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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Quick update

1. Dipped the carb and re-assembled it. (dirt dirt jets now clean)

3. Made a quick fix for my air filter issue (need to paint it black)

4. Started operation "clean the tank" (gas tank).
- I put 1 gallon of mineral spirits and 3000 BBs inside and shook it for 30mins. Got the bulk of the rust and gunk. Next step is to fill it to the brim with muriatic acid for a few hours and make sure I've got clean bare metal everywhere. The picture shows the beautiful color of the liquid that came out... i have before and after pictures next time

Questions
- cheapest place to get the T fitting for the pump line? They were all 20+ buck everywhere i looked.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
Questions
- cheapest place to get the T fitting for the pump line? They were all 20+ buck everywhere i looked.


Your gona pay that or you can try to make your own check valves like I did.
I don't want to give out any specs (I have reasons).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:18 am 
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canadian oddy wrote:
djscoutmaster wrote:
Questions
- cheapest place to get the T fitting for the pump line? They were all 20+ buck everywhere i looked.


Your gona pay that or you can try to make your own check valves like I did.
I don't want to give out any specs (I have reasons).


Ordered one :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Weekend Updates

My Tank is finally clean!!!
Before and after pictures below. Im going to try and install the tank and get all the fuel line routing up and working tommarow.

Questions
1. The following are all i should need to do all the fuel routing correct? ( Fuel filter, Fuel lines, fuel pump + 3 way check valve)
2. What type of fuel lines should i buy?
3. What type of 2-stroke oil should i use?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Wow that's pretty good.
My only concern now is how badly the lines and screens are corroded. Look into the tank and you can see the screens at the end of the lines. How bad ??
What type of two stroke oil -- that is another one of those points of argument here. You choose.
Hoses -- make sure it's fuel rated.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:35 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Wow that's pretty good.
My only concern now is how badly the lines and screens are corroded. Look into the tank and you can see the screens at the end of the lines. How bad ??
What type of two stroke oil -- that is another one of those points of argument here. You choose.
Hoses -- make sure it's fuel rated.


what do the screens look like? i didn't see any screen in the tanks when i was cleaning it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well if you can't see any then they are corrode off I guess. Mine had brass screen on end of line.
I looked for some pics on my computer but I can't find any.
I would put a bit of compressed air on the shut off valve end and blow into the tank to make sure the lines are free and clear so you can get flow.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:53 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
I would put a bit of compressed air on the shut off valve end and blow into the tank to make sure the lines are free and clear so you can get flow.


i will make sure and do that, ill also watch my fuel filter and see if any thing blocks it up just in case. Im close to trying to start it up again :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I just found this piece in the scrap box and took a pic.
This is what is on the end of each tube in the tank and in that round hole is a cylindrical screen about and inch long. This piece is spot welded on the tube. Mine were broken or corroded off. On one machine there was still a clogged brass screen. I must have thrown it all out but did have this bit left in the scrap box.

Can't seem to be able to attach any pics at the moment. Will post it when I can.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:05 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Lets try again -- that's weird -- it works now.


Attachments:
File comment: bit at the end of the fuel lines in the tank. Missing is the brass screen for the end of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:14 pm 
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yup that's what mine looks like... there is no screen, must has corroded off. But at least i have a clean tank, clean carb, clean air filter, working starter. The previous owner claimed it ran earlier in the day before i got there and he was running it up and down the street. If any of that is true im hoping it will fire up after all my TLC.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
yup that's what mine looks like... there is no screen, must has corroded off. But at least i have a clean tank, clean carb, clean air filter, working starter. The previous owner claimed it ran earlier in the day before i got there and he was running it up and down the street. If any of that is true im hoping it will fire up after all my TLC.


STOP RIGHT THERE !!
Did you pressure/vacuum test that Engine ??
If not I wouldn't even start it.
Did you do a flow test on the pump yet ??
If not I wouldn't even start it.
If you do try anyways then at least run a tank of race fuel or Avgas.

The previous owner claimed it ran earlier in the day before i got there and he was running it up and down the street.
BAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
rolling on the floor right now -- that's a fn good one -- Baahahhahahahahaha

Edit: Your the one that cleaned that carb -- did it look like it would run -- Baahahahahaaha


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:25 am 
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I have little exspectations that it will run. My plan was to clean everything out and troubleshoot 1

The carb jet were pretty dirty.... it look like it could have ran poorly, i have not prrssure tested it reason being that if it doesnt start i was going straight to a rebuild anyway. It had 100psi of compression when i bought it so if it did run, it couldnt have ran well.

