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 Post subject: 700 Rotax Pilot project
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Hi folks. I have not been here in awhile and thought I would share my latest Pilot Project. Here is a link to my Photo bucket. The pics are shown from current back to the beginning of the project. I streached the frame 6.5" to have more room for the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and exhaust. It will also give me better high speed stability. Starting to put it back together now.

http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72 ... t%20Build/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2233
Location: East Peoria IL
very nice - great work!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Looks good how much did you stretch the frame?

Running yet?

The fun factor should be real high using that Engine :-)

I am not sure I understand the trans input shaft you replaced the whole shaft?

Engine and trans are tied together and then both float as one unit like the stock Engine and trans does?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Welcome back Steve, nice rig nice shop and when its done I bet that is one hardcore machine, be nice to have a custom pipe shaped more like a pilot's, looks like the fuel tank will fit back in there too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
hoser wrote:
Looks good how much did you stretch the frame?

Thanks, I steached the frame 6 1/2". I based the dimension on leaving the front radius arm mount position in its original location for the Long travel rear suspension.
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Running yet?

Just starting to put it back together. target is to be ready for the little Sahara trip in June
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The fun factor should be real high using that Engine :-)

Yea we already put one of these in Dave S pilot. Lots of torque.
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I am not sure I understand the trans input shaft you replaced the whole shaft?

Yes it will replace the OEM shaft. We made it in two pieces to be able to remove the Team driven clutch without removing the trans. BTW the Trans lower main shaft seals and the case gaskets are no longer avalable from Honda.
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Engine and trans are tied together and then both float as one unit like the stock Engine and trans does?


The Engine and trans are seperate similar to the Sled application. Trans will be mounted semi solid in Delrin bushings and the Engine will be mounted in Skidoo rubber mounts. There will also be a torque support similar to the Sled. I wanted to have some flexibility in clutch aligment and and belt adjustment.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Hey Hare, hows it going? Thanks for the compliments. I am using a cutom pipe very similar to the Pilot pipe just a lot bigger. I had Aaon make me a dual core silenser for it to quiet it down. I will be building a custom Aluminum gas tank for it this weekend. We found that the 700 motors use's a bit more fuel than the Pilot 500 motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) so I wanted a larger tank. The custom tank will hold 6.3 gallons. If you follow the Photobucket link back I have some pics of the Exhaust and cardboard mockup for the gas tank.

Hare wrote:
Welcome back Steve, nice rig nice shop and when its done I bet that is one hardcore machine, be nice to have a custom pipe shaped more like a pilot's, looks like the fuel tank will fit back in there too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5540
Location: New Jersey
Welcome back, nice to see you posting agin here. Very impressive Pilot, good luck with it and keep uP the postings on this project!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Been working on the gas tank as of late. Almost done. Here it is mocked up for final fit.

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Hancock, Mi
Dump the TRA/Skidoo primary. They collect belt dust and need to get cleaned out, I can only imagine how bad it'll get when sand and dirt start.

It's possible to purchase a P85 cut to skidoo's crank taper. I had one. Be much easier to keep clean.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
jcode wrote:
Dump the TRA/Skidoo primary. They collect belt dust and need to get cleaned out, I can only imagine how bad it'll get when sand and dirt start.

It's possible to purchase a P85 cut to skidoo's crank taper. I had one. Be much easier to keep clean.


Actually the TRA holds up very well in the dirt and sand I seen the one on Lightspeeds Drakart literally pour sand out of the holes when he stopped and turned off the Engine, he can chime in on any problems he might have had with the TRA.

Before the TRA I seen Lightspeed beating on his Comet (102 or was it a 108) with a claw hammer (typical carpenter, snicker) out in the middle of the dunes when it locked up because of the same sand getting inside.

After witnessing the Coment VS TRA personally my vote would go to the TRA hands down, what say you Lightspeed you actually owned and used the crap out of both...

Whats a P85?

Any guess how many gallons the tank is?

Looking good keep going!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Hancock, Mi
Polaris's primary clutch. Looks like the Comet

Image

That's great it survives in the sand, but that wouldn't make me all that comfortable knowing sand was pooring out of it. I have no experience with it but have been a skidoo rider for good few years and on the skidoo forum, paying member, for about 3 or 4 years now. The P85 has better pull all the way through, the TRA tends to pull till the top end. If this is noticeable to the driver or not, not really sure, but the P85 I had pulled HARD on my long track skidoo and 800cc motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )).

The TRA, people like them because of the clicker system on them to adjust RPMs on as needed IIRC. Also the rubber dampner on them kills some of the vibration. Also lots of TRA's go for decade with no service just fine.

