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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
yeah that's kind of what i had in mind..i new about the shock have to be perpendicular as possible to the lower arm. so i should be able to bring the upper mount out and up under the fender.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
home from work now time to get back at this thing..

i might have scored some fox floats for a good deal. they compress to 12" and full compression on the arms is about 10. so i will lose a little travel but not much...

and for heims not sure what to order, i think i need a 1/2" thread shaft and 1/2" hole diameter, and get the high misalignment spacers that reduce to 3/8" is that correct.. haven't ordered anything yet so just looking for some help


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:56 am 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
from the spacers that i have been looking at. the 1/2 to 3/8 should give me about 30 degrees of angle for the tie rods to move.. that should be enough i would think or should i be going with a larger heim and spacer


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
got some more work done today. everything is just mocked up and tack welded for now, hopefully my shocks will be here by monday. i leave for work again on tuesday.
the last pic is full turn, doesn't seem like a lot. what are you thoughts

when the lower arm is level, there is about a 4 degree difference from the tie rod.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:57 am 
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Location: Upland, Ca
Looks cool man. Heres a few things to consider. Your bumpsteer arm is too thin. I would use 7/16 thick material. You will bend what you have. Also your arm should have a bearing on it where it mounts to the frame. The metal to metal way you have it will make your steering sloppy and ware out fast 2 skateboard wheel bearings work well for this. I would also put the rods on either side of your bumpsteer arm as well not on just one side. The wheel load under turning will twist the arm.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
shoubadaba wrote:
Your bumpsteer arm is too thin.

i was wondering about that. the only thing is that the threaded end where they bolt on to the ball joint i am running out of thread.

shoubadaba wrote:
I would also put the rods on either side of your bumpsteer arm as well not on just one side..

not sure what you mean here,


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
fully wrote:
shoubadaba wrote:
Your bumpsteer arm is too thin.

i was wondering about that. the only thing is that the threaded end where they bolt on to the ball joint i am running out of thread.

shoubadaba wrote:
I would also put the rods on either side of your bumpsteer arm as well not on just one side..

not sure what you mean here,



Sandwitch the arm in between the heims instead of stacking them both on top of the arm.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
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Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
ROD END
BUMP ARM
ROD END

Otherwise you're putting a big bending force on the arm, making it want to twist and likely snap. You want the tie rods / heims...one on each side of the arm...to balance that load.

Ditto on the thicker arm material, too. You've got 2x the thickness holding it to the frame (two tabs), so why only 1x thickness for the arm? Catch my drift?


Also, how does the bump steer linkage feel when you're at full travel (droop)? No bind? No clanging the frame? In the pic, you've got the suspension full up (even further than that), so having the spindle arm's rod end on the top makes sense. But maybe it'd make better sense and motion to have that one on the bottom if your have the arms angled down in a more realistic depiction.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
ok i get it now..thinking of how i can make them thicker got a couple ideas brewing..

DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Also, how does the bump steer linkage feel when you're at full travel (droop)? No bind? No clanging the frame? In the pic, you've got the suspension full up (even further than that), so having the spindle arm on the top makes sense. But maybe it'd make better sense and motion to have that on the bottom if your have the arms angled down in a more realistic depiction.


it does bind a little a full droop but with the shocks when mounted i am thinking its not going to droop that far. will see when the shocks come in. doesn't hit the frame anywhere.

the pic i just tried to level the a arms, they can compress more than what is shown there. but how much is going to depend on how i mount the shocks..


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
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Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Cool. I'm loving this since I'm gonna' do a custom a-arm job on the front of my buggy #2 here soon. Tons of geometry to digest, that's for sure. Coors Light doesn't help either, FYI. lol


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
not sure how to go about using skateboard bearing so i am think maybe getting a bent up a arm and cutting the ends off. and use them for the bumps steer bearings, will have to measure and see if they will fit


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Looks good Fully,sorry I missed that you were back on it.
I see you have a balljoint on the outer tierod end,looks very good height wise.
I would have liked to walk you through finding the inner pivot location to minimize your bump steer,or at least get real close,but it looks good.Remember,the inner pivot is the center of the radius created by the outer pivot.Look at my cad pic if you have to,and I can explain it again.
You definately want some kind of bearing/bushing on the swingset pivot like was mentioned.(what everyone calls bumpsteer kit,I call swingset)
Personally I would have made the swingset "swing" from the other side,so it swings the same as the spindle steering arm but either will work.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Location: near NJ rider
fully wrote:
not sure how to go about using skateboard bearing so i am think maybe getting a bent up a arm and cutting the ends off. and use them for the bumps steer bearings, will have to measure and see if they will fit


That would prolly work as long as they are not like a rubber flexy bushing and are solid plastic bushings?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
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Location: near NJ rider
Heres what I mean by swinging the other way.Cowboys pilot,very nicely done.
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Ah, I see.

