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 Post subject: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Well i bought this Pilot back in November when the snow layed heavy on the ground thinking it would be ideal for a winter project - fool me! couldnt even open the door on the garage never mind work in there as the temp dropped down to -19 / -20 deg, anyways the pilot has had some work done before i got it, its been sandblasted and dipped then given a powdercoating, also the frame has been strengthened at the rear and front has been moded for the long travel and steering modification so i will not take credit for this but does stand as a good starting point.

Finally got a start on it but the progress will be slow due to new baby, 2 year old and also the lack of funds to throw at her (also never done this before so any help will be appreiciated)

Well started on the transmission first which was in a poor state, leaking from both final drive seals and looked as if it had gone down with the Titanic


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File comment: Gave the transmition a good clean and drained the oil - only 200ml in it and poor looking
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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Welcome to the site. I've never seen a fianl seal that ugly. Is there any play in the final? I'm glad you were able to remove the axles!!! This is the place to be if you need some help. Pictures are priceless, so keep posting them. Parts are getting harder to find, but i'll bet you'll be able to get what you need. Looking forward to seeing your project progress.


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Seals arrived and various other odds and sods, found it very difficult getting the oil seal for the final drive with the metal collar but got there in the end

Next was to remove clutch and split the cases to what you all call CSI it? (is that right?) looking at the seal and the lack of oil i did think the worst
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Suprised to see that all was looking good in there - bearings were even in good condition, no wear noticed to any of the gears so that poor seal had still done its job after 21 or so years!
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Next was to remove bearings - so casings warmed up and out they popped, no play and measured fine so these were to go back in after a good clean and re-oiling session
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Sorry if too many pics - just say the word

New seals fitted, old gasket cleaned off and its time for reassembly - original Honda gasket set going in it but dare i say it im going to use the stainless bolt kit that i got from the states due to very poor condition and missing bolts etc across the whole machine
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Thants it for now - but having problems with the driven face spring - size wise - new original out the packet is onlt 129mm in length and old one taken out is 151.28 and the service limit states 140mm - puzzled to say the least - any ideas?

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
rmesser wrote:
Welcome to the site. I've never seen a fianl seal that ugly. Is there any play in the final? I'm glad you were able to remove the axles!!! This is the place to be if you need some help. Pictures are priceless, so keep posting them. Parts are getting harder to find, but i'll bet you'll be able to get what you need. Looking forward to seeing your project progress.


Thanks for the kind words - i have seen other builds on here and been egerly waiting to see the next stage of the build so i thought i would stump up and share the experience that others have given me - Rich


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
IMO
Take them POS stainless bolts out throw them in the trash reinstall the OEM bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Is the clutch stock?


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Hoser, are the stainless bolts that bad? whats wrong with them do they stretch or do they seize up? (when fitting them ive used copper grease if that's any good)

Mudbogger - yes the clutch is standard to my knowledge but from the old one removed to the new its well over 20mm shorter and 11mm less than service limit that the manual states - ive re-built it now but will be unable to try it till the builds finished, there again if i have time i may swap over to the other pilot and see how it performs (theres a thought)


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Richard Hartley wrote:
Hoser, are the stainless bolts that bad? whats wrong with them do they stretch or do they seize up? (when fitting them ive used copper grease if that's any good)

Mudbogger - yes the clutch is standard to my knowledge but from the old one removed to the new its well over 20mm shorter and 11mm less than service limit that the manual states - ive re-built it now but will be unable to try it till the builds finished, there again if i have time i may swap over to the other pilot and see how it performs (theres a thought)



Cheap low grade shit that was not engineered for the use.

What was wrong with your old bolts they proved to work perfectly for 22 years now you want to mess with success?

Look at the bottom of the heads of the OEM bolts, look at the bottom of the heads of the POS stainless crap you installed, even with the washer you don't have the clamping forces as the OEM.


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Well transmission now complete with new clutch plates and springs - plates measured ok but springs were past service limit so while apart i thought it wise to re-new the lot
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Installed transmission finally (taken weeks to source parts - always seem to be waiting for somthing!)
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Next was to give the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) a clean up, tidy wireing with small repair needed were it had been rubbing the frame, then covered in flexable conduit to try and stop future chaffing, motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) has been rebuilt previously, bored, honed, piston and rings (not yet run). Also fitted new reeds & intake as there were signs of cracks and also had aged / baked hard / dried out? over the years, fitted two gaskets to the intake as a precaution (may be not needed but makes me feel better?)
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Another lump out of the way (off the floor anyway) Engine bolted in at last (Hoser cleaned up original bolts that could be saved and installed that marry the tranny to Engine)
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Re-built the driven but this is the one with the spring issue (too short straight out of the packet!) but still im going to give it a go and report back when finished - not the end of the world if i need to replace again - hey ho
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Next job is to look at the wireing harness (rats nest) - this could take some time as its a bit rough, also need to run the wireing for the Vapour Dash - anyway knacked so calling it a day

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:28 pm
Posts: 68
Richard
Looks good.
Be carefull copper and aluminium don't mix well.
I would use standard never seize or grease.
Eagles 17


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
what kinda pliers are hanging from the tranny clutch???


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
EAGLES17 wrote:
Richard
Looks good.
Be carefull copper and aluminium don't mix well.
I would use standard never seize or grease.
Eagles 17


Thanks for the advice - never even crossed me mind! I tried to get some never seize from Halfords today but they only have copper grease, i will keep looking though and remember for future, Cheers

Turbotexas wrote:
what kinda pliers are hanging from the tranny clutch???