If there is any chance that by doing a pressure test it tells me something that doesnt require a full rebuild ill do it... Could it tell me just a top end rebuild or head gasket repacement? I figure woth 100 psi compression i could assume my rings / cylinder was in rough shape.

? How do i test the pump without hooking it up the the Engine while cranking?

*pressure testing will be step 1 of the rebuild when that time comes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
1) The pressure/vacuum test will tell you if the crank seals are still good. This would indicate if you have to do a total rebuild or just a top end. You NEVER take an Engine apart until you do this because it is a golden opportunity to verify the condition of seals inside.
2) You can do the fuel pump test if the Engine turns over. Remove the line to the carb and place it in a measuring cup of some kind. Then crank Engine for 10sec -- use a stop watch. If you got 4.5oz in that cup your good.
I know that you know CAUTION FIRE but just wana remind ya.

At the end of the day you already know that Engine is weak so why not rebuild it ??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:34 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
At the end of the day you already know that Engine is weak so why not rebuild it ??


Great Question, I was hoping it would run well enough for me to take it around the block a bit and five me motivation for one of 3 things options
1. Do a quick top end (if the bottom end is ok and save money for now)
2. I love this thing and im ready to do a full rebuild ?
3. Get a rotax conversion from Farr-Offroad (save the rebuild time + add more power)
4. just fix as much as i can (brakes, gas tank, fendors, etc) and sell it in better shape to someone willing to finish it off?

I don't really have all the cash for a full rebuild and then a restore + upgrades so i'm trying to spend as little as possible to get me hooked and be in for the long hall or decide to sell it in better condition that i received to the next guy.

** i have never actually driven and Odyssey or pilot, this guys was just a offer i couldn't pass up.
::-:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Just my opinion here but a conversion of any kind is real involved and expensive. When I first got my oddys I blew nine engines in a row. Several times they never went more than 100yrds -- no lie. At the time others were telling me to do an Engine conversion. I thought about it for about 5 seconds and then quickly realized you run into a lot of money and issues. First -- where are you going to pull fuel from when the new Engine takes up the whole back area ?? Second -- money. Third -- time and engineering involved (electrical etc). Fourth -- the oddy suspension at the back is non existent so will I have to up grade it after the swap ?? In stock form you still have to replace the rear springs because Honda fkd up on this real bad. You literally have no rear suspension movement right now.
It just gets stupid and snowballs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Based on what I am reading here, I get the feeling and think that you really like this machine but will most likely sell it because you just can't spend the money on it, and you are smart enough (mechanically and otherwise) to realize it. I might be wrong on this azz-umption but that's what I am thinking right now. If it does start, I hope you fall in love with this thing because if you don't love these machines then your done.

Edit: When ever you buy something and spend a few bucks "fixing it up" you have to consider the money GONE. Your never going to get it back. It never ceases to amaze me when someone says that "I want to get my money out of it" when they are trying to sell something. People never think like that when they go on a vacation cruise. Anywhere from two to five thousand bucks GONE, and they don't cry about it. And yet when they buy a used car and then try to sell it later they want the money back. LOL.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
Posts: 277
Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
Based on what I am reading here, I get the feeling and think that you really like this machine but will most likely sell it because you just can't spend the money on it, and you are smart enough (mechanically and otherwise) to realize it. I might be wrong on this azz-umption but that's what I am thinking right now. If it does start, I hope you fall in love with this thing because if you don't love these machines then your done.

Edit: When ever you buy something and spend a few bucks "fixing it up" you have to consider the money GONE. Your never going to get it back. It never ceases to amaze me when someone says that "I want to get my money out of it" when they are trying to sell something. People never think like that when they go on a vacation cruise. Anywhere from two to five thousand bucks GONE, and they don't cry about it. And yet when they buy a used car and then try to sell it later they want the money back. LOL.


Word. $2-5k but imho, between the wrenching (as long as you enjoy wrenching) and the riding, worth it.
At this moment, at least. :-)
The adrenaline rush and smile that thing will put on your face when it's ripping is incredible.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm 
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I have rebuilt motors, cars, transmissions and everything else under the sun. For now im really enjoying taking one small piece at a time. I appriciate the help and insights from everyone on the forum. Ill keep up the projects and pictures and hope i fall more and more in love with it. But if not im sure i can find a good home for it in the future.

I can always "find" the money if i love it enough i just have to go through the "appropriation committe" aka my wife for approval :) i thought i was going to be about 1k into it before it was trail ready. But im thinking it will be more like 2500. So im keeping that in mind :)

The next update should be after my pressure test.

