Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png PilotOdyssey.com V2.0   
It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:34 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:51 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Couple pics of a swing set steering setup,bigger car but same idea.
Maybe you can get some ideas.

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
never thought of trying to mount it that way..will see what kind of room i have and see whats going to work best.

if i go with the original method, how would i go about finding where to put the inner hole. or will it make that much of a difference


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:03 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
I wouldn't mount it vertical like that pic,its just for mounting ideas,the way you have it is fine.

You said it didnt look like it was turning enough?
Is there room for the spindle to turn farther with out the tie rod attached?
If so,you can use that extra little bit by changing the ratio from your inner "tie rod" that attaches to your steering yoke,and the outer tie rod that goes to your spindle by moving the "inner" hole closer to the pivot on the "bump steer" mount.

I'll try to draw a pic. :-)
Here you go,qiuck sketch,yours will not look excactly like this,just to make a point.
See if you understand it.It uses your idea for the tie rod mount"flag".
See where it says "change this distance",that will make your outer tie rod travel farther.
You can figure out how far by doing some quick tests,move the spindle to max turn,then move the yolk to max turn and take some measurments.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
any reason you wonldnt mount it vertically like the pic..seems like it would be easier, then i could get rid of the one ball joint and just go with to heims there and it would never bind.

the pic, i am changing the distance from the pivot bolt to the "change this distance hole" so making it shorter will give more steering, is that right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:47 am 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
If you have the room,I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Yes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
well i quickly made up a new bracket. still no bushings or anything yet. but i mounted it vertical like that photo and i think it might work pretty good. this was just a mock up again so everything can still be changed. also less welding this way, and i don't have to fight trying to get that little round tube in between the frame rails. this way might work to better

bullnerd how do i find that inner pivot point, in the pic i just tacked it up there. plus i think my swing arm is a little to long. still clears the frame and all. i have only done one side right now.


Attachments:
IMG_0359.JPG
IMG_0359.JPG [ 79.9 KiB | Viewed 1240 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22105
Location: Chicago
fully wrote:
well i quickly made up a new bracket. still no bushings or anything yet. but i mounted it vertical like that photo and i think it might work pretty good. this was just a mock up again so everything can still be changed. also less welding this way, and i don't have to fight trying to get that little round tube in between the frame rails. this way might work to better

bullnerd how do i find that inner pivot point, in the pic i just tacked it up there. plus i think my swing arm is a little to long. still clears the frame and all. i have only done one side right now.



When mocking up stuff like that your on the right track but use a bigger plate drill 20 holes in it then play with different locations cycle the suspension as you try each location cycle it wheels straight then cycle it with wheels turned 1/2 way then full turn.

Same with your attachment points at the spindle use a plate with a bunch of holes.

Someone really sharp with 3D cad could draw it all up and animate it to test :-)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:39 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Looks good.
Is the tie rod still parallel with the lower?

Are you ready for this, The inner tie rod pivot is the center of the arc created by the outer tie rod pivot.Read this over and over and look at the pic below,this is one of the first ones I posted.

The easiest way to find it now that you now the tierod length is(13.5?)is to tape a piece of cardboard roughly where you think the inner will be(you have a pretty good idea now right?).Put the cardboard vertical,basically right where your new bracket is.Now cycle your suspension(this is where knowing your shock lenghts would help)full bump,ride height,full droop.Put a magic marker in your inner rod end.Make an arc on the cardboard at each location(full bump,etc...).where these arc cross over is VERY close to where the pivot needs to be.If they don't cross over you can guesstimate the average of the three.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
well that was easy enough..lol..my tie rod is not exactly level with the lower a arm, but is fairly close. as for the arc marks i made looks like "with out shocks" i need to be 3.25" up off the bottom frame. but if i put it exactly there i think i would be hitting the upper frame. so i guess i will just mount it as high as i can with out any frame contact. in the mock up photo i am just under 3" so i am not far off.

i leave for work again tomorrow so it will be two weeks before i can finish it up, but i ordered some bushing for the swing arm, and shocks will be here on the 10th so next set of days off i should be able to rap this up and maybe take for a test ride.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:59 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Yup,that's why I was trying to go step by step.
Find the tie rod length,
Figure out your actual travel based on your shocks,
Do the cardboard/arc thingy,
THEN build the mounts. :-)

Its all good,3-1/4 to 3" shouldn't be a problem.What if you made the swing arms like you originally had them?Horizontally,would you be able to get closer to the arc centerline?The rod doesnt have to be parallel,but its a good starting point.

BTW,for future reference,you can use the same concept to locate the upper inner control arm mounts.Cycle the suspension with the camber curve you want,use the upper balljoint,and strike a series of arcs,this is very close to where the upper pivots go.All can be done with cardboard.

