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 Post subject: New Project - for review
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:10 pm
Posts: 15
What I have now: I have 2 odysseys, one already has a Yamaha 600 vmax snowmobile Engine mounted with the stock trans but much larger axles & U-joints cobbled on to the stock axle ends. It runs and drives but has been sitting for a long time and needs some love. The other Odyssey, I'm trying to get the stock motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) going but it is just not cooperating and refuses to fire.

I read most every thread here and am in the process of employing everything I read here, solving this issue is not why I posted this thread so please no comments about that, I know where all the threads are and don't want to replicate questions already asked and answered, thanks.

The proposed mods, bought a running complete 521 rotax motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) for that one. I'm thinking of a different way to accomplish having a bullet proof axle setup.

This is the part I would like people here to review. The collective brain power on this forum is vast so I want those smart people to critically review this idea before I actually start on it.

I am going to get a Subaru dif and mount it running forward and back like it was in the Subaru.

Then I can easily use the Subaru CV axles but with Polaris RZR xp1000 outer CV's knuckles and hubs that I already bought of fleabay. Before anybody reminds me yes I realize most Subaru diffs are open, most of them are not LSD unless you grab one from a WRX STI.

I can weld the spider gears or buy a LSD for it but will worry about that later after this thing drives. Looking at those lunchbox style posi units and might even try making my own using spider gears and spacers. Found a guy online who did that and it works.

Engine mounting, I will turn the rotax motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) side ways with the drive clutch at the back of the odyssey and mount a snowmobile driven clutch on its original jack shaft with the other end running up parallel with the Subaru differential. Then use a chain and sprocket on the end of the jack shaft and the Subaru differential.

The rotax motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) will be mounted above the differential basically right on top of it but with some left hand offset so I can mount the driven clutch and snowmobile jack shaft but down lower above & to the right side of the Subaru diff.

This way the exhaust will come out on the left side and the carbs will be on the right side. This should make mounting the exhaust a bit more easy as it wont be coming out of the Engine right into the back of the seat. But.. I'll have that large expansion chamber to deal with so I will probably have to loop the exhaust forward then up and back/across to try and get it mounted without having the huge thing hanging off the rear outside the roll cage [funky].

I will look into building a small reverse setup later kind of like the rather be welding guy showed on his you tube channel but I am going to use gears from a QC stock car style rear end. The goal is to solve the axle situation and not be breaking axles when I hammer this thing. This will require custom axles with Subaru CV's on one end and Polaris CV's on the other end so that will not be an "off the shelf" axle you can buy but welding it all together will be pretty easy. I'm a machinist and welder/fabricator.

I'll buy all the axles, cut them up turn them down on a lathe, press them together with a sleeve and weld them up. I wanted to ride this Odyssey this summer but all this is easily a winters worth of work off and on. That sucks. My son is gonna be pissed if I don't have this thing ready to ride this summer. So this build will probably happen this fall and winter.

I'm going to use a 3.90 legacy differential because I know where to get one for 60 bucks. Hope I can make up the difference in final drive ratio with drive sprockets. If not I will address that when I build the reverse box.

If I use QC gears I can hopefully make it so I can change out the gears for different ratios just like in the stockcar type QC rear end. Remove end/side plate, slide 2 gears off, slide new different ratio gears on, bolt on the cover, fill with oil, done.

Comments: Any of you smart backyard engineers have comments let me know. I don't want to get this 3/4 done and figure out.. OH SH*T this is not gonna work for some reason I did not think of.

If you cant quite get your head wrapped around what I'm talking about here, check this out >> https://youtu.be/Do0364OjPdg?t=220

That link is to "4x4 CROSSKART Build!" by CRACKED HOUSING FAB. I thought of this before seeing their project, then found them when searching for Subaru diff sprocket setup on google. Just saying...hehe..

They are building a motorcycle Engine cross kart with 4wd and using the Subaru diff the same way I am going to.

So rip into this idea with what ever you think of, your not gonna hurt my feelings. I'd much rather have some one here think of a reason this should not be done or will not work before I get into it deep, though I'm already into the Odysseys and bought two trx450 front suspensions and enough Polaris RZR XP1000 rear knuckles/hubs to do long travel rear suspensions on both of our Odysseys. So all that is going to happen.

