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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:58 am 
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Im going to look at and fl350 today (https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/snw/6175667859.html) first one, new to these sweet machines. its got a dirty fuel tank, start and goes into gear but doesn't run well. No idea on hours. Im going to bring a compression gauge to check the Engine.


I need tips on what to look for and when to walk away from it... . thoughts?

Could this be a good deal?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:29 am 
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Location: Rhode Island
Be sure to check compression with throttle wide open.

I would also check the brakes, rear axle u-joints, and shocks. Those are the more expensive repairs. None of those would really be a deal breaker if you can get it that cheap, even if the Engine needs rebuild.

Looks like the shifter handle is broken.

Good luck & welcome to the Oddy world!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:08 am 
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tips on checking the axel joints? i also figured the shocks being replaced would be a must...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:23 am 
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Location: Rhode Island
djscoutmaster wrote:
tips on checking the axel joints? i also figured the shocks being replaced would be a must...


Make sure there is no play in them and they do not bind up. Best if you jack it up to check.

To upgrade the front and rear shocks your looking at around $1000. Just a thought because that's what you are going to offer for the whole thing. :shock: Pretty crazy huh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:27 pm 
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I bought it! Got it for $900 below are the good, the bad, and the questions.

Photos https://goo.gl/photos/epqUExw226gFYc9G6

The Good
It runs
the rear axels felt solid and no play
Rear brakes have lots of pads and work well
E-Brake works great
i have both rear fenders
All ball joints, tie rod ends, bushing are old but seem to still be doing there job
Shocks are rusted but seem to be doing there job.
The fame has seen some abuse but little evidence of and major crashes
brake lines look on, no cracks
Enough tread on the tire to no worry about them for now.

The Bad
It doesn't run well (100psi compression) rebuild im the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? ))?
Carb needs to be rebuilt
When i pull out on the top of the front wheels i get about 1/4of play not sure where it coming from
Gas Tank is in very dirty inside and needs to be cleaned out
The brake master cylinder is dry and has cracked plastic windows on the side (no brakes...)
front brake condition unknown
No front fenders
Starter button on the steering wheel doesn't work
Lights don't work
Choke cable doesn't work

My plan is to get as much things back up to working order, don't need performance just reliability.

The Questions
Did i get a good deal?
Where do i start with the work?
What is the list of general maintenance i need to go through?
Where is the best place to get parts? (used is ok with me)
Im not afraid of a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) rebuild but don't know how much i have to do vs a shop?
None of the break master cylinders rebuild kits have the clear window replacements?
There is no dipstick for the Engine oil just a plug with a flat head slot?
Do i need to rebuild the clutch?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4397
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Welcome new guy.
Did I get a good deal $900 -- In my opinion yes.
Now the work and money really starts.

Here is my list of things to check on an oddy when you are doing an Engine job or bought one.
1) Fuel - your fuel pump must put out about 4.5 oz/ten seconds approx and your fuel must meet minimum octane rating in manual. I run straight avgas or you can mix it 50/50 with pump fuel.
2) Do the vent modification - use the search box above.
3) Check your stock intake manifold - they're 30yrs old and crack just looking at them.
4) Check your reeds, they must seal or you could get low compression reading on your gauge. Make sure your gauge is accurate.
5) Engine must pass pressure AND vacuum test - if it doesn't don't even start it, find the leak. I use 10psi max pressure and 10in vacuum in my tests and it must hold for half hour minimum.
6) Rebuild the starter, it is a big job after the Engine is in the machine.
7) Gas tank - if it's rusty inside get it cleaned and coated at a rad shop. If you look inside with a flashlight and it looks like the pickup tubes are rusted I would tap the tank drain plug and draw fuel from there. Both my machines are like that now.
8) Original fuel pump and vacuum lines are junk now after 30yrs so replace them.
9) Remove the drive shafts and make sure the u joints are good.
10) Check the wheel bearings.
11) Over fill the transmission -- put two quarts of oil in it. It's a splash lube system and the driven shaft bearing don't get any lube unless you are driving so don't rev it in the driveway all day long
12) Adjust your brakes - I set them (F & R) so I can feel a bit of drag.
13) If doing an Engine rebuild do NOT use the paper base gasket as it blows out. Must use the metal one.
14) Should build shock savers. Use the search box above.
15) Replace the rear springs with 155lbs units. Stock ones are way to stiff and result in NO shock travel.
16) Some good info here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15392&hilit=danifold

Searching for info:
The best way to find something here is to use the search box above.
In the search box type ONE word only and hit enter. If you don't you will get to many hits.
When the list of threads comes up there will be another search box there on the right.
In that box type ONE word only. Keep doing this as many times as you want until you have narrowed it down. Some common words will be ignored like "Engine" "Honda" etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
With your Engine at 100psi compression it needs a rebuild.
Wiseco is the only company that makes pistons for oddy's.
Also note if you are rebuilding Engine yourself take note on bolt lengths when you take it apart. Several of the casing bolts are close in length and if you put it in the wrong hole it will just grab a couple of threads, and when you try to tighten it down it will pull the threads out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
There is no dipstick for the Engine oil just a plug with a flat head slot?
Do i need to rebuild the clutch?

