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 Post subject: LT Pilot Kit By Dave-Co
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Posts: 550
lutrev wrote:
I'll take some later, machine and garage look like a bomb went off. It just seems like it would make more sense to add 2 1/2 on the Tie-rods, as you end up with a fair bit of thread exposed, as compared with stock, which is only about 1/4" of exposed thread.

Can't take photos till after US-Canada hockey game :shock:
that would add to the 30 hour build time, must take a few hours brake every 15 minutes. With jigs already madeI cannot see any other reason to take 30 hours to fab up these little arms than massive breaks


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:25 am 
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Dave-Co wrote:
lutrev wrote:
I'll take some later, machine and garage look like a bomb went off. It just seems like it would make more sense to add 2 1/2 on the Tie-rods, as you end up with a fair bit of thread exposed, as compared with stock, which is only about 1/4" of exposed thread.

Can't take photos till after US-Canada hockey game :shock:
that would add to the 30 hour build time, must take a few hours brake every 15 minutes. With jigs already madeI cannot see any other reason to take 30 hours to fab up these little arms than massive breaks


No secerets here no excuses here take a set of stock Pilot a arms to any fabricator tell them you want them 2.5" wider and 1" forward have them fabricated up, want to go into production and sell kits just Google TRX450R A-arms look for all the current popular brands contact the MFG making the arms have them run a batch for you, maybe get a group buy going.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:33 pm 
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I am a class A aerospace fabricator-welder by trade, I have welded on every space shuttle launched, also building winning off road race cars for the Baja 1000 Baja 500, the Mint 400 among others in my spare time, I do cage work, A arm suspensions on buggies Bajas and trucks on a daily basis on the side, my hands have been on many of the Score series winning cars and trucks over the years. I enjoyed reading this thread up till he made the statement he has 30 hours into each set! I fault no one trying to make a product and making money for others to enjoy, I get good money welding on winning trophy trucks, Dakar cars,that is what makes the world go around. but that 30 hours into them could have been left unsaid, it casts a cloud on everything else he has said. I don't know him from Adam but I do know tube work and welding extreemly well, in my garage a couple hours is more inline, if I had jigs all ready to go??. like his site shows. don't be fooled, the profit margin on these arms and from the others offering FL400 pilot long travel arms or any other long travel ATV quad arms is huge, gigantic, 85-90% or more profit, especialy if using DOM tubing or mild steel which pilots need nothing more like 4130 for a light little car but even if 4130 is used there may be 50 to 60 bucks for the arm material. forsure the arms with no hymes or ball joints for 700+ Yes you have to have the equipment to do this, but if you do, things go extreamly fast. He does, but claim 30 hours?, enjoy this site . Sorry for the rant, much respect to hoser and your site---Dave


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Dave-Co wrote:
I am a class A aerospace fabricator-welder by trade, I have welded on every space shuttle launched, also building winning off road race cars for the Baja 1000 Baja 500, the Mint 400 among others in my spare time, I do cage work, A arm suspensions on buggies Bajas and trucks on a daily basis on the side, my hands have been on many of the Score series winning cars and trucks over the years. I enjoyed reading this thread up till he made the statement he has 30 hours into each set! I fault no one trying to make a product and making money for others to enjoy, I get good money welding on winning trophy trucks, Dakar cars,that is what makes the world go around. but that 30 hours into them could have been left unsaid, it casts a cloud on everything else he has said. I don't know him from Adam but I do know tube work and welding extreemly well, in my garage a couple hours is more inline, if I had jigs all ready to go??. like his site shows. don't be fooled, the profit margin on these arms and from the others offering FL400 pilot long travel arms or any other long travel ATV quad arms is huge, gigantic, 85-90% or more profit, especialy if using DOM tubing or mild steel which pilots need nothing more like 4130 for a light little car but even if 4130 is used there may be 50 to 60 bucks for the arm material. forsure the arms with no hymes or ball joints for 700+ Yes you have to have the equipment to do this, but if you do, things go extreamly fast. He does, but claim 30 hours?, enjoy this site . Sorry for the rant, much respect to hoser and your site---Dave


Rent welcomed

Have no clue how many actual hours he put into fabricating the arms from what I understand he is not a fabricator by trade he is doing all this in his garage did his 30 hrs include all the bushings he has to make for each hiem joint on his lathe I spent over 6 hours fabricating the last set of hiem reducers I made for myself, what about the time invested in ordering sorting all the parts no doubt he orders as needed for each kit ordered.

30 hrs per kit would be really reasonable from where I am setting.

I told him as well as many others from day one they never need to justify their cost or their time have something to sell list it people don't like the price of what they offer they wont buy it.