You guys may even know of some one who has already done this, there seems to be nothing new only things you do not yet know about when it comes to these Odysseys.

I, like so many here am trying to figure out a bullet proof CV axle solution and since I am a machinist putting the Subaru and Polaris CV axles together is not going to be vary difficult for me.

I am a fan of the Grindhard plumbing Odyssey build on you tube. Those guys are some times a bit sketchy and have to rebuild things they do but in the end after doing tons of mods their 130hp Odyssey rips.

Seen all the other builds on here also, hats off to all of you.

So, do you think this Subaru differential/axle mod is a workable idea or not?

Thanks, Robert

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
Seems like you have really thought this over.

One time I thought of a similar concept using a Subaru rear diff. The difference on my idea was a wanted to have a street bike Engine and chain driven, sprocket to sprocket. Put a sprocket on the diff. At the end of the day it was just an idea for me and more work than I was willing to invest.

The toughest thing with these is fitting 10lb of shit in a 5lb bag. Not much room back there and I personally don’t like the stretched frames.

If the I intent is for bullet proof drivetrain, I would consider a RPM gearbox with the 930cv, and call it a day. These will hold up to 400hp.

My 2cents

Cheers, Curtis


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
Post some photos of what your working with.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
you may want to check out minibuggy forum


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:10 pm
Posts: 15
CurtisR401 wrote:
Seems like you have really thought this over.

One time I thought of a similar concept using a Subaru rear diff. The difference on my idea was a wanted to have a street bike Engine and chain driven, sprocket to sprocket. Put a sprocket on the diff. At the end of the day it was just an idea for me and more work than I was willing to invest.

The toughest thing with these is fitting 10lb of shit in a 5lb bag. Not much room back there and I personally don’t like the stretched frames.

If the I intent is for bullet proof drivetrain, I would consider a RPM gearbox with the 930cv, and call it a day. These will hold up to 400hp.

My 2cents

Cheers, Curtis


Yes I will put a sprocket on the diff but driven from a jack shaft with the snowmobile driven clutch on the other end.

As for extending or stretching the odyssey frame I look at it like this, if I am going to stuff 3 times the power into it, stretching the frame is actually a good idea. Yes it will be outside of the original parameters of the odyssey but since it no longer is in the 30 hp range but now at 90 to 120 plus hp stability becomes an issue were it was not much of an issue with 30 hp.

So, yes I am willing to widen the wheel base and and stretch the frame to accommodate my mods and handle the power it will have. I view the original Odyssey as simply a starting point for upgrades.

The RPM gearboxes are super cool but not building 20k buggies here just, just a bunch of DIY tech I can make in my shop with welders benders lathes and mills. Total DIY not high buck stuff like the RPM box.

I think I can actually build my own gearbox some day with reverse using vary simple methods [steel case] and using quick change stock car rear end gears that are about 30 to 50 bucks for a set. Cool thing about that is I can easily change the final drive ratio by simply swapping gears.

Not doing a custom gearbox right away though so if I actually do build one I'll post it up here probably in a dedicated thread about that. For now I just want easy and tough, so probably go with the Subaru rear end and no reverse just to get it done and driving.

I really like the idea of the Subaru rear end just because it is different and I can not find any one on here that has done it. In the end it will ether work out or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
I look forward to seeing your progress. Please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
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Location: Rhode Island
I look forward to seeing your progress. Please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:10 pm
Posts: 15
Does anyone know for sure what the stock Odyssey trans ratio is? One post I seen 8 to 1 and another post I seen 9 to 1 on this board?

I guess the best way to figure that out is go out to the shop and check the stock odyssey.

Update: checked my stock odyssey and got 10 turns of the driven clutch to one turn on the output shaft of the trans. Interesting...

I am finding Subaru diffs that are 3.90 4.11 and 4.44.

Probably best to try and grab a 4.44 version if possible.

If I use a 15t drive sprocket on my jack shaft and a 34t driven sprocket on my diff I will have 10.06 ratio.

This is not counting the reduction from the drive clutch to the driven clutch from the snowmobile. I think that is around 3 to 1 from reading post here about people using rotax engines and the drive and driven clutch that comes with them on most snowmobiles.

