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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
Greetings Odyssey/pilot owners

While I'm not the owner of an FL250, 350, or pilot, I was one of the first into the fledgling sport of Odyssey racing, back when they were still yellow and the hot ticket was a Jott roll cage. I began racing them first at a motorcycle park called Indian Dunes, just north of Los Angeles, and as the sport grew, we ventured out with the growing race seen to both the Coyote productions ATV nationals to the ARA desert racing association. Back in the day of Hillside Honda, Kruse racing, and later Pro ATV and Briggsbuilt, myself and others helped to pioneer the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) grafting, fully suspended tubular roll cages, as well as when the sport started to see the likes of big time race promotions from Micky Thompson and others.

So I know nothing about the non Odyssey vehicles and little really about pilots, last one I owned was an FL350. But should anyone have any questions about this sports infancy, I might know a thing or two, feel free to ask away.

Unfortunately, there are almost no pictures available on the web of this era. I'll see if I can't scan some of my old pictures and magazines to present here, should anyone be interested.

Vicconius


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Hi and welcome to PilotOdyssey.com glad you made your way here.

Please scan all the pics you have and share with us so we can preserve the history of the sport.

A pioneer you are your info is valuable to us all so feel free to tell us all your war stories.

I don't consider myself a pioneer but I have lived the history of ATV's starting out on a 1971 ATC90, I didnt get into the Odysseys until the early 90's I spent most my time on motorcycles and three wheelers many of my friends had Odysseys and a few raced them back in the real early 80's, being from the midwest (75 miles SW of Chicago) we seen a lot of Kustom Kraft stuff.

I did a little racing with my Pilot in the mid 90's but nothing serious back then my money was focused on the family and not a lot was left for the racing bug.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Welcome aboard!!! Great bunch of people here and we look forward to as much as your willing to share!! Bragging is allowed!!!
David


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Did a little flat track racing myself back in the early eighties with the old 1977 FL250. Odyssey Racing Club of America (ORCA) in Bakersfiled CA.

Welcome to the board!

Rand


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
Alrighty then, you asked for them, so here are a few pictures from back in the day. Quality is poor as they are digital photos of pictures hanging on the wall in the trophy room.

My first racing Fl250 at Indian Dunes
Image

A bit later into my racing endeavors, this was at Saddleback Park. I snapped a reduction case chain that day on a big downhill, losing my brakes and ended up breaking my hand when the steering wheel snapped back after hitting a wall in an attempt to get stopped.
Image

This is my first fully suspended FL250. The reduction case was centered allowing for 12 inches of rear wheel travel. Won a lot of races in that car. This photo is from Borona Oaks raceway.
Image

These pics were cut out of Dirt Wheels magazine, they did an article on this car.
Image

This was the first Phantom2 to roll off the Pro ATV production line. The Phantom2 was all stock dimension so as to be legal for the Coyote ATV nationals.
Image

A finally, my Phantom1, which has a slightly longer wheelbase and a little wider track. ARA desert race somewhere in the Lucerne valley.
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ever run into or have any dealings with Marv Fenwell (spelling?) he use to fab stuff for the Ody racers back in the day, axles, spindles?

Can you tell us about the engines and transmission and their evolution, a friend of mine had some gear change sets that were for the 250 trans.

Good stuff keep it coming.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
Fourth picture down-doesnt someone here own that now?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Joliet, Illinois
bullnerd wrote:
Fourth picture down-doesnt someone here own that now?


Thought I saw that one on the 3wheeler board, in someone's garage......


I don't have my FL250 anymore, but I know some of the guys on here were interested in a rear suspension set up for the 250. Can you give any advice or set up tips for them?

And welcome to the board....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
I have no idea about the disposition of my old FL's. The KYSH car (fourth one down) was sold as a rolling chassis (no motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? ))) to another racer at the time. The Phantom2 was sold to a guy in Texas who drove out to California to pick it up. The Phantom1 was sold to a friend who sold it again after a few years.

I have a plethora of knowledge about these things, I just need to set my memory scanner out to dig it all up from somewhere deep inside my grey matter.

Several things pop to mind about getting these cars to get with the program. First and foremost is the clutch (torque converter). When we figured out some of the basics of how they work and how to adjust them, we were able to make huge performance gains in all Odyssey racing classes (stock class included, ya cheater stuff too).

Here's the deal with the clutch...

Just like starting off on a motorcycle in second or third gear, there is little in the way of acceleration because the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is not yet into it's power range. Through a combination of spring tension and block weight, (Always used Powerbloc, but the same holds true for Salisbury and Comet) we could tune the clutch to not engage until the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is in the optimal power range, and how fast the belt moves up the friction plate (this is also controlled by the spring tension and cam ramp angle on the rear pulley) so as to keep the Engine in that optimal power range for as long as possible. This is critically important on 2 stroke motors, especially underpowered ones like the FL250.

Can I assume you guys are hip to the lubricants of today and are not mixing your 2 stroke oil 20:1 as recommended on the gas tank sticker?

Here's the jist on this, in the event you don't already know. First off, 20:1 is way too much lubricant for the motors needs. 40:1 or even 60:1 will do the job just fine.
Also consider this when Engine tuning...
Your Keihin carb (or Mikuni) can't tell the difference between oil and gas, it simply meters out fluid to air. Your engines performance is based on fuel to air mixture.

Therefore, less oil in the mixture means a higher fuel to air ratio (richer). More oil, less gas is a lower fuel to air ratio (leaner). Also consider that excess oil in the crankcases retains heat.
I mention this because the FL's have an inherent overheating problem due to their configuration.

