Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png PilotOdyssey.com V2.0   
It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:39 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 99 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
canadian oddy wrote:
djscoutmaster wrote:
The piston was up, but it sounds like its still just too far gone.quote]

Do it again.


will do, should have time this weekend


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
UPDATE - Brakes


I took apart the front right brake tonight.

Observations
- Wheel bearing didn't have play
- brake shoes measured in at 6mm (service manual says services at 2mm)
- The wheel cylinder looks aftermarket and newer and is clear by the measurements i took with the calipers (picture attached), service limit is 17.407mm and the piston... this one would not event fit inside a stock wheel cylinder
- There was some brake fluid left inside and the wheel cylinder rubber was in good shape and the wheel cylinder look alright (pictures attached)
- The Brake drum was not scored and was smooth
- The Brake drum measured at 162mm (manual says service at 161mm)

Questions
1. What do i do about the service limit on the brake drums? All the drums on eBay are used and who knows what shape they are in?
2. What do new brake shoes measure at in thickness?

Attachment:
IMG_2169.JPG
IMG_2169.JPG [ 30.21 KiB | Viewed 307 times ]


Attachments:
IMG_2170.JPG
IMG_2170.JPG [ 54.23 KiB | Viewed 307 times ]
IMG_2175.JPG
IMG_2175.JPG [ 56.83 KiB | Viewed 307 times ]
IMG_2174.JPG
IMG_2174.JPG [ 44.69 KiB | Viewed 307 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Questions
1. What do i do about the service limit on the brake drums? All the drums on eBay are used and who knows what shape they are in?
2. What do new brake shoes measure at in thickness?

1) You can just FN forget about the wear limit on the drums.
Honda puts those numbers in to protect them from liability. You can't get these anymore. Ebay will be a gamble like you said and probably won't be in any better shape. Run'm till they blow, but that won't be until we are all dead and gone. They don't wear much in my opinion. Anyone ever replace any drums or even any shoes ?? These things last forever so I doubt a steel drum will wear much. They will be good for well below the wear limit in my opinion -- but I have been wrong before.
Any comments anyone ??

2) I had two brand new packages of shoes in a parts collection I bought from a local guy.
Below are the pics and measurements.


Attachments:
20170706_205950.jpg
20170706_205950.jpg [ 42.99 KiB | Viewed 300 times ]
20170706_210005.jpg
20170706_210005.jpg [ 41.97 KiB | Viewed 300 times ]
20170706_210038.jpg
20170706_210038.jpg [ 47.43 KiB | Viewed 300 times ]
20170706_210118.jpg
20170706_210118.jpg [ 43.9 KiB | Viewed 300 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Anyone else have exsperience with the brake drum wear limits?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:21 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
I've never heard of anyone buying new drums because they were out of spec. Seems like the biggest problems with the front brakes is getting them adjusted properly. I guess the second problem would be the master cylinders needing to be rebuilt.

If I was you I would run them the way they are. Not many other options for you.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4558
Location: Carson City NV
You don't need to worry about the thickness of the drum, what you really need to pay attention to is the fit of the shoe to the stopping surface of the drum.

With that being said.....

Place your brake new brake shoes into the drum and press them against the wear surface area. If the shoes contact evenly across the wear area then you are good to go. If the shoes tend to only touch one area of the shoe then you need to grind some of the shoe off until it mates properly with the stopping surface of the drum.

One good rule of thumb with these drum brakes & shoes is to adjust them so the wheel drags slightly when spun and then take the Ody or Pilot out for a spin and "ride" the front brake for a few passes. Let the brakes cool down and then re-adjust them. Do this a couple of time so the shoe wears into the drum for an exact fit.

Rand


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Randman wrote:
You don't need to worry about the thickness of the drum, what you really need to pay attention to is the fit of the shoe to the stopping surface of the drum.

With that being said.....

Place your brake new brake shoes into the drum and press them against the wear surface area. If the shoes contact evenly across the wear area then you are good to go. If the shoes tend to only touch one area of the shoe then you need to grind some of the shoe off until it mates properly with the stopping surface of the drum.

One good rule of thumb with these drum brakes & shoes is to adjust them so the wheel drags slightly when spun and then take the Ody or Pilot out for a spin and "ride" the front brake for a few passes. Let the brakes cool down and then re-adjust them. Do this a couple of time so the shoe wears into the drum for an exact fit.

