Where is video 6?

When that happens pull the choke, if pulling the choke makes it idle then its not getting enough gas in the idle circuit, try turning the air screw in a little on each carb, if pulling the choke does not help try turning the air screw out if it does not respond to the air screws you either don't have the slides in the carbs set high enough or the slow jets are wrong.

You adjusted the carbs after you finalized all the exhaust and intake systems and with the Engine up to full temp?

oh I meant the vid post last night 6 min long of me being a tool doing slides...
i will try this recommendation thanks
I did not dial the carbs again after full temp... that would help ....LOL

Another video... this one of start up
the red toggle is for ignition... green is for charging system
blue is the fan and yellow is lights.. It is like starting a big CR or KX 500
turn it over briefly with out lighting it and then ad some spark and on she comes... O do not have a primer on the Engine like the sled had...
I do not usually restrict the exhaust with my hand.... just trying to show how tight the exhaust system is... I think it is still rich though... it was 30 degrees this day and I could shut the chokes off pretty quick... It is still a work of love (at this point) thankfully
Steve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bKgSzcUtoI

Do you have any areas that are free of snow/ice where you can do a idle to WOT (Wide Open Throttle) snap of the throttle under load - in gear. Does it bog and die out or bog and pull through? Gravity feed with a fuel pump or just gravity feed?

I do not have an area like that where traction could be had...
They are set for gravity feed and I am not using fuel pump... I had 38mm VMs and now I put in 38mm TMs flat side type... Should they be supplied via pump and if so do I have to modify them?
I have a car gas filter that will support over 200 hp or so... and the filter is never less than 3/4 full so far when running

If the gravity feed is to much for the needle and seat, then you could be force feeding it fuel. If you have a fuel pump, then it may be worth it to just hang it off the side and plumb it up quick to see how it reacts. If these carbs are completely new, then you have some tuning work ahead of you.

The carbs are setup for gravity so it should be ok for this setup...? They are for Moto X bikes (the carbs)
I do have alot of jetting to do... The sled had 22 PJ i think and I am now up to 45 PJ and it is 1/2 to 2 turns out on the screw...
Time will tell.. need spring to come so I can do some passes and see how close I am...
Regards

Look for a primary clutch spring from a Formula 500. Made a world of difference on my 670. Brought the clutch engagement down to 3500rpm. the 9:1 gearbox allows the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) to pull through it.
Just something to keep in mind if you find your rpm's and fuel consumption little high like I did.

And put a wide Sharpie mark on the inboard primary sheave where you can see it. This will let you know how much(or little) of the primary is being used.

In my experience..the TRA primaty and the stock Odyssey secondary don't compliment each other.
Primary is too big, or secondary is too small, however way you choose to see it.

Thanks for the info...did you see the vid of the clutches running up a couple of posts?
Please check it and let me know what you think.... the primary and secondary appeared to be used... but I guess I will know more with a load and some traction


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmSqAxvinu0

Steve

So a lower engagement = less fuel consumption???
Mine engages at 4500 on the triple eee 500cc xc polaris Engine... I would love to get better milage in my races... Less pit time faster lap times more wins...

Turbo I like your question....what kind of racing are u doing that you want to save fuel? isnt your foot in it all the time anyway?
don't you want the sweetest/best clutch engagement rpm to minimize wheel spin and to get from turn to turn faster...
I can see how a lower engagement on the primary would save fuel for trail duty.... but in a race?
Regards

Most of my racing will be long distance desert course... AND yea I still want to be quick from point A to B, but I still want to have enough fuel left over to make it to point C...
At my last race I went thru 3.3 gallons on the first day in 22-24 miles. And the second day I went thru 3.5 gallons in 28 miles with a better set of lap times...
with the pilot I have been able to go 37 miles in about the same amount of gas...
The twin carbs are surely going thru twice the fuel??? Most of the races have pit stops half way thru the course, so I just need more time to stop and get gas several times a race...
So yea if I can get better milage it would be worth the effort...

The lower engagement rpm also dropped the low and mid speed cruising rpm, which helped some on the total fuel consumption. It still got terrible mileage but the spring helped some and made it much nicer to drive. The issue I had was the top end seemed to run out of clutch and it was all in by 7000rpm. Beyond that the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) just reved without any significant gain in speed. Now it still went 55mph at ~7500rpm which was fast enough, and I had alot of fun with it the way it was, but I feel I was wasting some of the 670's potential for sure. The clutching just wasn't optimum. I would always see dirt on the top 1/3 of the primary sheaves , which to me means that I was not using it. I theorized that either the secondary was keeping the belt from getting to the top of the primary because of the size difference, or belt was being pulled so far down in the secondary that there was no grip left and it just slipped, so I just never got to the top of the primary.
If your racing at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) all the time , I'm not sure you'll see a mileage gain.
I ride trails and forest access roads, so long high speed runs are minimal. I would get about 25 miles on a 3 1/2 gallon tank. My buddies 660 Raptor powered buggy only gave up a little bit in initial acceleration, had no trouble staying right on my tail, had more top end, and got 3 to 4 times the fuel milage. (Hence my switch to a 4 stroke)

I'm no expert on clutching by any means. But I do know that getting it right requires some trial and error. And if you look at the size of the secondary on a typical 500cc plus sled, they are much bigger than the Odyssey's. There has to be some benifit to running matched components.

