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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:33 am 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
got the clutch off today went down to fastenal to get a 3/4"-16 x 6" all they had was one that had 2" of thread on the end they said they could order a 6" one fully threaded but it was $40 for one.... wth. so i took the one they had for 7$ wrapped plumbers tape on the threads and filled the hole with oil and cranked down the bolt. wow that thing popped off with some force almost cracked me in the head flew straight up about a foot and came back down. lol

anyways i took the case off and found what looks like the spring from one of the seals in pieces inside? anyone have any insight on this?

haven't gotten to the seals since i need to now figure out how to get the gears off.

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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Yep, seen that before. Perhaps someone may have either...

[A] installed the oil seal too deep
[B] wrong oil seal (too thick)

In either case the seal would be pushed against the bearing, or tweaked.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Sounds about right I will know more once I figure out how to get the gears out\ get a 41mm wrench or socket And see what the seals look like.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
bl1tzkr13g wrote:
Sounds about right I will know more once I figure out how to get the gears out\ get a 41mm wrench or socket And see what the seals look like.


No need for a socket! I found a cheap alternative. Check this out.......

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15265

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
bl1tzkr13g wrote:
got the clutch off today went down to fastenal to get a 3/4"-16 x 6" all they had was one that had 2" of thread on the end they said they could order a 6" one fully threaded but it was $40 for one.... wth. so i took the one they had for 7$ wrapped plumbers tape on the threads and filled the hole with oil and cranked down the bolt. wow that thing popped off with some force almost cracked me in the head flew straight up about a foot and came back down. lol

anyways i took the case off and found what looks like the spring from one of the seals in pieces inside? anyone have any insight on this?

haven't gotten to the seals since i need to now figure out how to get the gears off.

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Image


You don't appear to have a clamp on that vacuum hose. Do you trust that ??


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Slid it up to clamp a bolt I have in The other end of the hose while the engines apart. Also that hose is such a tight fit on there i would have to cut it off.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
bl1tzkr13g wrote:
Slid it up to clamp a bolt I have in The other end of the hose while the engines apart. Also that hose is such a tight fit on there i would have to cut it off.


Be aware that's not only a vacuum, but if pushes a pressure pulse also!

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Randman wrote:
bl1tzkr13g wrote:
Sounds about right I will know more once I figure out how to get the gears out\ get a 41mm wrench or socket And see what the seals look like.


No need for a socket! I found a cheap alternative. Check this out.......

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15265

Rand



I saw that post and posted in it with a wrench i found of the same size, I do however like hosers welded socket and being able to get it off with a impact and not fight it with a universal holder and a wrench seems like it would piss me off and i would want to take a hammer to the wrench to get it loose lol... so i ordered a 41mm socket off of evilbay for 13$ should have it here next week then i'll have someone cut it and weld one i already have to it!


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:35 am 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Got my 41mm socket now I need to figure out how I'm gonna go about extending it need to make it so it slides over the crank was thinking about using a drill press to drill out enough area so it slides of the shaft or a small Dremel to grind out the inner ring

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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Happy birthday to me. Just got back and found all my packages at home
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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
What drive is your socket mine was a 3/4" drive so I welded another socket on it to make it longer as seen here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10362

This guy cut his off and welded on a socket. viewtopic.php?t=10357


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
Hey hoser mine is a 1 inch drive the shaft goes to about the bottom of that indented ring around the socket so I'm thinking about just removing some of that inner area in the first pic to allow the shaft in then just stick a 1 inch extension in it and weld it in place.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
so i got the gears off and found the spring was eaten up, is there not suppose to be a seal for the Balancer weight?
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Also Randman don't gloat but i ended up going to oreillys and getting the lisel wrench lol i didnt have the time to have someone modify that socket for me. also here is a video of my piston and cylinder it looks like there is alot more clearance on one side than the other will have to take it to someone to get measured as i don't have the means of doing it.
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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Don't worry, I won't gloat too much. I bought the wrench because I didn't have any way of modifying a socket either.

