 102c clutch but what do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
I cannot believe how bad it turns, much worst then a Pilot, what I don't understand was people trying to talk me into copying the 350s steering on the pilot....stupid idea...DUMB.....How about Vibration, do amy experience that? I am guesing its the 102c clutch but what do you guys think?


I never really paid any attention to vibration. To damn busy trying to keep the machine on the road and not over the bank on some mountain. Lets face it boys if you want a Cadillac then buy a new machine. These units are 30yrs old. Drive what ya got.
Back to your question, my money is on that potential bad 102. We do have some vibration in our machines but I didn't think it was that bad. Check those Engine mounts. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
Took the 1600 race car to Barstow today to do some shock tuning, also took the fl350 along to test it out also. All I can say is holy cow what a difference from a LT pilot lol The 102c clutch was acting up on it so it did not perform as well as I wanted it to, as soon as I walked in the door went right to my computer and orderd a 94C for it as well as a brand new driven clutch just to be sure of no clutch problems. One thing I noticed and its been years since I have driven a 350 was the vibration, could be the clutch, it runs great, no issues with that but I can say it turn horrible and I do mean bad compaired to my pilots. The suspension has works??(I don't think they work) shocks and is not the best. My kids that went with us all road it and all complained about the steering(lack of PS) but the turning radius is worse than my F-350 crew cab long bed 4x4 with 40 inch tires that hit the leef springs lol. Is that normal?? I cant remember, its been to long. We will keep it, its part of the stable now, its still a fun car to drive and I know when the clutch works right it will be a lot of fun. I already mounted 2 35 watt 7 inch HID lights on it so who ever can drive it at night AND SEE! I can say after driving it at Barstow I could not imagin putting a snow mobile Engine in one except for the sand dunes, the suspension is just not good enough for anywhere else in my humble opinion but I am comming from my pilots back to a 350. At least the 350 road threw a whole tank of gas and returned running and drivable, the race car exploded a 930 Cv joint on the last pass of the day. Back to work lol


See you have pussified your kids with the power steering sounds like them Polaris RZR pussies that complain about the steering in a RZR until they install the 800.00 power steering on their RZR's. my frail little wife has drove both my Pilots and my RZR and never once complained about the heavy steering whats next hiring a driver for our OFF ROAD toys haha

No offense to anybody I just find it it funny that todays OFF ROAD group has evolved into a huge group of complaining pussies ITS OFF ROAD.

On another note Wheelman had no problems or complaints getting his QUADRIPLEGIC body to drive his Pilot with the harder to steer rack and pinion steering, he even managed to keep up with the group at the dunes regardless how hard and fast we drove our Pilots without a single complaint :-) amazing to see adults with full body functionality complain about steering.

This has been brought up and discussed many times before and to me its funny every time I read it knowing what I know, seeing what I have seen, and doing what I have done in a Pilot viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13228

Whilst were on the subject proof you don't need a death grip and forearm pump when steering a Pilot viewtopic.php?f=1&t=114 :-) Wheelman had no forearms to pump :shock: or too complain about....

FYI stock FL350s always turned easier and better than the stock Pilots did, a FL350 was much better at driving through corners Pilots were better at plowing through corners, if your not impressed with the ride of the WORKS shocks on a 350 either they might be setup for someone way out of your weight range find a stock 350 and compare too they are a 100% improvement over stock my guess is the 350 your riding has about 1/2 the suspension travel of your modified Pilots and is only using about 1/3 of the travel over the same bumps your taking the Pilots over so yeah its really going to suck :shock: My guess is its like comparing your 1600 race car to a stock VW in the desert heh

Cant wait to see your 350 suspension evolution not much was ever done back in the racing days most abandon them and went right to a machine like Triple EEE or a Briggs Built.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
I cannot believe how bad it turns, much worst then a Pilot, what I don't understand was people trying to talk me into copying the 350s steering on the pilot....stupid idea...DUMB.....How about Vibration, do amy experience that? I am guesing its the 102c clutch but what do you guys think?

Get into the front suspension see if some or all the parts are worn out, also check the rear TOE as suggested if its off it will mess with the steering.

My guess is its the clutch causing the Engine vibration if you replace the clutch and the vibration continues then check the balancer gears to ensure the timing marks line up.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Kuma wrote:
My pilot doesn't want to turn either? that is going slow just making a turning maneuver to get it in the driveway or something, now running it hard in the sand is another story, on the gas straight, off the gas turn the wheel, on the gas it will whip around as tight as a quad.



Pilots always plowed and never really steered since new, I got mine to rail by changing to the FOX air shocks and adjusting them where they are really soft for the first part of the travel this allows the weight to shift to the outside wheel in a turn and plant the weight on that tire so it will turn, to see what I mean add 25 lbs of weigh to the front of your Pilot then go for a ride see how it turns then. Later in my Pilots life I added +2.5" arms up front being wider also helped with the steering as well as with the suspension travel without breaking the bank and still being able to go down trails the LT Pilots cant make.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Fl350's will turn just fine if they are set up properly.

