Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png PilotOdyssey.com V2.0   
It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:42 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
I wanted to share a small project of mine with you all that's unrelated to my electric pilot build. I've been making some parts for a 10-hp custom built go kart similar in size to the Pilot. Generally, most of the parts are custom built and being contributed by some others. The parts I've been contributing are custom wheel hubs and brake rotors for both the front and rear of the vehicle.

The front hubs are basically the same footprint as a 08 TRX 450R front hub (4/144 pattern), but with 4 rotor bolts instead of 3. The material is 7075 aluminum.
Image
Image

The rear hubs are basically the same footprint as an 08 Foreman 500 front hub (4/110 pattern), with the exception being that no rotor mounts exist. A single rotor is mounted to the gearbox size of the axle.
Image

The rear hub uses 2 pieces. The outer part is 7075 aluminum, and the insert is 4340 steel. The steel insert has exterior star lobes in it to prevent slipping. Splines will be cut into the interior bore of the insert via EDM.
Image

The rear rotor can be seen below. Both rotors will be cut out of .125 4340 steel via waterjetting. Sandblasting and surface grinding to follow.
Image

Here's some exploded views of how everything goes together:
Image
Image

Some of the finite element analysis photos:

Below is looking at the effects of a side impact, such as a curb:
Image

Same thing, different hub:
Image

Here's one of the insert with a case for a torque load of 700 ft-lbs:
Image

More of torque cases for the rotors (Should say 700 ft-lbs not 500):
Image
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Here's where the fun starts:
Prepping the stock pieces:
Image
Image

Started on the first front hub:
Image
Image

Getting closer. The part is still square at the end of the cnc cycle, as boring will be performed on the top bearing hole. Afterwards, the four block corners will be cut off with the bansaw, and the part will be placed on the lathe to finish the backside up and bore the other bearing hole.
Image

Boring the top hole:
Image

Here's the current state. Need to finish the backside up still.
Image


Getting started on the rear hubs. First the backside pocket was milled out.
Image

Moved the part to the lathe to create the surface profile:
Image
Image

Milling the pockets and star lobes:
Image

The final step will be cutting out the plus sign while the part is bolted to a jig plate. Here's a screenshot from Mastercam:
Image

Because the wheel studs have a unique press hole diameter (13/32"), I made some custom shoulder bolts to make a close fit. I meant to make 4 bolts, but only got around to making 3.
Image
Image
Image

Part bolted to jig:
Image

Finished:
Image
Image


Rotors water jetted and sand blasted:
Image

Hope you all enjoy this. I'll post more pictures as I get closer.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:45 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 778
Wow!
Nice work:()

Are you thinking about making hubs and rotors for the pilot or odyssey?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2657
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Nice work..cad, FEA and machining.

Is this a class project or something?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Pilot bird wrote:
Wow!
Nice work:()

Are you thinking about making hubs and rotors for the pilot or odyssey?



Seeing how these hubs have a similar bolt pattern to what's used on the pilot, I'm considering making a set of front hubs for the pilot. I'd like to see an option for a disk brake setup that didn't require cutting the stock spindles or changing rims or knuckles.

I'm not sure how custom rotors could be beneficial for the pilot or odyssey, unless parts are getting hard to get.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Nice work..cad, FEA and machining.

Is this a class project or something?


I'm doing this with a couple others for the SAE Baja design build challenge. Here's a picture of last years build:

Image

While they aren't as fun to ride as a pilot due to being only 10 hp, building the parts is a lot of fun.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Here's an update on the progress:

Cut off the corners with a bansaw
Image

Machined some lathe jaws to better hold the part:
Image

Lathed down the backside of the hub:
Image

Finished boring the holes, and here's the part ready to get anodized:
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
So today I started on the inserts for the rear hubs. These are made of 4340 steel and will be pressed into the rear hub with the matching lobe pattern. The axle will slide into the middle of the insert.