Rand


I don't plan to replace the shoes quite yet, i assume the current pad had seated to the drum well but eill chekc when its running again. Ill plan on running through this procedure with new shoes later.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
djscoutmaster wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
djscoutmaster wrote:
The piston was up, but it sounds like its still just too far gone.quote]

Do it again.


will do, should have time this weekend


I performed the test again with the piston all yhe way down and it double the time it took to lose pressure but that not saying much, from 6 to 12 seconds is still pretty bad.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Modified fuel line updated

I took the advice of canadian oddy about using the drain plug to pull fuel. I ordered a 12mx1.5 to 1/4 nptf converter and a 1/4 npt petcock with on/off/res and a screen. Given the previous state of my tank i wanted and extra screen and reserve setting to be on the safe side. Should have it this week an possible try firing her up next weekend.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Pics of what you ordered there please.
I can't quite figure out what you are saying about that "reserve and screen" thing. How is that going to fit through that little drain hole ?? You don't want anything hanging down to low or it will get smacked off by a rock.
Pics of what you ordered please.

I just drilled and tapped the drain plug itself.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
canadian oddy wrote:
Pics of what you ordered there please.
I can't quite figure out what you are saying about that "reserve and screen" thing. How is that going to fit through that little drain hole ?? You don't want anything hanging down to low or it will get smacked off by a rock.
Pics of what you ordered please.

I just drilled and tapped the drain plug itself.



its a 12mmx1.5 to 1/4 NPTF connector, I also ordered a 1/4 NPT petcock with a screen and a reserve setting. i wanted extra filtration and to retain some reserve tank functionality. I also looked everyone for a 90degree end threaded on one side and 1/4 ID hose fitting on the other with no luck..

We will see when i get everything how low it hangs down., the screen might be a bit small to fit through the adapter but i would rather modify the adapter that mess with changing the tank in any way.


Attachments:
petcock.jpg
petcock.jpg [ 35.32 KiB | Viewed 246 times ]
adapter.jpeg
adapter.jpeg [ 9.27 KiB | Viewed 246 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That's a sweet set up. I like it. Good idea -- I may steal it one day.
Just make sure you have clearance for axel swing.
If it hangs "a bit" low you can make something to protect it and mount it to the skid plate for the tank.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
canadian oddy wrote:
That's a sweet set up. I like it. Good idea -- I may steal it one day.
Just make sure you have clearance for axel swing.
If it hangs "a bit" low you can make something to protect it and mount it to the skid plate for the tank.


Im actually filing for a patent on it as we speak. jk, thanks for the tip, i wanted to keep the tank location but wasn't ready to buy and overpriced ebay one and start the cleaning process all over.

I hope there is clearance as well, we shall see later this week.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
Update -- Fuel Pump Testing

I got all my fuel lines hooked up, double checked all the routing based on the service manual. All lines dry I put the carb line in a empty container with a 4oz mark on it the fuel end in fuel, cranked it for 10sec nothing... another 10, nothing. How long should it take with dry lines to get fuel to start flowing? I might have a bad pump.

Troubleshooting I tried
- Double checking routing and connections
- cranked with and without a spark plug in
- Made multiple attempts because the lines are new and dry
- blowing cleaner through the pump to insure it wasn't clogged
- manual blowing through a tube hooked to the pump vacuum line (I heard it pulsing, doesn't mean its in good shape of coarse)

Questions
1. Is my pump shot or am i missing a step when trying this for the first time with dry lines?
2. When I cranked the Engine over with the plug in I got some were noises and not a steady crank (video attached). I know its going to be hard with no spark and the plug in. Is my starter just week? (my battery was is fantastic shape)


Attachments:

IMG_2212.MOV [ 13.8 MiB | Viewed 230 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:44 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
First thing - you do not want to crank a dry premix 2 cycle Engine. The oil is in the gas and if the gas is not getting to the Engine then the oil is not also. I would prime the Engine by adding some premix to the cylinder, and starting the Engine with the choke on. I assume you have fuel in the tank and the fuel pump is connected correctly. let her run for a little bit. This will get the fuel system full. Then pull the return line from the tank and start her up and measure the output per time.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
I retread your last post. I'm a little confused on your approach. Hook the system up like it is designed and then test the flow.

The line from the Engine is the pulse line. The pressure pulses from pressure to vacuum as the piston moves up and down. This pulse action works the diaphragm in the pump and along with the check valves in the pump draws fuel from the tank and into the carb.

You want to measure the fuel that the pump returns to the gas tank while running in the specified amount of time.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
rmesser wrote:
I retread your last post. I'm a little confused on your approach. Hook the system up like it is designed and then test the flow.

The line from the Engine is the pulse line. The pressure pulses from pressure to vacuum as the piston moves up and down. This pulse action works the diaphragm in the pump and along with the check valves in the pump draws fuel from the tank and into the carb.

