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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22521
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
hoser wrote:
redskinman wrote:
hoser wrote:
redskinman wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
redskinman wrote:
well I've got everything together to do a leakdown test but I cant get my clutch off to hook the hose up to crankcase.The clutch has only been on there 2 weeks,don't know why its so hard to get off.Ive used my electric impact,my air impact,borrowed another impact,no luck.Ive put some grease in the shaft for pressure and that didnt work.Someone suggested putting brake fluid in the hole but I havent tried that yet


when you installed it you did use the correct bolt and thread pitch? It should pop right off, especially if it has not been on for a great length of time-it is not cross threaded in the crank? is it?, you installed it by hand them torqued it with a torque wrench right?


yes and yes,the main bolt is out,it just wont pop off.I have push pin in and its not popping off.I'll tackle it again wed,I'll shove some more grease in the hole and try again


Yes more grease, you have to grease it then crank the bolt in to pack the grease then grease then bolt then grease then bolt, keep doing it until it wont take no more then the last time put teflon tape on the threads to keep the grease in.

If you have a trapped air bubble then the grease cant compress.

Why you pulling the clutch again?


Im pulling the clutch to have access to crankcase vent to do leakdown test

hoser,have you checked out the pics of stix's crankshaft he'll sell me yet?
thanks
http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopi ... 8&start=75


Your just removing the hose so you can pressure test the Engine?

Just remove the other end of the hose on the fuel pump to pressure test no need to pull the clutch, you want to test it at the fuel pump end anyways so you can verify that that hose and its connections is not leaking.

Any wet spots around the JB welds?

I cant see anything in the pics they are way too small, not sure what I am suppose to look for, Stix knows how to check the crank we already been through this with turbos, if he thinks its ok he can ship and I can look it over when it gets here.... that's the final test anyways, I think the check list I gave Stix is good enough that if followed should hopefully prevent shipping a paper weight :-)


I have 2 threads bookmarked on home computer about leakdown testing,one putting air in crankcase behind clutch,and one putting in air thru intake{which I cant do with my setup} if I leave hose on crankcase and fuelpump,where do i put the air in at?

havent checked for wetspots around jb weld yet,will tommorrow

I will have Stix send to crankshaft
thanks


Remove the line from the fuel pump and put the air into the Engine their, you wont be pressure testing the fuel pump.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
George! Keep your head up! We have all been thru this, and yes it is aggrivating, but in the long run worth the learning experience! I promise there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
good news and bad news.Good news is found the problems and easily fixed,bad news is they were easily fixed!!
its bad news they were easily fixed because I probably just ruined my top end and it could have been avoided.Did a leakdown test,found hole in hose from crankcase to fuel pump.Looks like it was a little too long and rubbed up against the belt and put a hole in it.So replaced hose,did leakdown test again,didnt hold so I took off Engine gaurd on bottom of buggy to get a better look at where it was jb welded and guess what was laying in Engine gaurd? my drainplug to Engine balancer.So put drainplug back in and refilled balancer oil,did another leakdown test and it held 10 lbs for 10 minutes.
Oh and still cant get my clutch off.I slid the crankcase hose on but I cant get clamp on it with clutch in the way.I have filled that hole with so much grease that I can barely push bolt in against push pin.I borrowed the neighbors air compressor because it goess up to 130 psi and mine only goes to 110 and that didnt work either.Next step is to try and find someone with an impact that has better ft lbs of torque


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1228
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
good news and bad news.Good news is found the problems and easily fixed,bad news is they were easily fixed!!
its bad news they were easily fixed because I probably just ruined my top end and it could have been avoided.Did a leakdown test,found hole in hose from crankcase to fuel pump.Looks like it was a little too long and rubbed up against the belt and put a hole in it.So replaced hose,did leakdown test again,didnt hold so I took off Engine gaurd on bottom of buggy to get a better look at where it was jb welded and guess what was laying in Engine gaurd? my drainplug to Engine balancer.So put drainplug back in and refilled balancer oil,did another leakdown test and it held 10 lbs for 10 minutes.
Oh and still cant get my clutch off.I slid the crankcase hose on but I cant get clamp on it with clutch in the way.I have filled that hole with so much grease that I can barely push bolt in against push pin.I borrowed the neighbors air compressor because it goess up to 130 psi and mine only goes to 110 and that didnt work either.Next step is to try and find someone with an impact that has better ft lbs of torque


is the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out of the buggy? if so, tip it on its side, fill clutch hole with water or brake fluid to the top, teflontape the puller bolt REALLY good. and hit it with the impact. i have gotten clutch off this way(it was bending stock puller! but the water worked!)