I'll leave you guys with that for now. I'm sure I will recall many more performance tricks and more about the history as time goes on.

If you want to move this thread into another section of your forums (tech or whatever) I'm good with that. I'm just sitting on all this information that I think many around here could utilize so I'm happy I can share.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I had this Challenger car for a while what a fun little machine if the cockpit was a little bigger I would still have it today. http://www.pilotodyssey.com/challengerhome.htm" ."..

It was a blast to ride it was so light and nimble.

Anything about the Challenger you can tell us?

Image

It came with a air cooled Yamaha 250 top end mated to a stock FL250 bottom end, the Engine runs really strong and has a lot of torque I ended up putting in a Mossbarger liquid cooled 250 mated to a stock FL250 bottom end the cylinder was modeled after the older CR250 some info on the Mossbarger http://www.pilotodyssey.com/mossbarger.htm
I still have the Yamaha based Engine and pipe I should find a FL250 project to put it in :-)

Image


You mention clutches I have a plastic tub full of after market cheater parts for the stock salsbury clutches, I never tried the different springs as I never found a stock clutch that had enough life left in it to try them on.

Many different spring tensions.

The other pic is of a old Powerbloc clutch maybe you remember them it had the white pucks and the white plastic bushing in the center that never worked well, look close you can see this clutch also had the outside diameter turned down so it was the same O.D. as the "stock" clutch, guess that was a rule back in the day.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
The Challengers were the first production suspended chassis kit, to my knowledge. They came from somewhere around the San Diego area, if I'm not mistaken. We sold a few dozen out of KYSH 3X4 (Kawasaki Yamaha Suzuki Honda 3 & 4 wheelers) and had a shop owned car set up to display. Perhaps we were just too rough on them, but it got to where we stopped taking it out to play with it because we always broke it :/

They were extremely light but they were also very cramped in the cockpit. Because they left the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and reduction case in pretty close to the stock configuration, the swing shafts (pivoting axles) where really short, reducing wheel travel and causing huge camber swings and a tendency to want to tuck in high speed, loamy corners. Which would usually result in broken suspension components.

Once we realized that the reduction case and brake didn't care which way it turned or where it was positioned, we spun it around backwards and centered it in the car. This allowed us to greatly increase the length of the swing axles, thus increasing wheel travel and reducing the positive/negative effects of camber changes on a swing axle type suspension. We considered CV joints or double U jointed, five piece axles for a true IRS, but felt the extra weight on Engine driven parts was not worth it.

The Salisbury's were pain in the rear, Powerblocs were simple and efficient. The stronger the spring and the lighter the arms/blocs, the higher the RPM before the clutch faces closed, engaging the drive belt. With Powerbloc, we could run a heavier main spring with heavier (more metal discs in the plastic blocs) blocs for a greater range of adjustability.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
Hi welcome to the board. I too also owned a challenger car and a pro-atv phantomIII car. The phantom car I had came with dual longtravel front j-arms tripple dual rate rear shocks and a fl350 Engine and trans. I had it 8 years ago and swaped in a cyuna 440 sled Engine just before I sold it. Biggest mistake I ever made. Been looking for another ever since I search craigslist every day hoping one pops up. I know there must be a few of these still around here in socal since most of ther races were here back in the day. Worst part is I never took any pics of it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
Here's a couple more old pics. These were on a bulletin board in the garage and are starting to fall apart.


The last two years of the D37 Great Bear GP included ATV classes. Five ten mile laps around the late, great Riverside Int. raceway. I finished second overall behind the top ATC rider (Ron Haas 250R) and won the open Odyssey class with ease being the only Ody to complete all five laps.
Image

Phantom somewhere in the SoCal desert.
Image

I got a box of pictures somewhere :/, when I find em, I'll post some of them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Vicconius wrote:
Here's a couple more old pics. These were on a bulletin board in the garage and are starting to fall apart.


The last two years of the D37 Great Bear GP included ATV classes. Five ten mile laps around the late, great Riverside Int. raceway. I finished second overall behind the top ATC rider (Ron Haas 250R) and won the open Odyssey class with ease being the only Ody to complete all five laps.

I got a box of pictures somewhere :/, when I find em, I'll post some of them.


FIND THEM soon :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 714
Vicconius are you still around?

This is a very cool thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 714
Did you ever find those old pics? I would love to see them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 714
Bump, Would really like to talk to the OP.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:56 pm
Posts: 19
vicconious,, hey, i remember that suspended car in your pic,, but cant put a face to it,, my son and i started racing at Barona from the beginning.. we had to have crossed pathes, we raced Barona, Browns Field,, Carlsbad, Corona in the early and mid '80's.. lots of time out in the dune areas Buttercup, Glamis, pismo also.. my class III car was an old Challenger SS with the back end cut off and redone a bit but with longer travel. my car was the first car (at least in SD area) with the gearcase moved to the center using the HONDASAKI motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:45 pm
Posts: 441
Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Very cool, PLEASE continue to revive this thread.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
The good ole dimple knobby tires one of the best tires ever made I wish they made 24 x12 x10 for the rear of the Pilot...

Yes more pictures and more info please, don't let this history remain in you photo albums in a closet collecting dust :-)


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:19 am
Posts: 714
Old thread yes. But I got to add my class 3 car here. Almost done with restore. 360cc Cammex Engine. First pic is not my car but one close to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Posts: 9
Where did this guy go? He was only on for a month. Bump


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