Image

Stock piece ready to be put on the mill to cut the lobe pattern out
Image
Image

Finished piece:
Image


All four pieces finished. These parts are ready to be shipped off to get the internal splines cut into the shaft via EDM so they mate up to the Honda foreman CVs being used.
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2657
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Any idea on how much the EDM costs?

Would be nice to see what it'd cost to build a set of axle adapters for the stock FL350 box. Would have internal Honda-25-spline, 2 holes for the axle retention, and then perhaps a type-2 VW axle (or some other popular/cheap CV). Its basically what Methodical and I have been playing with recently. Also wonder what EDM costs vs. what jknarfal had done with the shaper (?) on his alternative output shaft.

Would be slick to have an adapter like this...
Attachment:
fghfghfghfghfghfgh.jpg
fghfghfghfghfghfgh.jpg [ 28.66 KiB | Viewed 1496 times ]



Or even one like this where you'd use the stock Honda Oddy/ATC rear wheel hub (with retention bolt holes added) and then use an adapter plate like this...
Attachment:
1644.jpg
1644.jpg [ 55.47 KiB | Viewed 1496 times ]


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Finally got the hubs back from being anodized. Gold was selected as the color scheme of the vehicle is black and gold. The front hubs are ready to have the bearings, seals, and studs pressed in. Once I get the inserts back from wire edm, those will be assembled as well.

Here's how the front hubs turned out:
Image

and the rear hubs:
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Any idea on how much the EDM costs?

Would be nice to see what it'd cost to build a set of axle adapters for the stock FL350 box. Would have internal Honda-25-spline, 2 holes for the axle retention, and then perhaps a type-2 VW axle (or some other popular/cheap CV). Its basically what Methodical and I have been playing with recently. Also wonder what EDM costs vs. what jknarfal had done with the shaper (?) on his alternative output shaft.

Would be slick to have an adapter like this...
Attachment:
fghfghfghfghfghfgh.jpg



Or even one like this where you'd use the stock Honda Oddy/ATC rear wheel hub (with retention bolt holes added) and then use an adapter plate like this...
Attachment:
1644.jpg


From what I've been researching, EDM cost depends a lot on setup and machine time. EDM in generally is very slow and speed is measured in square inches per hour (accounting for depth of cut). Some people quote by the amount of area needed to be cut, so that's the total distance traveled by the wire times the depth of the cut. So cutting the external profile of large gears is going to cost much more compared to tiny gears. If you can provide the shop with the spline specs, or the mating shaft and center distance, they can be up and running the machine in short order. Other than for tiny gears, a shaper will probably overtake the wire machine by the 2nd or 3rd part. Unfortunately, Honda seems to use non standard splines, such as a 37.5 pressure angle on the CV shafts below.

From machinist forums, I found that depending on the machine, you're looking at about 0.075" per minute (newer machines may go 3-4 times as fast). So you can probably get a rough idea of cost incurred due to machine time based on the speed, the total area to cut for both roughing and finish passes, and $80.00 per hour. Factor in setup and programming time on top of that.

In addition to those four inserts, three spool gears were sent to have internal splines cut to meet up against a Can-Am shaft (the axles use a custom length shaft in addition to the inboard Can-Am and outboard Foreman 450 CV's). So for a total of 7 items with 2 different setups (both CV's have the same spline data), the value was a few hundred dollars.

That first adapter would be relatively easy to do (assuming you were only doing the splines), and for a set of 2, I'd imagine you would come in around a fraction of that cost. If you were mass producing them, I'd imagine investing in a custom broach would be nice.

I'm not quite sure how the second adapter would be used. Could you explain a little more?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Pressed some bearings, seals, and studs into one of the front hubs today. This hub is ready to be mounted.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Here's how the rotors turned out: The front rotor is on the left while the rear rotor is on the right.
Image

I finally had more time to finish up the remaining front hubs. Also, seen in this photo is one of the front rotors I made.
Image

After receiving the inserts back from wireEDM, I finished pressing the studs and inserts into the rear hub. Here's how it turned out:

Image
Image

Here's a comparison of the Honda foreman hub with the hub I created:
Image

Here's all the hubs together:
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2657
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Very nice!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
I was able to get the rotors blanchard ground. The front hub fits like a glove. The calipers used are Wilwood PS1 calipers.
Image

Here's the rear hubs in their final mounting setup. In the background are CVtech clutches and a clear cover built by a friend.
Image

Chassis nearly completed:
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
So what became of this project ??