another tip.. try whacking the puller bolt straight on with a rubber mallet or dead blow(once it is torqued down nicely if it doesnt pop off automatically) to break the pressure on the taper.
I'm not sure if whacking it is recommended(i only did it on a "practice motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? ))") so i will need input from others before you try.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Tpreed wrote:
redskinman wrote:
good news and bad news.Good news is found the problems and easily fixed,bad news is they were easily fixed!!
its bad news they were easily fixed because I probably just ruined my top end and it could have been avoided.Did a leakdown test,found hole in hose from crankcase to fuel pump.Looks like it was a little too long and rubbed up against the belt and put a hole in it.So replaced hose,did leakdown test again,didnt hold so I took off Engine gaurd on bottom of buggy to get a better look at where it was jb welded and guess what was laying in Engine gaurd? my drainplug to Engine balancer.So put drainplug back in and refilled balancer oil,did another leakdown test and it held 10 lbs for 10 minutes.
Oh and still cant get my clutch off.I slid the crankcase hose on but I cant get clamp on it with clutch in the way.I have filled that hole with so much grease that I can barely push bolt in against push pin.I borrowed the neighbors air compressor because it goess up to 130 psi and mine only goes to 110 and that didnt work either.Next step is to try and find someone with an impact that has better ft lbs of torque


is the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out of the buggy? if so, tip it on its side, fill clutch hole with water or brake fluid to the top, teflontape the puller bolt REALLY good. and hit it with the impact. i have gotten clutch off this way(it was bending stock puller! but the water worked!)


no its not out of buggy,that's why I didnt try your brake fluid method,but thanks anyway


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 1228
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
Tpreed wrote:
redskinman wrote:
good news and bad news.Good news is found the problems and easily fixed,bad news is they were easily fixed!!
its bad news they were easily fixed because I probably just ruined my top end and it could have been avoided.Did a leakdown test,found hole in hose from crankcase to fuel pump.Looks like it was a little too long and rubbed up against the belt and put a hole in it.So replaced hose,did leakdown test again,didnt hold so I took off Engine gaurd on bottom of buggy to get a better look at where it was jb welded and guess what was laying in Engine gaurd? my drainplug to Engine balancer.So put drainplug back in and refilled balancer oil,did another leakdown test and it held 10 lbs for 10 minutes.
Oh and still cant get my clutch off.I slid the crankcase hose on but I cant get clamp on it with clutch in the way.I have filled that hole with so much grease that I can barely push bolt in against push pin.I borrowed the neighbors air compressor because it goess up to 130 psi and mine only goes to 110 and that didnt work either.Next step is to try and find someone with an impact that has better ft lbs of torque


is the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) out of the buggy? if so, tip it on its side, fill clutch hole with water or brake fluid to the top, teflontape the puller bolt REALLY good. and hit it with the impact. i have gotten clutch off this way(it was bending stock puller! but the water worked!)


no its not out of buggy,that's why I didnt try your brake fluid method,but thanks anyway



the puller isnt bending though is it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
if your talking about the push pin then no its not bending


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
how long has the clutch been on there for? it should just pop right off, I do it with my hand torque wrench,or a 18.8 volt SNAP-ON 1/2 DRIVE GUN,which is way below the air gun you using.I can't seem to understand why that thing will not come off, is it straight on the crankshaft?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Mudbogger wrote:
how long has the clutch been on there for? it should just pop right off, I do it with my hand torque wrench,or a 18.8 volt SNAP-ON 1/2 DRIVE GUN,which is way below the air gun you using.I can't seem to understand why that thing will not come off, is it straight on the crankshaft?


its been on there 2 weeks! I cant understand it either.Yes its straight,it spins straight,not sure how you could put it on crooked?Ive given up trying to get it off.I just tried again and it wouldn't come off.Ive borrowed all the impacts I can find.next step wii be taking buggy to tire store to use their impacts on it. I know sometimes i get a brainfart so lets go over what Im doing again.
Ive removed long clutch bolt that holds clutch on.Filled clutch hole with grease,then stick in push pin in hole,then screw in removal bolt and go to town.Am I missing something?
I'm not going to mess with it again till it absolutely has to come off


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
The push pin is long enough correct? Have you used it before, sometime they can get mixed up with other pins for other clutches(taken from personal experience there)? :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Mudbogger wrote:
The push pin is long enough correct? Have you used it before, sometime they can get mixed up with other pins for other clutches(taken from personal experience there)? :shock:


lets start from the very very beginning.Bought this clutch off ebay,did not come with removal tool.Bought removal tool off ebay.I needed to take clutch off to send cases to hoser.Tried to get clutch off with ebay removal tool,didnt work,hoser says it was the wrong bolt,heres his post on it:

"Got your bottom end in the mail got a chance to look at it yesterday, I finally got the drive clutch off the crank you used up about everything I had to get that sucker, tools, bolts, patients, experience etc.