First, the front wheel offset makes a difference. My wife's totally stock Fl350 has a tighter turning radius than mine. Why..... hers has stock front wheels and mine has aftermarket aluminum wheels.

Also, make sure the rear end is properly aligned. This also makes a big difference. By playing with the rear tow, one can get an Ody to turn quickly at low speed. The only drawback is that they are quite twitchy at high speed on hard pack if you go too far.

And another one.... make sure the rear camber is properly set as this can also make a difference.

Rand


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
It does need larger springs for some one like me but my kids had trouble turning it also, the front end is not worn at all, the person I got it from had gone threw and replaced all kinds of things on it new bushings up front, the front end is tight and straight, but the wheels don't seem to turn as tight as the pilot does for reason I have not figured out yet.I don't see how they could turn anymore but I am going to look into it. Orderd a 94c and new driven for it, I want to make a rider out of it then will look at updating suspension. I really cant see putting 110 to 140 HP in one of these things, how do the U joints hold up to that kind of power? The rear end sure does waky things thasts for sure. I bet the jap that designed that rear end killed himself in shame lol and the one who stamped OK also with a giant sword Yea my kids and wife have been pussafied I admitt that, all of them have I should have stuck to my guns and not let them drive the first one I did but it snow balled from there. Do we have to have PS no but once there none never want to go back with out it and I would bet my house your wife would be no different lol. My wife of 34 years has thousands and thousands of miles in fl 350s and Pilots, more in 350s nearly as much as I do, we had them when they were brand new and she weighs in about 78 pounds wet and never NEEDED or had to have power steering to drive them but once with it on one she loved it and insisted on all of ours have it. Who am I to say no lol As she says it makes driving them that much more fun. You wont convince any that have driven with it or have had it put on that its a stupid addition or a waste to put it on. I don't push anyone to put it on or bend no ones arm when it comes to PS, I don't have to, the huge smile and oh my fing gods sell its self. yea its not a cheap addition but I know no one that says they wasted there money on it, in fact they say they would of paid double or triple lol In the end were all just enjoying the rides we enjoy!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
i just love it how everyone is a ((Bad Word)) when they upgrade to something like PS..
why do we modify our buggies. for more enjoyment, whether that's in the form of more power, suspension travel, or just upgrading shocks, and the list goes on and on. so i guess the only ones on this site that aren't pussies are the ones that are riding a completely stock machine.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
You are correct, its just 1 of many mods done on a daily basis to the machines we love and enjoy!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
fully wrote:
i just love it how everyone is a ((Bad Word)) when they upgrade to something like PS..
why do we modify our buggies. for more enjoyment, whether that's in the form of more power, suspension travel, or just upgrading shocks, and the list goes on and on. so i guess the only ones on this site that aren't pussies are the ones that are riding a completely stock machine.



Thanks for taking what I said all wrong and not directly replying to me or my comments..

Feel free to modify your machine any way you want I reserve the right to laugh at any modification performed just like laughing at the 100's of other machines modified presented and discussed on this site (users are posting links and pics all the time of modified machines we laugh at), also reserve my right to express my opinions about the modifications just like others :-) its what makes this site so great!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I agree, no harm no faul!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
It does need larger springs for some one like me but my kids had trouble turning it also, the front end is not worn at all, the person I got it from had gone threw and replaced all kinds of things on it new bushings up front, the front end is tight and straight, but the wheels don't seem to turn as tight as the pilot does for reason I have not figured out yet.I don't see how they could turn anymore but I am going to look into it. Orderd a 94c and new driven for it, I want to make a rider out of it then will look at updating suspension. I really cant see putting 110 to 140 HP in one of these things, how do the U joints hold up to that kind of power? The rear end sure does waky things thasts for sure. I bet the jap that designed that rear end killed himself in shame lol and the one who stamped OK also with a giant sword Yea my kids and wife have been pussafied I admitt that, all of them have I should have stuck to my guns and not let them drive the first one I did but it snow balled from there. Do we have to have PS no but once there none never want to go back with out it and I would bet my house your wife would be no different lol. My wife of 34 years has thousands and thousands of miles in fl 350s and Pilots, more in 350s nearly as much as I do, we had them when they were brand new and she weighs in about 78 pounds wet and never NEEDED or had to have power steering to drive them but once with it on one she loved it and insisted on all of ours have it. Who am I to say no lol As she says it makes driving them that much more fun. You wont convince any that have driven with it or have had it put on that its a stupid addition or a waste to put it on. I don't push anyone to put it on or bend no ones arm when it comes to PS, I don't have to, the huge smile and oh my fing gods sell its self. yea its not a cheap addition but I know no one that says they wasted there money on it, in fact they say they would of paid double or triple lol In the end were all just enjoying the rides we enjoy!