I need to find out what diameter a 630 34 tooth sprocket is. probably too big but I will check.

I know the rear tire diameter will be the final factor on over all drive ratio but those are what they are.

I figure around 27" or so on the rear tire height that roughly equals about 84" diameter to calculate over all final drive ratio. That is what my odyssey with the Yamaha snowmobile motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) has.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 15
Looks like this has been done on a Honda Pilot.

Link >> http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3744

YouTube video >> https://youtu.be/mZVvNI8lCaw

I do not see anything in the build thread about reverse but in the video the guy hits a berm and it appears he reverses away but he bent his front suspension and can not drive away afterwords.

Figured out how he did reverse:

His Engine has RER, or "Rotax Electronic Reverse" which means the Engine runs in reverse when required, so he does not need a reverse gearbox. What? I guess I need to start looking for one of those.... I can only imagine what that Engine will cost but I can look into it.

I actually found a mention of this buggy built with a Subaru diff on minibuggy dot net while doing research on Subaru diffs and if anyone used one. Found a long thread on there with few photos, it was not a build thread. I did a google search and found the thread here.

Link >> https://www.minibuggy.net/forum/hondas-pilot-odyssey/5844-800-rotax-subaru-diff-into-pilot.html

So the idea seems to be valid. That helps so I will not worry about spending the $$ as it should all work out.

I'm actually really excited to find out about this build. I need more details but using a Subaru diff will make it so much more easy to build a reliable high HP long travel suspension Odyssey with a tough drive system using easy to find parts [Subaru and Polaris].

My local u-pull wrecking yard [40 miles away] sells diffs for 60 bucks and axles for 25 ea. Seems Subaru foresters are the most prevalent but are harder to find with the 4.44 ratio. The Subaru legacy some times has the 4.44 ratio available with viscus LSD and there is one at my local u-pull yard. I just need to get down there soon and see if the car still has the rear diff, check to see if it is a 4.44 and if it still has rear axles. Actually I would prefer the ether the open diff [easy to make a home made locker] or the one with a torsen LSD. Those are said to work well in sand.

I have found a web page with Subaru diff code guide and also found a person who made a PDF file with the common Subaru R160 diff with almost every possible measurement provided, this is vary cool. After finding that I printed it and took a tape measure and started checking my odysseys for Subaru diff fit. I may be able to fit the diff between the lower rear support tubes with minor cutting for clearance and new brackets.

Subaru diff code guide link >>> https://www.ignitionoffroadblog.com/post/subaru-torq-locker-a-guide-before-you-buy This page is about a Subaru locker so Scroll down to find the list of Subaru differential codes.

Thread that has the PDF link on the last post >> https://www.minibuggy.net/forum/driveline/21411-subaru-r160-diff-dimensions.html

PDF file with Subaru R160 diff measurements link >> http://csl.forcefed4.com/roydean/locost/DIFF_R160.pdf

If that file every becomes unavailable contact me, I have it and can email it to you.

~


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:02 pm 
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Posts: 15
Parts score: Subaru 160 5 bolt Diff - 4.44 viscous limited slip 49 bucks with 10.00 core charge.

Found this diff in a 2004 Subaru outback at the local Fox u-pull wrecking yard.

I consider this the 3rd best Subaru diff available so yes it was a score, specially for 60 bucks and these go on ebay for 250.00 plus and with shipping would be well over 300.

#1. R180 diff 4.44 with torsen LSD Larger and strongest one available - 500 plus hp no problems on turbocharged WRX STI cars
#2. R160 diff 4.44 with torsen LSD standard size good up to 300 plus hp .
#3. R160 diff 4.44 with viscous LSD - this is what I bought, it can easily handle 300 hp so I will never break it with any Engine I put in the odyssey.

Not exactly sure how the viscous LSD is going to work in an off road or sand style car. It will no doubt be better then an open diff but not sure if these lock under power or stay open. Guess I'll find out. For sand it will probably be fine. For trail running not so sure, but this Odyssey build is going to be centered on faster sand style ripping not trail riding.

Engine/diff photos below are for size comparison not to show mounting position. I am going to center the diff in the Odyssey, then mount the Engine right on top of the diff but offset so I can then mount the jack shaft beside the Engine.