The first thing I had to do was remove that push pin so I could see if the threads could be saved that pin just did not want to come out the grease had a hold on it, after flushing out the grease with brake cleaner and compressed air I was able to get the pin to move then was able to get a magnet to hook on and pull it out, once out I got out my taps and found a tap to match the threads, it was a 9/16 fine thread the bolt you tried to use was coarse thread, the threads are in pretty bad shape, I took the tap and threaded the hole in deeper then did some measuring to figure out how much to cut off your push pin so the new push bolt could reach the new threads, then I had to find another bolt to use after digging through my last chance spare parts bucket (5 gallon bucket of bolts I have collected over the past 25 years) I found a 9/16 fine thread bolt but the bolt was not threaded far enough to use all the new threads I created so I had to take a die nut and thread more of the bolt.

Once the threads was fixed up as best I could fix them I filled the clutch up with grease again, pit in the push pin and cranked in the bolt until tight by hand, then used a wrench to tighten it as tight as I could by hand then I put a socket and impact wrench on it, crossed my fingers and said a little prayer before pulling the trigger on the impact gun, presto it popped right off.


Here is the old bolt the shorten push pin and the new bolt. "

so hoser shortened push pin with his new bolt so that's what I am using now.Hoser used it to get clutch off before.

Oh shit,it just hit me,like I said i can be so stupid sometimes.This is a different bottom end and im using the shortened pin made for the other bottom end hoser has,Im such an idiot.Guess I need to get another push pin and bolt,who wants to send me one I can borrow? I think the last one I bought was like 30 bucks on ebay and it was the wrong thread on the bolts,its a 94c clutch


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22521
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
The push pin is long enough correct? Have you used it before, sometime they can get mixed up with other pins for other clutches(taken from personal experience there)? :shock:


lets start from the very very beginning.Bought this clutch off ebay,did not come with removal tool.Bought removal tool off ebay.I needed to take clutch off to send cases to hoser.Tried to get clutch off with ebay removal tool,didnt work,hoser says it was the wrong bolt,heres his post on it:

"Got your bottom end in the mail got a chance to look at it yesterday, I finally got the drive clutch off the crank you used up about everything I had to get that sucker, tools, bolts, patients, experience etc.

The first thing I had to do was remove that push pin so I could see if the threads could be saved that pin just did not want to come out the grease had a hold on it, after flushing out the grease with brake cleaner and compressed air I was able to get the pin to move then was able to get a magnet to hook on and pull it out, once out I got out my taps and found a tap to match the threads, it was a 9/16 fine thread the bolt you tried to use was coarse thread, the threads are in pretty bad shape, I took the tap and threaded the hole in deeper then did some measuring to figure out how much to cut off your push pin so the new push bolt could reach the new threads, then I had to find another bolt to use after digging through my last chance spare parts bucket (5 gallon bucket of bolts I have collected over the past 25 years) I found a 9/16 fine thread bolt but the bolt was not threaded far enough to use all the new threads I created so I had to take a die nut and thread more of the bolt.

Once the threads was fixed up as best I could fix them I filled the clutch up with grease again, pit in the push pin and cranked in the bolt until tight by hand, then used a wrench to tighten it as tight as I could by hand then I put a socket and impact wrench on it, crossed my fingers and said a little prayer before pulling the trigger on the impact gun, presto it popped right off.


Here is the old bolt the shorten push pin and the new bolt. "

so hoser shortened push pin with his new bolt so that's what I am using now.Hoser used it to get clutch off before.

Oh shit,it just hit me,like I said i can be so stupid sometimes.This is a different bottom end and im using the shortened pin made for the other bottom end hoser has,Im such an idiot.Guess I need to get another push pin and bolt,who wants to send me one I can borrow? I think the last one I bought was like 30 bucks on ebay and it was the wrong thread on the bolts,its a 94c clutch


The bolt is threading into the clutch not the crank, you use that same bolt and push pin on any bottom end long as its the same clutch, it wont work on another clutch unless you tap the hole in the clutch to accept the longer threaded bolt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
yeah I started thinking about that after my last post,now i'm looking twice as stupid :-)
So that brings me back to square one,same clutch,same tools you used,so I don't know why its not coming off


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22521
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
yeah I started thinking about that after my last post,now i'm looking twice as stupid :-)
So that brings me back to square one,same clutch,same tools you used,so I don't know why its not coming off


You try the stronger impact?

How much air pressure are you using with the impact, short hose? Oiled the air tool lately?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
hoser wrote:
redskinman wrote:
yeah I started thinking about that after my last post,now i'm looking twice as stupid :-)
So that brings me back to square one,same clutch,same tools you used,so I don't know why its not coming off


You try the stronger impact?

How much air pressure are you using with the impact, short hose? Oiled the air tool lately?

Ive borrowed another impact,but I don't know if its any stronger.My compressor has a high of 110 psi,borrowed my neighbors that goes up to 130 psi.I have an electric impact that feels like it does better than the air ones but it doesnt work either.But like I said,Im done messing with it till I have to,and right now I don't have to.I managed to get clamp on crankcase hose with clutch on so Im done untill this clutch has problems or this lower end goes out.Oh and it was a long hose,and air impact could probably use oiling


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