Don't completely discount the valving on your WORKS shocks either, most all the 350s I have seen and owners I have talked to was 100% happy with the performance of the WORKS shocks on the 350, WORKS seem to do a really good job dialing in the 350 the Pilot how ever I can not say the same thing I have found very few who installed WORKS on the Pilot and liked them, Lightspeed bought 4 WORKS for his Pilot and ended up sending them back 3 times before they got them valved where they actually 'worked' he called works after the 3rd time told them to remember his settings as a baseline and throw out their past baseline settings, it was recommended many times after that when someone ordered WORKS for the Pilot ask WORKS to use the 'Lightspeed' baseline settings many were happy happy. Its been so many years since I have seen someone order WORKS for a Pilot no clue how they are shipping them many has gravitated to the FOX Air their for a while especially after WORKS new shock prices and repair prices went through the roof. Bottom line perhaps the shocks on your 350 were not valved correctly or were ordered wrong?

don't forget to buy Powerball tickets for tonight!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I bought 1 ticket and lost my tail lol. In all honesty the 350 was not to bad, we did bottom it out a couple of times, you can seee where the axle just kisses the FUEL TANK!!! One thing is forsure the axle or should say wheel goes up higher on the 350 than it does on a stock pilot or atv racing pilot. I was messin around last night and used Vw alternator shims to shim the axles and now everything is tight the way I think it should be. It took 2 shims for each side on the trans side. I tried 3 but could not get the bolts to go in. Another area that Vw pully shims work good on is a lose front end on a 350. I don't have to do it to this one but if any want shims to fit perfect on the rear axle splines on the trans Vw shims work perfect for that! and the front end. Got my 94c in the mail yesterday and rear driven clutch today. Oddatv in New york I recommend to everyone, free shipping and 2 day delivery to California. He sells all kinds of 350 and pilot parts, he is also on e bay. I will buy from him again when I need something AAA++


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
I bought 1 ticket and lost my tail lol. In all honesty the 350 was not to bad, we did bottom it out a couple of times, you can seee where the axle just kisses the FUEL TANK!!! One thing is forsure the axle or should say wheel goes up higher on the 350 than it does on a stock pilot or atv racing pilot. I was messin around last night and used Vw alternator shims to shim the axles and now everything is tight the way I think it should be. It took 2 shims for each side on the trans side. I tried 3 but could not get the bolts to go in. Another area that Vw pully shims work good on is a lose front end on a 350. I don't have to do it to this one but if any want shims to fit perfect on the rear axle splines on the trans Vw shims work perfect for that! and the front end. Got my 94c in the mail yesterday and rear driven clutch today. Oddatv in New york I recommend to everyone, free shipping and 2 day delivery to California. He sells all kinds of 350 and pilot parts, he is also on e bay. I will buy from him again when I need something AAA++



Is everything suppose to be tight in that area of the axles, now that it is tight is it beating the bearings up in the trans? I thought the 3rd link on the FL350 rear suspension was the axle and the suspension cycles it was trying to pull the axle apart (pulls out on the axle like its trying to stretch it) and this was why most the aftermarket ujoints failed.

I remember reading some place years ago that if you order a rear shock with a longer shaft you can get more travel out of the rear suspension wonder if that's why your hitting the tank?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Posts: 550
I cycled it after shimming it and everything moves freely, I don't think(could be wrong) that the axle should be moving back and forth on the splines!>> As far as travel that is where to 350 is so wierd, if you eliminate the wheel going down the last inch or so the wheel stays pretty straight. The last 1 to 1.5 inches going down the wheel lays in A LOT. Mine going up will touch the bottom of the tank with the axle. I don't have any idea if these shocks are stock length or not or if the wheel is dropping farther than honda designed.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Dave-Co wrote:
I cycled it after shimming it and everything moves freely, I don't think(could be wrong) that the axle should be moving back and forth on the splines!>> As far as travel that is where to 350 is so wierd, if you eliminate the wheel going down the last inch or so the wheel stays pretty straight. The last 1 to 1.5 inches going down the wheel lays in A LOT. Mine going up will touch the bottom of the tank with the axle. I don't have any idea if these shocks are stock length or not or if the wheel is dropping farther than honda designed.


I don't know man. That axel should not hit the tank. Something is wrong. I have the stock shocks on my machine and have hit some bumps real hard. So hard I could feel my insides move. It actually hurt and my axel did not hit the tank. My brothers machine has rear shocks that are 1/2" shorrter than stock and his axel don't hit.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
canadian oddy wrote:
Dave-Co wrote:
I cycled it after shimming it and everything moves freely, I don't think(could be wrong) that the axle should be moving back and forth on the splines!>> As far as travel that is where to 350 is so wierd, if you eliminate the wheel going down the last inch or so the wheel stays pretty straight. The last 1 to 1.5 inches going down the wheel lays in A LOT. Mine going up will touch the bottom of the tank with the axle. I don't have any idea if these shocks are stock length or not or if the wheel is dropping farther than honda designed.


I don't know man. That axel should not hit the tank. Something is wrong. I have the stock shocks on my machine and have hit some bumps real hard. So hard I could feel my insides move. It actually hurt and my axel did not hit the tank. My brothers machine has rear shocks that are 1/2" shorrter than stock and his axel don't hit.


I have rubbed the tank guard with the axle on our 350's with the Works shocks. With the stock shocks you could jump off a cliff and the shock still wont compress enough to even come close. :shock:


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