I am considering getting a chain gear case from a snowmobile and using that instead of motorcycle style sprockets. I am finding a few on ebay but I will need the matching jack shaft and matching lower drive that the track rides on and will need to find one with a 2 to 1 ratio. Then I will cut off the track drive shaft end, put that on a flange that will fit the drive line flange on the Subaru diff.

BONUS... there are snowmobiles with reverse built into the chain case. These are kinda hard to find and expensive. What I will probably do is grab a cheaper chain case without reverse, those are typically under $100.00 that will work then plan to find one later that has reverse. I really to want this to be running and driving this summer so I'll need to get by without reverse at first.

Bonus #2. I could use the built in brake the snowmobile comes with, the caliper bolts right on the chain case and the disc fits into a machined section on the jack shaft.

I might do this right at first then ad outboard brakes later. I am pretty set on outboard brakes but who knows the snow machine brake might just work well and be good enough and this would be easy and pretty cheap, under 100.00. I really do want awesome brakes though.

Not using outboard brakes would allow me to use 12" Polaris quad type rims and then it would be super easy to get tires around 27" tall. If I use Polaris outboard disc and calipers I might have to go with 14" wheels and tires.

I see many gears [sprockets?] are available for the chain case on snowmobiles so maybe using larger rear tires such as 29 or 30" tall might work if I scrounge the smallest drive gear and the largest driven gear available for the chain case.

I will ad a chain case photo at the bottom for reference. This way you guys with no snow mobile experience can see what a "chain case" is, simply a enclosed chain/gearbox. This type of chain can handle a LOT of power so if I can get this to work it should really handle any Engine I could fit and last a long time with easily available replacement parts and bearings. Notice it is fully enclosed and the chain runs in an oil bath.

What chain of any type would not love running in an oil bath? haha...

Those CV axles will be cut and Polaris RZR XP1000 outer axle stubs will be welded on. I need to score some good used Polaris cv axles, looking for those right now.

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Engine diff and jack shaft arranged together for size reference below
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Engine diff and jack shaft arranged together for size reference below
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Snowmobile chain case without reverse below
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Snowmobile chain case with reverse below
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:55 pm 
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Posts: 15
Another face book market place score. yesterday. Odyssey number 3, though this one is only a frame.

$350, offered 300 and no dice. Dude had 2 other running odysseys and was parting this one because as it is rough, blown Engine and he don't need another one.

It has seen better days. Rusty though seems like surface rust and does not go all the way through.

Rear cross bar is cut out where upper seat belt mounts.

Factory rear shock mount bolts appears to be rusted & seized solid and cut off flush. I don't even want to think about how I will get those out.

Front suspension arm seized solid to the frame.

Will cut the front end off and extend the frame at least 12" in front, 6 inches in the middle and 4 to 6 inches in the rear.

Will cut off most all the factory brackets, send it off for sand blasting then prime it.

Shop is full, no room, so built a cart to stand it up on end so it takes up less space.

Will stash this for the next year and make it a winter project. This one will be an all out stretched modded long travel next level odyssey build.

My and my son's Odysseys will have trx450 front suspension. This one will be upgraded from that with Polaris RZR XP1000 based front suspension, though I will modify it and it will be only rear wheel drive. I will turn the Polaris front axles into hub inserts by cutting off the CV part and turning the axle stub into a hub retainer insert. This way my front and rear hubs will be the same and I can use Polaris 12" front rims with smaller tires. Rack and pinion steering with power assist if needed.

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Odyssey storage cart


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:10 pm 
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Posts: 15
Finished my temporary Engine mount today.

Idea behind it is to have a system where I can move the Engine front and back and side to side so I can determine the best mounting position with all the components, jack shaft, snowmobile chain case etc.

As of now, for testing the Engine will be mounted to the top of the diff. Later I may mount the jack shaft to the diff and make mounts for the Engine from the new lower tube frame members that run along side the diff, vary similer to the stock odyssey frame. Though the stock lower frame will be cut out due to it being to narrow to mount the diff down and in between. I will build a new lower frame wider then stock with provisions to fit the chain case. later I will make a lower skid plate guard to protect the chain case.