You want to measure the fuel that the pump returns to the gas tank while running in the specified amount of time.


oooh... I though I wanted to test how much fuel the pump pushes out while cranking.. got it. But I still have the issue that the pump is not pumping anything... period. the line are complete new and dry. i read on the forum that 1 psi of air pressure in the tank would fill up on the lines with fuel. I might try this out to get the pump primed.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
Well I hope I'm not wrong. Do you have a manual? I know I wouldn't crank it dry! I'll go Get my manual and review. Stand by.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:16 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
From 89 fl400 manual.....


Attachments:
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 52.17 KiB | Viewed 224 times ]
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 47.48 KiB | Viewed 224 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:20 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
I couldn't get the video to play on my iPad. Perhaps some pictures would help.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/brakes-front.htm


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 4400
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
djscoutmaster wrote:
rmesser wrote:
I retread your last post. I'm a little confused on your approach. Hook the system up like it is designed and then test the flow.

The line from the Engine is the pulse line. The pressure pulses from pressure to vacuum as the piston moves up and down. This pulse action works the diaphragm in the pump and along with the check valves in the pump draws fuel from the tank and into the carb.

You want to measure the fuel that the pump returns to the gas tank while running in the specified amount of time.


oooh... I though I wanted to test how much fuel the pump pushes out while cranking.. got it. But I still have the issue that the pump is not pumping anything... period. the line are complete new and dry. i read on the forum that 1 psi of air pressure in the tank would fill up on the lines with fuel. I might try this out to get the pump primed.


In my opinion it does not matter if you measure the flow to the tank or just take the line off the carb and crank it over. Either way will measure your pump flow. I do it by removing the line at the carb and pumping into a measuring cup using the starter. I don't start the Engine.
Your problem seems to be three fold. 1) I watched that video and your Engine is not spinning over fast enough. Either your battery is no good or the starter needs a rebuild (most likely the case here). 2) Your Engine failed the pressure/vacuum test miserably. Probably not producing enough pulse to work the pump right. 3) It could be your pump is just no good as it was probably full of the crap that was in your tank.
I am thinking you are just wasting your time and money here. Rebuild it.
Just my opinions.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:49 am
Posts: 48
LOTS OF UPDATES!!

The Good

1. Got my parts for my gas tank petcock turned out pretty good (pictures below)
2. Re-installed the carb and was able to get it started and take it on a spin around the block :) (lots of fun)
3. Fixed my master cylinder. Disassembled cleaned replaced sight glass bench bleed. (pictures below)
4. Finished disassembly and cleaning of all brakes systems, bled all the brakes and go things working again
5. Made a custom panel repair to the foot floorboard (pictures below)
6. Repaired and repainted the rear fenders (pictures below)
7. Deep cleaned (photo shoot below)

The bad
Ive got the FL bug... I think I want to trade up for a pilot...


Attachments:
IMG_2245.JPG
IMG_2245.JPG [ 59.95 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
IMG_2220.JPG
IMG_2220.JPG [ 27.97 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
IMG_2246.JPG
IMG_2246.JPG [ 50.47 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
IMG_2234.JPG
IMG_2234.JPG [ 50.46 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
IMG_2240.JPG
IMG_2240.JPG [ 96.61 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
IMG_2269.JPG
IMG_2269.JPG [ 85.34 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:31 am
Posts: 79
canadian oddy wrote:
Randman wrote:
If you are going to be riding at a fairly good clip (faster than 20mph) and in cool air, you don't need a water cooled head. It's only when you push the Ody hard for a long period of time that it could use benefits from the additional water cooling.

For me if I'm running the fire roads up here in Norther Nevada at around 35 to 45 mph additional cooling isn't really needed. I ran for a full season in the dunes without any cooling but finally broke down and did it first with a cooling fan and then changed my setup to a billet water cooled head.

My latest Ody just has a bilge fan blowing down on the top of the head and that works just fine, even in the dunes. I will however in the future put a water cooled setup on it just for peace of mind.

It doesn't hurt to have all the cooling you can get!

P.S. You can do the same thing with a bilge fan for under 20 bucks and plug access is a lot easier.

Rand


Rand I wish I knew what you were doing and I was not doing at the time. I could not for the life of me get my engines to run on that pump gas. In the above statement you mention fire roads. I azzume those would be fairly flat runs. I run in the mountains from just above sea level to over 5000' and would run a lot faster than what you are mentioning here on those fire roads. But you also mention dunes -- that's tough haulin for an oddy and yet yours lived. I don't understand what was going wrong, mine blew up constantly until I started running Avgas. Now they run flawless. Its just gas n go.



Perhaps you're running lean and using the higher octane to cover up the issue. I rather run rich in the dunes and run race fuel for the extra protection... Try torco fuel additive. Its better than av gas and cost less. Well it cost less here.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 99 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], bullnerd, DC, dipnadactyl, Google [Bot], jknarfal, Pilot bird, rarerat, rmesser, toby, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group