1) Ohhhhh I hope the clown didn't damage the threads ramming in some crap bolt.
When you do the vent mod you can toss that crap bolt he rammed in there. If you look at the list of stuff I posted for you to do check out #16. The vent mod stuff is listed there.
2) If you are pulling this machine apart -- Yes I would.

You also stated that the start button don't work. Probably because starter is toast and needs rebuild. Look at #16 in the list I provided. Parts numbers are there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Pressure testing a two stroke: PDF below.


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2 stroke pressure testing.pdf [314.03 KiB]
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Posts: 48
Thanks canadian oddy for all the fantastic info, this is a great start! is there a good "top-end" rebuild walkthrough on this site?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
One of the last items to do is the shock saver mod.
The problem with the oddy is that the drive shafts are part of the rear suspension. If you blow a u-joint then the wheel swings outward and it bends your shock shaft. Make sure chain is correct length so that wheel can travel full stroke with no binding. Use heat shrink tube over the chain so that it don't slap around and hit paint off of stuff.

Yes I know this is a lot of info but we may as well clue you in right away so that you don't keep blowing engines and have break downs. Because all you are going to do is get frustrated and sell it. I wish I would have been clued in right from the start. Take one item at a time. This is not a five minute project.


Attachments:
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20150615_135918.jpg [ 54.02 KiB | Viewed 416 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:49 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
Thanks canadian oddy for all the fantastic info, this is a great start! is there a good "top-end" rebuild walkthrough on this site?


I don't know.
Lots of good info here but you have to search for it.
It should be a straight foreword job. Pull the Engine, you can't do it properly when in place. Pull the top cage off so that you don't bump your pumpkin.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
You can get a FREE PDF of the manual and some parts here: http://oddatv.com/fl250-fl350-factory-manuals/


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I love that "fuel tank" -- priceless LOL.
Get one off fleabay or go to a plastic place the makes plastic tanks. See if they can make you one that fits in the original place for a reasonable price. Some here run spun aluminum tanks and mount them to the down tubes. I am not a fan of this as I have been on fire in a race car before. If you run a spun aluminum you will still need a fuel pump. Don't run gravity feed unless you change the fuel valve in the carb. The stock one won't flow enough fuel.

I see you seat has a rip. You used to be able to get a nice seat cover from Wet Okole https://www.wetokole.com/FL350-400.html but I see that they don't offer them anymore. Try the local boat shop.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
I love that "fuel tank" -- priceless LOL.
Get one off fleabay or go to a plastic place the makes plastic tanks. See if they can make you one that fits in the original place for a reasonable price. Some here run spun aluminum tanks and mount them to the down tubes. I am not a fan of this as I have been on fire in a race car before. If you run a spun aluminum you will still need a fuel pump. Don't run gravity feed unless you change the fuel valve in the carb. The stock one won't flow enough fuel.

I see you seat has a rip. You used to be able to get a nice seat cover from Wet Okole https://www.wetokole.com/FL350-400.html but I see that they don't offer them anymore. Try the local boat shop.



Thanks for the suggestions. im going to stick with the stock take for now just clean it out... it wasn't in the pictures but was included.

Should i be inspecting or doing anything with the clutch?

Any cheaper options for the master cylinder, ebay wants 250$!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:42 pm 
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How important is a water cooled head? this guy will spend most of its time on trails in montana with cool air.

Can i get away with just a oddy-cool? do they work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Odyssey-fl350-ODDY-COOL-fan-cooling-system-/301868456323?hash=item4648c31983:g:-vUAAOSwYmZXHYb1&vxp=mtr


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
How important is a water cooled head? this guy will spend most of its time on trails in montana with cool air.

Can i get away with just a oddy-cool? do they work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Odyssey-fl350-ODDY-COOL-fan-cooling-system-/301868456323?hash=item4648c31983:g:-vUAAOSwYmZXHYb1&vxp=mtr


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17465

I also think that you can get the master cylinder sight glasses on Amazon
Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16775&hilit=glass+brake+master

Good luck now with your re-build, you have more than enough info to keep you busy for months.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4558
Location: Carson City NV
If you are going to be riding at a fairly good clip (faster than 20mph) and in cool air, you don't need a water cooled head. It's only when you push the Ody hard for a long period of time that it could use benefits from the additional water cooling.

For me if I'm running the fire roads up here in Norther Nevada at around 35 to 45 mph additional cooling isn't really needed. I ran for a full season in the dunes without any cooling but finally broke down and did it first with a cooling fan and then changed my setup to a billet water cooled head.