The one side that didn't have a seal, isn't supposed to have a seal. The open part of the bearing allows oil to flow into the balancer cavity and that's what keeps the bearings lubricated on both ends.

It looks like the seal tensioning spring let go and tried to wind itself around the crank.

You can easily check the piston to cylinder clearance by using a feeler gauge.

1.) Remove the cylinder from the bottom end.
2.) Remove the piston from the connecting rod.
3.) Flip the cylinder over on it's top.
4.) Insert the piston back into the cylinder just as it would be if it was installed previously (exhaust side has an arrow).
5.) Measure the piston to cylinder clearance by sticking a feeler gauge between the wall of the cylinder and the piston. Do this on the exhaust and intake side. This is where you will get most of your piston and cylinder wear.

Note: The piston itself is tapered meaning its wider at the bottom than it is at the top. The critical measurement should be taken at the bottom of the piston skirt with the crown of the piston stopped at the top of the cylinder.

How did the wrench work for you?

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
I honestly thought the wrench would be a pain in the ass but the nut came off pretty easy. The bolt however on the Balancer was a PITA had to use a ratchet and a long bar to get leverage on it. I will also say that i went with what another person on this site advised and bought a motion pro gearjammer worked well. In the Oddatv seal package its comes with 3 seals perhaps i'm dumb for asking but then where does the smallest seal go? the one on left is the balancer side and the one on the right is the Stator side right?
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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Yep!

Big seal on the gear box side of the crank,

Medium size in the stator side of the crank,

Smallest seal goes into the outer balancer cover.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:10 am 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
ok idk why but i was thinking the balancer cover seal was bigger than that. guess i should of checked first. thanks Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
I might have the two smaller seals mixed up but they only go in one way!

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
The more I look at it I think I am wrong, the smallest seal is the stator side seal. The medium seal is the one for the balancer cover seal that rides on the crank just behind the clutch.

It's been a a few months since I did my last bottom end..... and I have slept since then. It's a bitch getting old!

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
put the Engine back together and put in the new seals. at 6psi the balancer/clutch side crank seal leaks out air around the shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
How did you drive the seal in? Is it crooked?

Did you drive the seal in too far? Did you drive it in far enough?

Did you have the Retainer nut torqued down when you checked for leaks?

The balancer side seal can be a tricky installation. I have ruined one before trying to install it.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 1:40 am
Posts: 117
Location: Riverside Ca
put some 2 stroke oil on the outside of the seal and some white lithium grease on the inside between the 2 lips. pushed it down starting from one side and worked my way around as far as i could get it to go. tapped it down in the same method. put it at about flush with the outside edge to the case was leaking so moved it further down to where its now just passed the inside edge of the crankshaft. probably f'd it up as i couldn't get it to go straight down all at once and had to get one side then the other down... also i didn't put on the gear and the nut. anyway to remove the seal without putting a screw in it? Any post on the forum with proper installation method/instructions. the service manual is kinda vague.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Put the gear and nut on then try again. The nut and gear hold the metal band with the O ring seal in place. Without doing that, the air pressure will force the band with the O ring out of place. Without doing this, it will leak.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
What was the condition of the shaft where the leaky seal rides? If there is any roughness, you will find a leak now or soon. I have a crank that is junk because of pitting on one of the seal's sealing surfaces on the crank shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: BL1TZ's Odyssey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
bl1tzkr13g wrote:
...also here is a video of my piston and cylinder it looks like there is alot more clearance on one side than the other will have to take it to someone to get measured as i don't have the means of doing it.
Image


Are you sure the rings are seated correctly, as in the ring gap is over the prong? Sometimes rings can slip/spin when your installing. Ring isn't stuck or sticky on one side? Other than the piston just sitting in there freely, just wondering what would cause that appearance.


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