The Engine will be mounted on top and slightly to the left of the differential.

The position of the Engine in these photos is likely not in its final position due to the entire thing not being mounted in the frame yet and me not having the snowmobile chain case yet. Not totally sure I will be using the chain case but bought one and it is on the way. Will try to use it if possible but may need to expend the snowmobile jack shaft.

The lower square tube part under the diff is simply a stand to keep it stable and upright while setting on the table. That stand will be removed when I hang it in teh Odyssey frame.

The angle steel cross bars have holes in the top ends because I intend to hang the Engine and diff via threaded rod in the outboard holes with a cross bar on top of the rear tube going around the Engine area. This way I can fix the hanging mount in place then move the Engine front to rear and side to side to package everything up as tight as possible.

That will include the diff, the Engine, the clutches, the jack shaft and the chain case from the snowmobile. I plan on using the chain case if possible so the chain case size and length will control where exactly the jack shaft will go and thus how far the Engine is offset. I may need to extend or lengthen the snowmobile jack shaft so it goes from where the driven clutch needs to be to in front of the diff with a extension and flange mounted to the front diff drive flange.

That will be made from the lower drive shaft with cogs from the snowmobile. I will cut off the splinned part and press it into a flange then weld it. Then turn it down to fit the flange on the diff. The chain case has a oil seal and is filled with gear oil for the chain to run in.

Be a great way to go if I can get it to all work together. Found a chain case that has 19t top sprocket and 45t lower sprocket for 75.00 on ebay. This together with the 4.44 diff gears will equal or exceed the 10 to 1 ratio reduction the odyssey trans had.

That will be my starting point for gearing. I will install it all and test drive it to see how it works then adjust the chain case sprocket ratio up or down as needed. There are different sprockets available for snowmobile chain case ratio adjustments. from 19t up to 26t for the top sprocket and from 43t to 51t on the bottom sprocket.

My plan is to top out about 60mph and have neck snapping tire shredding acceleration on the bottom end. Rear tires will be from 27" tall to 30" + tall that are available oem on the Polaris RZR XP1000. 12" rims and 14" rims are available. 14" are preferable as with those I can run outboard rear brakes. I would ideally like to go with 30" rear tires and still have the 60 mph top end and acceleration I want. No doubt I will have to adjust the rpm engagement of the drive clutch. Later I will try to adapt a chain case with reverse but decided to not do that at first to simplify this conversion and see it running this summer... haha.

In most of the photos below the Engine is pretty high above the diff. After the photos where taken I adjusted the Engine height down as low as possible then put the jack shaft on to see how it looked. Lots of adjustment will be done before I figure out the final position needed for everything to be just right. That will have to take place after I hang the entire thing in the back of my sons odyssey and start trial fitting it in most every possible configuration.

Why is it ok to have the Engine mounted higher then the stock Engine? because I am increasing the track width of the rear suspension be a large amount. Having the Engine a bit higher will not kill the handling of the buggy due to the increased track width.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:57 am 
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Found out something pretty interesting about certain Polaris and Subaru CV axles.

They use virtually the same size ball race, at least the spline number and diameter are almost exactly the same.

Close enough to take a Polaris RZR XP1000 axle and slide on [with hammer] a 21 spline Subaru Ball Race.

Fit is good, I had to pound it on with a dead blow hammer.

There is only 1 issue that needs slight modification. On the Subaru axle there is a relief groove cut ahead of the splines.

On the Polaris axle the relief is cut into the Ball race.

This means the Subaru ball race will not slide all the way on far enough for the snap ring to go on.

Solution #1, cut a relief groove into the Polaris axle. this is the easy way.

Solution #2, cut a relief into the Subaru ball race like the Polaris ball race has. This is the hard way to do it as some how the Subaru ball race would need to be chucked up into a lathe or a rotary table on a mill. If I chose this method I would take the old Subaru axle, cut the 21 spline end off and turn the end down so the end just ahead of the splines was a smaller diameter and could be chucked up in a lathe chuck ether in a lathe or in a rotary table with a lathe chuck mounted on it, then placed on a mill table.