I agree with the issue of lots of trial and error on my part trying to figure the clutching setup out...the belt does come all the way up on the prime and all the way in on the second at this point when the machine is on stands... but time will tell if on hills and just under load with traction if the shifts are correct or it the primary just sucks it through the secondary and so on...
I would like to know it anyone has had a different spring made for the Pilot second...
G.O.

Fuel mileage will never be comparable to a 4 stroke. If your getting close to 8 mpg then you are doing very good. The pilot set up gets about 6 (500cc) Briggs gets 8 (700cc) My sled gets 7 on groomed trails and about 4 on powder (600cc) If you put a softer spring in the primary you will decrease the engagement rpm and let you move along at slow speeds with less rpm. The major downfall with a soft spring is belt squeeze. You will slip the belt when trying to accelerate from a dead stop, on hill climbs, etc. I had no luck finding a spring for the stock pilot driven. The increase in the sled motors power would just suck the belt right down in the driven killing the engines performance, poor back shifting characteristics and making clutch tuning more work than it should have been. I ended up getting a non splined shaft for the pilot trans and mounted the 790 clutch to it. Made a huge difference right off the bat. Now I can go back to the primary clutch and work that for 8,000rpm knowing that the driven is not going to allow the cvt system to upshift to quickly.

Where does one get a non splined Pilot trans shaft?? I would love to mount that big ski doo second on there...
Thanks for the info

I really had no issue with the bottom end performance. No problem taking off with both tires spinning, zero bogging, good low speed control though the tight trails, and I could climb loose gravel and sand hills that the others couldn't get up because I could keep the wheel speed up and use the power. The belt wasn't slipping on the primary as far as I could tell. The light spring made a big difference for the better in overall driveability from the stock 670 Mach1 spring that was in it at first. The 10:1 gearbox eases the load on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) compared to a 3:1 (typical) sled chaincase, so a change to the primary doesn't react the same as it would on a sled. IMO.
We are all kind of on our own to figure out the best combination for these things for the way you want it to work. I think I payed $10 for the Fomula 500 spring and ramps(I did'nt get around to changing the ramps), cheap, easy and well worth it.



If I had chosen to stay with, or if I ever go back to, a 2 stroke sled motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) I will be using a sled secondary, I believe it is the right way to go to best use the power that the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) will put out.
But as i said above, my buggy was a blast to drive and I had had alot of fun with it just the way it was. It was only on the top end, 50mph+ that it wasn't happy.

Where does one get a non splined Pilot trans shaft?? I would love to mount that big ski doo second on there...
Thanks for the info[/quote]


Dan Roberto at RPM was making some a while back. They seem to be a rare hard to find part. Some of the stuff I read said that you can not fit a larger diameter clutch on a pilot trans as it will hit the CV boot/joint. I don't know for sure - didn't try it myself, but the added reduction of the pilot trans vs a sled chaincase shouldn't require the added reduction made by the larger diameter driven. The smaller 790 is supposed to open further allowing more top end speed - supposedly. I can tell you that both my briggs and pilot with the 790 have both been significantly faster on the top end, flat dirt roads, with the Engine turning less rpm than peak power (7300rpm), compared to a pilot.

Maybe call Dan and see if he would make a shaft for you? From your previous videos your pilot looked like it had plenty of get up.
Like Dave stated, every set up is unique, your torque curve will be much different than mine, weight etc. are all going to be different.

Worked on bug today
Got it running well... strong even idle at 1800 rpm or so per manual...
Cools very well after I bleed the cooling system.. had lots of air @ first...
Took her on asphalt and could not get her to hook up for a good 15 feet or so.. lots of fun... Plenty of torque so far..Come on spring come on!!!!!!!!!
The manual says the sled primary which I am running is adjustable in increments of 200 rpm... must look into this closer.. this adjustment is without changing parts...
Regards

Go oddy
don't post much but have been following your thread.Good work!
Im at the end of a 583 swap also. The tra clutch is pretty cool it can be adjusted in rpm increments of 200 up or down to keep you at peak hp@????rpm.The scews on the levers have numbers 1-6 3 being factory once you know your hp/rpm for your Engine do a long wide open run see what rpm your at
and adjust as needed. Keep up the good work (pics and vids)

If it would be too much trouble I would love to see some of your build...
What does tra stand for? Thanks for the kind words regarding my build... I have enjoyed it all in all...
G.O.

I believe that tra is just the brand of clutch that ski-doo uses like a comet.

Thanks for the info...

Sorry no pics (I stink at documenting things) I hoping to have it all done by this week.Want to compare it to my 540 fl250 and my fully built fl350. Should be some good racing.I will snap some pics this week end if we make it out.

First off Card Counter no pics of the build... Come on now.. I think I speak for all. we love pics LOL
I picked up the button to cable choke change kits and double pull choke cable 26 bucks complete.. The CVT will bite me sooner or later if I keep reaching over the system... cannot have that... OUCH!
Regards