That's some serious rake, too, at least from that angle.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
bullnerd wrote:
Looks good Fully,sorry I missed that you were back on it.
I see you have a balljoint on the outer tierod end,looks very good height wise.
I would have liked to walk you through finding the inner pivot location to minimize your bump steer,or at least get real close,but it looks good.Remember,the inner pivot is the center of the radius created by the outer pivot.Look at my cad pic if you have to,and I can explain it again.
You definately want some kind of bearing/bushing on the swingset pivot like was mentioned.(what everyone calls bumpsteer kit,I call swingset)
Personally I would have made the swingset "swing" from the other side,so it swings the same as the spindle steering arm but either will work.


nothing is permeant yet, lol...as far as finding the inner pivot i just took that measurement of 13.5 eye to eye for the outside rod and tried to get the inner to line up the best as possible. worked pretty well

not sure if i can make the swing set swing the same ways as the steering flag. there is a factory frame hoop that might be in the way if i was to do it that way


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Location: near NJ rider
Sounds good.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:15 am 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
bullnerd wrote:
Sounds good.

other than being to thin and need some kind of bearing. i think i did alright..is there anything that you see.
when moving the tires up and down cycling the suspension, the right tire doesn't move at all, but the left side toes out just a bit. but nothing is bolted up tight or welded on the steering yet so that might have an effect on things
i mounted the tires tonight and looks like i am going to have to to the camber mod, looks like i was a touch off on my measurements. it appears that i have a bit on negative camber. not a big deal, as it can be fixed..also have ass mounted the fenders today just to see what it was going to look like, i like it. i am hoping for a ride height about where it is sitting. only thing is i am afraid its not going to turn very sharp, will have to wait and see i guess


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:52 am 
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Location: Upland, Ca
You want some negative camber in the front. About 2 degrees of negative camber.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: near NJ rider
Just curious,does the stock ody rim fit over the new hub/disk setup?
The offset on the stock rims is much better.
Looks good,like Shoubadaba said.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
sorry i got mixed up, it has a little positive camber, doesn't look like much, will have to measure to see how bad it is.

the stock rims have a different bolt pattern. not sure of the offset of stock trx rims. these are what douglas had.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:48 am
Posts: 186
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
I agree with everyone on the need to beef up the anti-bumpsteer steering arm and add some kind of actual pivot to it.

My suggestion to keep it simple:
Make arm out of 3/8" plate (could be aluminum or steel)
Use 2 bronze flanged bushings for 3/8" shaft (McMaster # 1677K4)
Use 3/8" shoulder bolt as pivot arm (assuming two 1/8" thick tabs on frame, then 3/4" long shoulder - McMaster # 90298A622 )

This way you get bushings in the pivot without any complicated parts. You want the bushings to press into the arm so that hole needs to be a good fit, and you may need to shim the shoulder bolt slightly to make sure everything is snug but not loose or tight.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2014
Location: St. John, Washington
You are using the TRX450 front hubs correct? So your bolt pattern is 4/144? I am going to be using those hubs on my pilot and was shown these Douglas Yellow Label rims by MAS Racing. Tthey are a 4+1 offset so they are closer to the factory than what you are running.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380394491111?ss ... 1423.l2649


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
yes the rims are 4x144 i went with the red labels instead of yellow. and offset is 3:3 i opted to go with the 6" wide rim. Stock offset is 4:1.5 (10 x 5.5 wheel) The 3:2 will be a little wider, 4:1 will be a little narrower. had i gone with the 5" wide rims the offset would be closer at 3:2

now for the bumpsteer arm i am wondering if i should change the design a bit. the top is what i currently have and the bottom is what i am thinking of doing. will it still work fine or should i stick with what i have, only thicker


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Location: near NJ rider
Yup,and if you move the inner hole in or out you can change how far your tie rod will travel and get the right amount of steering,it doesnt have to be 1:1.


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