Next make s spacer that would allow the ball race to slide 70% of the way onto the splines then 2 clamps can be places on the outer rim of the ball race in such a way as to allow a mill with a boring bar, or a small grinding wheel to be lowered into the inside spline area and cut or grind out the relief the same way the Polaris ball race has it cut. Same thing could be done on a lathe. I would probably use the lathe and figure out a way to clamp the ball race securely then use a small grinding stone to cut the relief.

What will I do? Here is the issue to contend with and to base a decision on. These axles are probably heat treated and pretty hard so cutting that groove into the Polaris axle would get down below the surface heat treated zone and could cause the axle to break if the entire thing is not re-heat treated. or that could just be bunk and not needed. I am not sure.

Due to this possibility and the desire to leave that Polaris axle exactly as is, I will probably go through the trouble to grind the relief on the Subaru ball race as it is done on the Polaris ball race. I do not think this mod would reduce the strength of the Subaru ball race much if at all so this is the safe way to go.

What would you do? Well if you are not a machinist and have to send a part out to get modified the subaru ball race is small and could be shipped cheaply to some one who was setup to do this mod for you.

-----------------

What axle do I have and what do you need to buy?

The Polaris axle part of this is super easy, there are a few part numbers but they should all be the required 21 spline so it is pretty safe to find the correct part numbers and buy 2 axles.

Polaris axle part numbers that should work below.
1333944 - rear axle - uses a 3235777 center axle - outer cv joint is 3236155
1333439 - rear axle - uses a 3235777 center axle- outer cv joint is not 3236155 - this is the axle I bought. 10 bucks each haha beat that parts scrounger dudes.

Any Polaris RZR XP1000 axle that uses a 3235777 center axle, the part with 21 splines, should work. The 2 axles listed above even though the outer CV part is different should work. The used axles I found where from a 2016 RZR and are the 1333439 number, note this number is for the entire axle assembly. This is what you should search for, ether of these 2 part numbers will/should have the 21 spline center axle, that is what is listed in the axle assembly view where it shows each sub section with a different part number.

There may be other Polaris axles that have this same size 21 spline center axle and might be able to be used. Let say you do not want to increase your track width so much, you might find a shorter axle that has the 21 splines. I was not able to find any with simple part number cross reference type searches. I used a parts website called Partszilla and looked through their listings starting with these axle part numbers then searching for just the center axles and also the inner CV part numbers.

if any one finds a shorter CV axle that does use this same 21 spline with shorter center axle please post the info here, I suppose I could find some parts companies that supply HD Polaris axles and ask them. These would be on older XP700, 800 or 900 types and some of the utility type vehicles, not the more Performance type machines such as the RZR machines.

There could be shorter axles used on some of the larger Polaris quads with IRS rear suspension that use the 21 spline center axle. I have no way to find this out via part number cross reference. Some one would need to have an axle and take it apart. There is not much talk on the Polaris forums about these details, such as axle spline count and Ball race spline count etc.

Alternatively some one could do this setup then simply shorten and weld the axles together to get a shorter axle. I have heard it said that the Subaru inner CV allows for plenty of angle but I have not checked this yet. I suppose I could compare the used Subaru and Polaris axles and see what they look like side by side but so far they seem to be both pretty equal.

Now for the harder part

Subaru axle come in several types and the 21 spline axle are just one of them. The R160 diff and axles I have came from a 2004 Subaru outback, but, most any Subaru with the R160 diff should, or could have axles that would work. Research I have done says WRX cars with the R160 diff do come with 21 spline axles that should be the same as what I have.

I did find a company that does rebuild Subaru axles. Not sure if they could or would have and sell just the inner CV with all parts. I should probably ask them. If any one finds a source for new Subaru CV axle parts who would sell an entire 21 spline inner CV with internal parts, ball race, cage, balls snap rings etc please post it here. There are parts companies who sell rebuilt axles and some do use the OEM Subaru axles to rebuild and sell. Only way to know if you try to find a rebuilt Subaru axle is to go to the parts house and ask to see the axle then if it has the green inner CV joint, it could be a 21 spline axle. On the Subaru forums there are people who consider the 21 spline axle the weaker version when they are trying to get axle that handle a lot of power. Due to this these people may be willing to sell the 21 spline inner CV parts for cheap. You should not worry about these 21 spline axles and how strong they are as these people who consider them weak are running 300 hp and they are breaking them. Don't know about you but I am not planning on 300hp in my Odyssey. These 21 spline ball races should easily handle any snowmobile Engine with up to 200hp.