Have fun at work and I'm looking foward to your first test drive. :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
if i went back to the horizontal mount, i might gain a little, but i think at full turn and full bump i would be hitting the frame if i went to the 3.25". in both mock up pics i took i am so close to hitting the frame as it is. but i think i might stick to the vertical mount. just for the ease of mounting it, and there should never be any binding either. strength wise is should be the same..

i am sure hoping when i get back from this run at work. i will be able to take it for a test ride..everything should be here by then, shocks and those bushing, so i will just have to build upper shock mounts finish off the steering, get some stainless braided brake lines built for it, and then fire it up..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
first day up north at work and guess what shows up.....now i have to wait 13 more days to see them try to get them mounted


Attachments:
IMG_0365.JPG
IMG_0365.JPG [ 118.2 KiB | Viewed 1184 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
back home from work now. time to get back at this and get these shocks mounted. the came off a 08 ltr 450. 17" eye to eye. i don't think i will get a full 11-12" of travel that is available. i am hoping for 9-10" though. going to be a little difficult to get the upper mount right, also going to have to cut my fenders i think


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
well i think i finished it up, the fabing and welding anyway. also trimmed my fenders so they fit back on. tomorrow i will go down to the bolt supply and get all the proper bolts that i need to bolt it up. then off to a brake shop to get some braided lines made for the front. i will get some pics tomorrow of the upper shock mounts and what it looks like at full bump and droop. the tires are cambered in right now. it easy to change, but i need to get some adjustable upper ball joints. i had the tires straight up and down before and when i turned the outside tire was leaning away from the buggy. so i redid the tabs and cambered them in a bit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:11 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
no ride report yet. hopefully soon though. i think it turned out pretty good. here are some finished pics. minus brakes didn't get that done yet maybe today..i probably will have to get the upper adjustable ball joints but for now i think it will be fine.


Attachments:
File comment: full bump
IMG_0373.JPG
IMG_0373.JPG [ 86.41 KiB | Viewed 1068 times ]
File comment: ride height
IMG_0374.JPG
IMG_0374.JPG [ 85.31 KiB | Viewed 1068 times ]
File comment: full extension
IMG_0375.JPG
IMG_0375.JPG [ 84.8 KiB | Viewed 1068 times ]
IMG_0376.JPG
IMG_0376.JPG [ 88.95 KiB | Viewed 1068 times ]
File comment: upper shock mount
IMG_0377.JPG
IMG_0377.JPG [ 108.87 KiB | Viewed 1068 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:08 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Very cool.
Yeah it looks like your camber curve is a little off.
You might be able to fix it,your upper tabs look pretty big.Maybe move the hole and weld up the old ones.
I would have made full bump a little lower but no biggie.

Remember how you found the pivot for the TRE?Do the same thing to find the upper inner arm mounts.Get an angle gauge of some sort and cycle your suspension.Make an arc with the upper arm,at full bump,droop,ride.Use the angle gauge to set the camber at each position before you make the arc.Not sure what works for the pilot?I think Shoubadaba said -2deg?
0deg at full droop,-2 at ride hieght and a little more -5deg? at full bump.

Give it a ride first.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
thanks bullnerd. you were a huge help. i plan on riding it before i make any more changes. it wouldn't take much to redrill the upper mounts and do the camber the way you described. can't remember off the top of my head but i think the bottom of the sub frame at full bump was 4-5" not sure of exact number
also go my tach installed.


Attachments:
IMG_0380.JPG
IMG_0380.JPG [ 68.64 KiB | Viewed 1048 times ]
IMG_0379.JPG
IMG_0379.JPG [ 30.27 KiB | Viewed 1048 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 622
Location: mustang,ok
Like the build did you ever ride it, or mess with the adjustable ball joints? Just wondering great build
just never got a full report on the ride likes dislikes would you change anything was it worth it in youre opinion?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
It handles great. Totally worth all the effort I put into it. And the fox floats ride so nice. Will be interesting to see how my fl450r rides compared to this one.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 622
Location: mustang,ok
Thanks fully
I have the parts on the way for my conversion. Just wanted a little feedback on it make sure
it was holding up. and how you like it .
Youre write up was great I have read it about 2 or 3 times. And with all
the input from everyone seems to have helped.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:10 am
Posts: 3
how wide is it outside of tire to outside tire


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 95
I would also like to know how wide the ody is now, as I am getting ready to do a similar build. How does it ride?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
When I get a chance I will take a measurement for u


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:57 am
Posts: 47
Location: Corona,CA
Great info here! I am doing an a arm conversion also and I had a question on the angle that the a arms are mounted, I believe it's called the rake. Does it effect the steering if it is not at the same angle as the trx450? I think it is around 14 degrees on the quad but I see many conversions that aren't that steep. Thanks.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: badbob66, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], bullnerd, canadian oddy, DC, Duneit, ez71pilot, FloridaEdd, go oddy, Google [Bot], jknarfal, liduno, New To Odesseys, Odyjnky, Q, rmesser, scpilot66, Threerivers, toby, xlint89, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group