Question
1. What leakdown times are acceptable? I plan to go up to 8psi and see how kong it holds. All my searching in the forum didnt give clear leakdown time tolerances.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:38 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:

Edit: When ever you buy something and spend a few bucks "fixing it up" you have to consider the money GONE. Your never going to get it back. It never ceases to amaze me when someone says that "I want to get my money out of it" when they are trying to sell something. People never think like that when they go on a vacation cruise. Anywhere from two to five thousand bucks GONE, and they don't cry about it. And yet when they buy a used car and then try to sell it later they want the money back. LOL.


I don't have any "delusions" of getting my money back. Just build something fun for cheaper and more unique that a SXS


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
Question
1. What leakdown times are acceptable? I plan to go up to 8psi and see how kong it holds. All my searching in the forum didnt give clear leakdown time tolerances.


When I do my tests I use 10psi and it must hold for half hour min. Then I do the vacuum test and it must hold for half hour min. When I say "hold" I mean there must still be pressure there after half hour or more. No more than a few psi drop if any.
Duncan racing uses less psi and it must not lose ANY pressure. See attached pdf below.
You choose as both ways will work.


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2 stroke pressure testing.pdf [314.03 KiB]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:22 am 
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Update

- made a leakdown test kit, used it and it failed misserably. Held pressure for about 10-15 seconds max. I sprayed soaping water on every part i could find and no bubbles. The 2 places i could not reach where the crank seals. The cluch and pull start covers were both on. Ill find the leak before the teardown of the rebuild. (Video attached)
- the tank is clean but the res line is clogged, tried everything to unclogg it. No luck. Im buying an air compressor tommarow to try and blow it out and if that doesnt fix it ill be getting a new gas tank.
- cleaned air filter and air box, painted my air filter top.
- in an effort to remove the seat i tried removing the bottom seat bolts. Water started porring out of the bolts and 2 of the 4 bolts snapped(rusted) and 1 is stripped. Good news, now i know why my seat would never dry out...

Questions
1. What options do i have for stripped rusted broken seat bolts? Do most buy an!aftermarket seat?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:38 am 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
Update

- made a leakdown test kit, used it and it failed misserably. Held pressure for about 10-15 seconds max. I sprayed soaping water on every part i could find and no bubbles. The 2 places i could not reach where the crank seals. The cluch and pull start covers were both on. Ill find the leak before the teardown of the rebuild. (Video attached)
- the tank is clean but the res line is clogged, tried everything to unclogg it. No luck. Im buying an air compressor tommarow to try and blow it out and if that doesnt fix it ill be getting a new gas tank.
- cleaned air filter and air box, painted my air filter top.
- in an effort to remove the seat i tried removing the bottom seat bolts. Water started porring out of the bolts and 2 of the 4 bolts snapped(rusted) and 1 is stripped. Good news, now i know why my seat would never dry out...

Questions
1. What options do i have for stripped rusted broken seat bolts? Do most buy an!aftermarket seat?


1) Seat bolts
The oddys have a safety bolt. It's just a regular bolt with the threads milled off a bit near the end. This leaves about two threads at the very end. I don't use these because when you try to take them out the two threads at the end almost always brake off in the hole. No problem though. Just punch the broken bit out with a hammer and punch. Use some skill here, don't FN smash it with the hammer. The bit will come out easy. You may then have to re-tap the hole. You should be able to use the original bolt now. Any bolts you get out with the little safety thread at the end I would just grind off. If at any point the hole threads are shot then what I have done is weld a new nut on.
2) You said: the tank is clean but the res line is clogged, tried everything to unclogg it. No luck. Im buying an air compressor tommarow to try and blow it out and if that doesnt fix it ill be getting a new gas tank.
NO -- you can drill and tap the drain plug and pull fuel from there. Both my machines are like that now. Pic below.
3) Leak down test
Yup it failed according to that video. You can loosen the dip stick and soap around it to see if any bubbles. If yes then the double lip seal is shot. You will also have to remove the pull starter assembly so that you can soap the seal in there and check for bubbles.

Edit: I hope you had the piston in the down position or at least low enough that the ports were open. The reason is that if the piston is up at TDC (Top Dead Center) then the pressure slowly migrates to the combustion chamber through the rings. Piston must be down for an accurate test. In my opinion though, that pressure drop I seen in the video was unbelievably quick. I don't think it would drop that fast even if the piston was up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:54 pm 
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The piston was up, but it sounds like its still just too far gone.

Thanks for the tip on drail plug!

One of the seat bolts is just spinning in the hole, looke like the recieving end is spinning in the seat... that one will be fun to get out...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
[quote="djscoutmaster"]The piston was up, but it sounds like its still just too far gone.quote]

Do it again.


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