Cheap and easy source of axles

I suggest you go to a u-pull yard and find some Subaru cars that have the R160 diff and also have original axles, with these OEM axles the inner CV axle joint outside is painted green. Next pull the axle and disassemble the inner CV ball cup, wipe away as much grease as you can and count the axle/ball race splines. If the count is 21 on the splines this is the one you want.

Just so you know, you will need a HECK of a strong breaker bar with extension pipe, preferable 3/4 drive not 1/2 drive. I was just barely able to get the axle nut off on the Subaru outback I got my axles from using a snap-on 1/2 ratchet. I first tried a craftsman breaker bar and it would have broke if I pulled on it any harder. Tried the snap-on 1/2 ratchet with pipe extension and it worked.

In many U-pull yards they sell axles cheap but all you really need is the inner CV part along with the ball race, balls, cage and clips. In some u-pull yards they will sell you just this inner CV part for less. You can easily take the CV axle apart, remove what you need and toss the rest of it under the car and leave. I could have done that but I thought I was going to need to weld the 2 axle sections together so I paid 20.00 each for 2 complete axles. I could have paid 1/2 that if I had known.

Now for photos of all this, see below. I will label each photo above the photo, not below.

As always, question or comments are welcome. What do you think about the possibility of a super easy to build hybrid Polaris/Subaru "Franken-axle" that will make it easy to use the Subaru diff on the Odyssey?

Finally there is one thing here that I am now starting to wonder about??? Are these ball races similar enough so you could just leave the Polaris ball race on, shove it into the Subaru inner CV and it would work? I suppose I should measure the ball race ball groove and ball size? Who knows, might work and then it would simply be a matter of a 20 minute job to swap the Subaru inner CV on to the Polaris axle, the Subaru CV boot should work.... hmmm... How cool would that be?

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Photo below: Subaru axle on top - Polaris axle on bottom. Note the relief cut ahead of the Subaru splines. Next note the relief cut into the splines on the ball race on the lower Polaris axle. Due to these being different the Subaru ball race does not slide all the way on to the Polaris axle.
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This photo below shows the Polaris axle with the Subaru ball race in place. Note how it does not go far enough to allow the snap ring to be installed as I described above.
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Photo below: Subaru axle on top - Polaris axle on bottom - Subaru ball race on to Polaris axle and Polaris ball race on Subaru axle, Polaris ball race on Subaru axle is a tiny bit loose but that does not matter, the Subaru ball race on the Polaris axle DOES matter and with a slight modification this will be the axle that powers my Odyssey with the Subaru R160 diff. This is EPIC as now I do not need to weld 2 axles together to run the Subaru R160 diff.
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OK many of you are wondering just how I got this Subaru ball race on the Polaris axle and how much force it took. I shot a quick video to answer this question. Forgot to set the camera side ways but this is short just so you will know how this works. Note this is the 2nd time I put the Subaru ball race on the Polaris axle. I removed it by clamping the Polaris axle in a vice, with padding and used an aluminum block against the Subaru ball race and with some good soft hammer blows it came right off. Removed it 2 times and it came right off both times no problem with he same level of force.
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https://youtube.com/shorts/ijt-Pt4_J8U?feature=share
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:10 pm
Posts: 15
Skidoo chain case, lower cog drive shaft and jack shaft pics.

My chain case and lower cog wheel drive came in.

Here in these pics I am playing around with these parts and trying to determine if this chain case drive system will actually work.

Distance from upper to lower gear/sprocket in this chain case is only 7.4 inches. This is shorter then i had expected and would probably be better if it were a bit longer as with this I may net be able to have the driven clutch clear the differential. Or the Engine might need to be higher and off set more. The jack shaft may need to be extended so the driven clutch is fully behind the diff. This could mean I would need to extend the rear frame section 4 inches. Will not know until I hang the setup in the rear frame section.