The best type...........................borrowed ones!, no i think they are a Burnelli multi holding tool, works on clutches etc also, they are like a mole grip handle so you can apply pressure if required (worked a treat)


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Hey - richard - I see 2 reed gaskets in you picture- why 2 I only remeber one gasket (Hope i'm not going crazy). I look at the parts diagram and only see 1. just curious.

Don't you hate waiting on parts. Looks like you are doing a good job - keep it up!


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Aye up - rmesser,

your not going mad its (i think) the gasket that fits the ATC and old CR modesl for the reed cage, i have been told its good practice to fit one (i don't know really!) but anyway its in there, i cant see it being a problem as it doesnt obstruct the opening and may improve the seal?

Always seem to be waiting for something or have trouble finding what i need!

Back brake looks poor, missing hand brake and the parking arrangement on the rear caliper also missing - don't think you can get them anymore? can anyone help???

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Well its time to have a look at the pilot again (not a great deal done over past 2 years!). I have been painting and only had the petrol tank left to paint but noticed that this had been leaking from were mud and crap had been stuck behind the plastic guard, 3in sq. area pin holed, I have had the tank repaired and also sourced another in the meantime just in case I need it.

HERE comes the BUT..... I was just thinking - What about the Farr Offroad kit with one of the Rotax engines? (wanting to make it road legal in future and be able to keep up with traffic so I can ride out to the local lanes etc). Also then have a spare Engine for the standard pilot if and when required.

Really could do with some advice on which Engine will be good and what problems can occur with installation, i'm asking this now due to thinking the petrol tank wont fit with the rotax sat in the frame as the 1st issue to overcome. After reading various posts recently it seems the 583 could be the one?

Also what is the wiring like to figure out, throttle cable etc, do I need a larger radiator? does it need relocating? and any other issues I need to be aware of?

Any advice will be appreciated cheers Rich


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Rich def go the rotax route mate!
Hard to explain the feeling,but once you've yee harr'd in a sled powered Pilot,you think WHY did'nt I do this earlier?
It's chalk and cheese diff,IF you think you enjoy yourself in a std Pilot,get ready for sore smilie cheeks,face and downunder :shock: when you do the sled conversion.
I would never go back to std Pilot.The fun factor is 10 fold.

Manny from FARRrrr,does great work,nice bloke,use his stuff with confidence,but I'd be going the later cylinder reed valved sled mowtors Vs rotary valve induction.
More room/easier to get the carbs up higher to clearance the trans.

On the radiator,NO option,std Pilot is a no go.Not only are the inlet and outlet spigots too small,but just not the capacity there to handle all the extra heat produced from more Whorespower.
From memory the Pilot rad has 5/8-15mm spigots? The sleds have 20-25-30mm hoses,to carry the extra coolant volume needed to deal with the extra heat.
You want to run the sled mowtors around 55-60C,that's their optimal power producing temps.Any higher and they actually lose HP/1C increase.
Get yourself a double pass rad,they are the most efficient I have used.In my racing,the FL800 is at around 63C for 130HP.The Drak's 600cc-100HP with the orig Drak OEM std type rad was at 93C for 100HP! :shock: Says it all does'nt it?
Good luck mate.


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
bugeye59 wrote:
Rich def go the rotax route mate!
Hard to explain the feeling,but once you've yee harr'd in a sled powered Pilot,you think WHY did'nt I do this earlier?
It's chalk and cheese diff,IF you think you enjoy yourself in a std Pilot,get ready for sore smilie cheeks,face and downunder :shock: when you do the sled conversion.


Haha............once you've yee harr'd!

SOLD - Yep this is going to be a winter project then, I had a couple of rides with Lee in the UK with his FL800 and it left me standing, looking forward to the smile factor!

Which are the reed valve motors? whats the cc / model numbers?

I did think that the standard rad would be no good so can I just use a double pass car rad that's small enough for the frame or isn't it as simple as that?


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
If you go with the farr kit it comes with watercraft carbs and intake so you don't have any fitment issues. the 583 will be more then enough power. Everybody is using a honda civic radiator and a spun aluminum tank.


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 Post subject: Re: 89 Pilot revival
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 am
Posts: 27
Location: East Yorkshire UK
Thanks for the info but unfortunately the Pilot requires a lot of sorting out so I will have to pull my horns in at the moment (it will be to follow though!)

Well fitted rear end and found that the upper arms don't fit the frame mounts square, this is due to the fame having a slight knock at the rear but enough so the arm is touching the frame (farthest mount), this in turn has also thrown out the geometry for the lower link rods - need to have some custom made (may even buy a welder and have a go) haha

Fitted the LT front end with Yamaha shocks and this seems high - around 14 1/4 inch ground clearance and a little stiff as a 1st impression.

Steering was next and when fitted there is too much play in the rose joints (heim) - will replace all

Fuel tank fitted and rad - all plumbed up

Exhaust fitted (big gun) - will I need to re-jet standard carb for the after market exhaust?

Small ally dash made with Trail Tech Vapor installed - all wires run within harness and fitted new flexible cable sheathing.

Next up a bit more painting / seat frame / battery box / reverse light bracket and me thinks that's it for paint

cheers Rich


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