My latest Ody just has a bilge fan blowing down on the top of the head and that works just fine, even in the dunes. I will however in the future put a water cooled setup on it just for peace of mind.

It doesn't hurt to have all the cooling you can get!

P.S. You can do the same thing with a bilge fan for under 20 bucks and plug access is a lot easier.

Rand


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:06 am 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Randman wrote:
If you are going to be riding at a fairly good clip (faster than 20mph) and in cool air, you don't need a water cooled head. It's only when you push the Ody hard for a long period of time that it could use benefits from the additional water cooling.

For me if I'm running the fire roads up here in Norther Nevada at around 35 to 45 mph additional cooling isn't really needed. I ran for a full season in the dunes without any cooling but finally broke down and did it first with a cooling fan and then changed my setup to a billet water cooled head.

My latest Ody just has a bilge fan blowing down on the top of the head and that works just fine, even in the dunes. I will however in the future put a water cooled setup on it just for peace of mind.

It doesn't hurt to have all the cooling you can get!

P.S. You can do the same thing with a bilge fan for under 20 bucks and plug access is a lot easier.

Rand


Rand I wish I knew what you were doing and I was not doing at the time. I could not for the life of me get my engines to run on that pump gas. In the above statement you mention fire roads. I azzume those would be fairly flat runs. I run in the mountains from just above sea level to over 5000' and would run a lot faster than what you are mentioning here on those fire roads. But you also mention dunes -- that's tough haulin for an oddy and yet yours lived. I don't understand what was going wrong, mine blew up constantly until I started running Avgas. Now they run flawless. Its just gas n go.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:36 am 
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Here's a PDF parts book for ya if you want to run some numbers at the Honda dealers to see if they have the part still available.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Location: Carson City NV
canadian oddy wrote:
Randman wrote:
If you are going to be riding at a fairly good clip (faster than 20mph) and in cool air, you don't need a water cooled head. It's only when you push the Ody hard for a long period of time that it could use benefits from the additional water cooling.

For me if I'm running the fire roads up here in Norther Nevada at around 35 to 45 mph additional cooling isn't really needed. I ran for a full season in the dunes without any cooling but finally broke down and did it first with a cooling fan and then changed my setup to a billet water cooled head.

My latest Ody just has a bilge fan blowing down on the top of the head and that works just fine, even in the dunes. I will however in the future put a water cooled setup on it just for peace of mind.

It doesn't hurt to have all the cooling you can get!

P.S. You can do the same thing with a bilge fan for under 20 bucks and plug access is a lot easier.

Rand


Rand I wish I knew what you were doing and I was not doing at the time. I could not for the life of me get my engines to run on that pump gas. In the above statement you mention fire roads. I azzume those would be fairly flat runs. I run in the mountains from just above sea level to over 5000' and would run a lot faster than what you are mentioning here on those fire roads. But you also mention dunes -- that's tough haulin for an oddy and yet yours lived. I don't understand what was going wrong, mine blew up constantly until I started running Avgas. Now they run flawless. Its just gas n go.


The runs I make in the mountains are close to your scenario but I am running from 5,000 to around 9,000 feet in elevation. Another variation is humidity. Our humidity here is almost always less that 15%. High humidity will also greatly effect jetting. The more moisture the air the more fuel is needed to counteract that problem.

If you are going to push them hard, you have to run your Ody jetting fat, just on the edge of plug fouling.

I am guessing that you run with your brother a lot so you are probably pushing them a lot harder than the average person would. I know when I run mine with my Son in Law (Ridindirty), we ride very hard and have to stop and let them cool down so some type of additional cooling is a huge plus.

Rand


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:57 pm 
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What an easy way to keep tabs on the Engine temp so i don't overheat? Cylinder head temp guage? Exhaust temp guage?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
What an easy way to keep tabs on the Engine temp so i don't overheat? Cylinder head temp guage? Exhaust temp guage?


Well you are no where near that right now.
Since yours is air cooled I would get a unit that the go-cart guys use. It's a head temp gauge. The disk fits under the sparkplug and the wire goes to the gauge.
An exhaust temp gauge is ok AFTER you have a running Engine that is jetted correctly. You can not use this gauge to jet your Engine. In my opinion I would run the go-cart unit.
If I find a link to what I am talking about here I will post.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Here ya go: http://thesensorconnection.com/cht-sens ... sor-kit-fs

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mh41oW0S48


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
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Location: Carson City NV
You can also try Trail Tech's sensors. I ran a trail Tech Vapor on my 1st Ody when it was air water cooled. The make kits that are also for air cooled units which sense temperature under the spark plug.

With it you get.....

Temp gauge
Odometer
Hour meter
Speedometer

And a few other features you might like.

http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gauges/vapor

Rand


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