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 330
Location: Pennsylvania
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Any idea on how much the EDM costs?

Would be nice to see what it'd cost to build a set of axle adapters for the stock FL350 box. Would have internal Honda-25-spline, 2 holes for the axle retention, and then perhaps a type-2 VW axle (or some other popular/cheap CV). Its basically what Methodical and I have been playing with recently. Also wonder what EDM costs vs. what jknarfal had done with the shaper (?) on his alternative output shaft.

Would be slick to have an adapter like this...
Attachment:
fghfghfghfghfghfgh.jpg



Or even one like this where you'd use the stock Honda Oddy/ATC rear wheel hub (with retention bolt holes added) and then use an adapter plate like this...
Attachment:
1644.jpg


I love this! Man I need to convert my mill to CNC... Anyway, I'm still working on the FL350 output shaft adapters. The plan is exactly as Dmoney said, internal Honda splines, 2 cross bolts for retention and the ability to be used with different CV's. I don't recall seeing what you paid for the EDM process, what approximately did it end up costing. I'm weighing my options. I may move forward with having a couple custom pull broaches made, seems to be the most efficient choice for spline many sets..

From discussing the splining process with jknarfal, doing it manually is way to resource intensive.. I must say though, I thoroughly enjoy reading these SAE projects. The creativity and scientific/engineering thoughts that go into theses builds is spectacular..


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
We traveled out to Lebec, California for the competition. The competition mainly focused on a 4 four endurance race, but there were some some side events, such as a hill climb, maneuverability, and acceleration. My hubs and rotors performed pretty well. We were 25th out of 100 teams through the majority of the race, but a damaged brake line (rock) and consequential rollover gave us a delay. We finished 36th. Overall it was a lot of fun. Here are some photos:

Overview of the track:
Image

Look at all the flags:
Image

Lining up for tech inspection:
Image

Gridding for the race:
Image

All the Big 10 teams (Left to Right: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Purdue (us), Wisconsin. Illinois did not make the picture):
Image

Here's a video of the maneuverability course I created:

Link in case above doesn't work: https://youtu.be/z-zOwrTPlO0


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Of course, that wasn't the only competition we traveled to. Here are two others earlier in the year:

Midnight Mayhem (Louisville, KY):

We took builds from previous years down to Louisville to race under the lights during October 2015. Rain leading up to the race made it very muddy.
Image
Image
Image

Blizzard Baja (Houghton, MI):

Similar to above, but in single digit temperatures during February 2016. The entire course was built out of packed snow.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That's cool. Congrats on even finishing, it's about engineering, honest competition and friendships.
If engineering was the only factor I would give you the win hands down based on the pics I have seen here.
I noticed flags from other countries in one of the pictures. How many if any foreign teams ?? Any idea how they made out ??


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Indianapolis, IN
canadian oddy wrote:
That's cool. Congrats on even finishing, it's about engineering, honest competition and friendships.
If engineering was the only factor I would give you the win hands down based on the pics I have seen here.
I noticed flags from other countries in one of the pictures. How many if any foreign teams ?? Any idea how they made out ??


Thanks! There were several foreign teams there. I remember seeing teams from Canada, Mexico, India, China, South Korea, Puerto Rico, and United Arab Emirates. Several teams from Mexico and Canada were able to simply drive to the event, but teams like South Korea and India actually had to ship their vehicle in a crate overseas.

If you are curious about results for all the teams, they can be found here: http://students.sae.org/cds/bajasae/results/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], bullnerd, DC, dipnadactyl, Google [Bot], jknarfal, Pilot bird, rarerat, rmesser, toby, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group