I will be cutting off the splined end section of the lower cog drive shaft, turning it down and pressing it into a flange that will bolt on to the Subaru diff drive flange. After I press it I will weld it then true it up so there is as little run out as possible.

Note: if you want to do this pay particular attention to getting a cog drive shaft that has a seal surface that is in vary good condition. The one I got was claimed to be usable but the seal surface is pretty well worn. I am going to use it any way. If it leaks a few drops no problem. If it leaks a lot then I will make another one.

I tried fitting the shaft and chain case on both sides, carb side and exhaust aide. I would prefer to have the exhaust closer to the frame rail and keep the carbs farther away for the air cleaner/box so will probably go with the shaft on the carb side. Seems this is what the guy with the Honda pilot did. He then curled his exhaust back up and across his Engine compartment.

Carb side does cause an issue with the chain case dipstick hole being horizontal though so the oil will drain out unless I find some way to close up the dipstick hole. I will make a plug for the dip stick that has a threaded hole for a small pipe fitting. I could then attach a section of clear tube, mount the top up high with a breather/oil separator and then mark the line for proper oil level and it would be easy to simply look at the clear tube to see if oil level was good.

I may need to find a chain case that is a good bit longer then the one I bought. or simply use a regular motorcycle type chain and mount the shaft where it needs to go, far enough out to clear the diff so the clutches are not out past the end as it sits now.

Using the chain case seemed like a cool idea but it may not work unless I find a longer one. In the position it sets now as shown, I would need to extend the length of the jack shaft. I can do that no problem if I decide to go this way with everything set as shown. If so then the diff would have to be farther forward then I want. or the rear frame rails will need to be extended. I can easily do that and extend the roll cage braces. Seen that done on another Odyssey and it looked good.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:46 pm 
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Location: Norco, CA
You have a very interesting setup and keep up the good work, you should also get on the minibuggy.net forum as this would fit right in.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:46 pm 
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Kuma wrote:
You have a very interesting setup and keep up the good work, you should also get on the minibuggy.net forum as this would fit right in.

Thanks for the comment.

Concerning the minibuggy.net site, I was just considering exactly that.

I will probably wait until I am bit farther along first though.

Robert


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:00 pm 
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Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
what is your final drive gear ratio using the chain case and the diff?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:07 am 
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Posts: 15
Kuma wrote:
what is your final drive gear ratio using the chain case and the diff?

Diff is 4.44

Chain case sprockets are:
Top 19t
Bottom 45t

45/19 = 2.36

4.44 x 2.36 = 10.47 for the chain case and diff

Tires will be 27 tall. 84.8" circumference.

I do not know how to calculate the clutch ratio?

Only thing I ever found on the snowmobile forums regarding clutch ratio is for higher speeds and they are saying 1 to 1 ratio when they calculate that.

I would like to know what that clutch ratio will be when it starts to engage and pull.

Was going to get it running with this ratio and then make changes if needed.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:13 pm 
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Location: Norco, CA
you should be in the ball park, I believe stock oddy box is 10:1, possibly 9:1, I don't recall exactly.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:07 am 
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Kuma wrote:
you should be in the ball park, I believe stock oddy box is 10:1, possibly 9:1, I don't recall exactly.

I could not find exact info on stock Odyssey trans ratio so I checked this odyssey I am working on now. Gearbox is 10 to 1.

As you said, I figured 10 to 1 or a bit better would get me in the ball park with the rotax 521 Engine.

I am not sure if I am going with 27 or 30" tall rear tires. That will make a difference. Will try and find 27" tall tires but that is not easily found with 14" Polaris rims that come on the RZR 1000 machines I got my rear knuckles and hubs from. Want to go with the 14" rims so stock RZR rear brakes will fit. Can get some 12" rims but RZR brake calipers probably wont fit then.

My other Odyssey has a 600 Yamaha Engine [96hp] with the stock Odyssey trans and 27" tall rear tires and it accelerates pretty hard. It may still need lower gearing as I want it to be able to break the tires loose instantly at full throttle like a hemi cuda with 4.56 gears.

Some clutch adjustment might help with that.

Robert

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:19 pm 
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Location: Norco, CA
27 to 30 inch is pretty tall for the oddy, I'd recommend 26, 24 is stock on a pilot and not sure on an oddy


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