Just a thought I had knowing they collect dust it's inevitable it collects sand. Also pay attention to what belt you use. I'm pretty sure the 600ho and 700 motors have the Stamped clutches. The 800 and 440 race sleds have the Forged clutches. The Stamped sleeves will get grooves if use hard belts or belts meant for 800/440 sleds. How hard of a compound you can go I don't know. I just know the belts in the skidoo world can't swap down.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:03 pm
Posts: 727
I can't comment on all clutches out there but I think the TRA III that I had was light years ahead of the Comet 108 expurt and the Arctic Cat 9 tower. Mine shifted fantastic for 9 years of some hard ass driving (In my "humble" opinion! :shock: ) in mostly sand but plenty of dirt and mud. It still shifts fantastic. Not that cleaning it would have made it even better. I did finally make a aluminum cover/guard to keep 80% of the sand out since it bothered me. It got so much sand thrown at it that it actually "sand blasted" the 1 through 6 off around the adjustment nut....that's some sand.

I think a person would be a fool to run anything else then what was designed for the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) after seeing how great it was after 9 years in all that crappy riding conditions and still running like a Timex.

Tom

BTW I betcha that Odyknuck isn't going to have much of a problem with people beating him on top end......he won't be around long enough to ever find out. This thing is going to be just crazy fast.

Tom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Hancock, Mi
You got pics of that clutch cover? Interested in seeing that.

Fool not to run stock clutch? Maybe. I personally liked the p85 on my doo. It was mostly the mountain riders doing it anyhow. Cooler running and easier to change weights on was main reasons. Frankly neither of which would be much concern in a cart. Was just concerned about it holding sand but if it works, it works!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Hoser I calculated the Tank volume to 6.2 Gallons give or take a quart. The TRA clutch is a no brainer to use. They work quite well, designed for the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and can be bought on Ebay everyday for 50 to 100 bucks. If it wears out then I will simply replace it with another and move on. I suspect I will have a spare in my tool box of parts lol. FL700nut has been running one on his 700 Pilot with no issues other than normal wear and tare. I am running a team (Polaris driven) and may have some pitch mismatch however I was told by Team it would not be a problem. One is 12 degrees and the other is 13 degrees or something like that. And yes I suspect the Buggy to be pretty fast and is one of the reasons I did the frame streach for high speed stability.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:36 am
Posts: 1345
Location: Benson, NC
Really nice so far, keep the pics coming. I love reading projects like this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Weekend Updates, Completed Trans assembly with new 2 piece Driven clutch shaft and Gas Tank.
Installation complete.
http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm72 ... t%20Build/

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Is the idler bearing support for the driven out put shaft mounted to the frame or the Engine trans asembly. I can not tell form the pic. If mounted to the frame is there any wiggly room as the trans /Engine flexes on the Engine/trans rubber mounts. Do you feel this may cause stress on the shaft as it flexes and excert side load on the bearings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
It is mounted to the frame, however I replaced the stock rubber trans mounts with Delrin/steel inner sleeves and there is no play in the trans. I will be making a Torque arm from the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) to the trans to also help aleviate any flex from motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) torque. It is currently in the design phase. It will be very similar to how it's done in sled using the same spot on the back of the Engine case.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
Project Updates:

motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) tork stop assembly

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motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) tork stop assembly Installed

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Image

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New Laser cut Rotor Installed

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Long Travel Front suspension Installed

Image

Image

Exhaust System Installed

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
You seem to have much more room than I have with the 670. Is the 700 that much more compact? That much more room in the Pilot vs Odyssey? More offset to the left in your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) placement?..Interesting, and nice work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
DaveM wrote:
You seem to have much more room than I have with the 670. Is the 700 that much more compact? That much more room in the Pilot vs Odyssey? More offset to the left in your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) placement?..Interesting, and nice work.


You did notice he stretched the frame didnt you?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 187
The 670 and 700 are very close in size. As Hoser said I streached the frame that not only made it longer , the natural splay of the frame made it 2 1/2" wider in the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) compartment


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1226
Location: Chicago
this is badass! looking keep up the good work!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
It was the width at the Engine that I was looking at and comparing to mine. No way is a tank sitting beside my motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) like that. I'm right at the frame rail with the recoil.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
DaveM wrote:
It was the width at the Engine that I was looking at and comparing to mine. No way is a tank sitting beside my motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) like that. I'm right at the frame rail with the recoil.


The tank is notched around the Engine the Engine is not as narrow as you think, I am sure he can take a quick measurement and give you the width.


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