Post up some pics of your past projects we all love that shit also remember 'its not bragging if you can do it' regardless what other might think....

PLEASE consider fabricating arms like these for the Pilot, price them as you see fit YODA has no corner on any market not even sure if he is selling kits any more?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:26 am 
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Posts: 550
hoser wrote:
Dave-Co wrote:
I am a class A aerospace fabricator-welder by trade, I have welded on every space shuttle launched, also building winning off road race cars for the Baja 1000 Baja 500, the Mint 400 among others in my spare time, I do cage work, A arm suspensions on buggies Bajas and trucks on a daily basis on the side, my hands have been on many of the Score series winning cars and trucks over the years. I enjoyed reading this thread up till he made the statement he has 30 hours into each set! I fault no one trying to make a product and making money for others to enjoy, I get good money welding on winning trophy trucks, Dakar cars,that is what makes the world go around. but that 30 hours into them could have been left unsaid, it casts a cloud on everything else he has said. I don't know him from Adam but I do know tube work and welding extreemly well, in my garage a couple hours is more inline, if I had jigs all ready to go??. like his site shows. don't be fooled, the profit margin on these arms and from the others offering FL400 pilot long travel arms or any other long travel ATV quad arms is huge, gigantic, 85-90% or more profit, especialy if using DOM tubing or mild steel which pilots need nothing more like 4130 for a light little car but even if 4130 is used there may be 50 to 60 bucks for the arm material. forsure the arms with no hymes or ball joints for 700+ Yes you have to have the equipment to do this, but if you do, things go extreamly fast. He does, but claim 30 hours?, enjoy this site . Sorry for the rant, much respect to hoser and your site---Dave


Rent welcomed

Have no clue how many actual hours he put into fabricating the arms from what I understand he is not a fabricator by trade he is doing all this in his garage did his 30 hrs include all the bushings he has to make for each hiem joint on his lathe I spent over 6 hours fabricating the last set of hiem reducers I made for myself, what about the time invested in ordering sorting all the parts no doubt he orders as needed for each kit ordered.

30 hrs per kit would be really reasonable from where I am setting.

I told him as well as many others from day one they never need to justify their cost or their time have something to sell list it people don't like the price of what they offer they wont buy it.

Post up some pics of your past projects we all love that shit also remember 'its not bragging if you can do it' regardless what other might think....

PLEASE consider fabricating arms like these for the Pilot, price them as you see fit YODA has no corner on any market not even sure if he is selling kits any more?
I plan on it hoser, infact after work tommorow I am going to pick up some 1 inch 095 4130 to build some arms. My plan is to help people live there dream of a long travel pilot at a price unheard of. I enjoy doing this kind of thing and helping people also. I don't know this gentlman at all, I do know how fast tube work is and the plain truth is it is far cheaper to just buy the threaded bungs than to take the time to make them. I have a source for very good race quality hymes at a very good price, have been a custamer for nearly 40 years and get things far cheaper than most. My goal is to build these for people at a slight profit for the time getting the stuff together. There is zero reason arms should be costing 900+ dollars with a simple couple of tabs to put on the frame. especially when made of DOM or mild steel. My thought is just because we own pilots does not mean we all are made of money. Hoser could you send me some pictures of the bump steer kit on muds pilot, I want to see what it looks like in a clear picture. I want to build both 4.5 arms and the 2.5 like on this thread. The ball joints look to be early model Vw tie rod ends which I have a large hook up on those or ricky stater is about 45 minutes or less from my house. I am reserching these things now, the arms I will make will not be painted, but will be all tig welded where it gets welded(my specialty,) shocks will be up to the buyer. Will keep in touch---Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:58 am 
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G'Day Dave,good for you Mate! Hope it all turns out well.
Just a thought here,how about making them with adjustable shock brackets for us racers?
I race my PilotFL800,and also have another Pilot as spare backup,in off road events here Downunder.
Some tracks are fairly flat,others varying sized jumps.Would be great to have the adjustable shock mounts to lower,raise the front end to suit.
Cheers Baz.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22077
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
hoser wrote:
Dave-Co wrote:
I am a class A aerospace fabricator-welder by trade, I have welded on every space shuttle launched, also building winning off road race cars for the Baja 1000 Baja 500, the Mint 400 among others in my spare time, I do cage work, A arm suspensions on buggies Bajas and trucks on a daily basis on the side, my hands have been on many of the Score series winning cars and trucks over the years. I enjoyed reading this thread up till he made the statement he has 30 hours into each set! I fault no one trying to make a product and making money for others to enjoy, I get good money welding on winning trophy trucks, Dakar cars,that is what makes the world go around. but that 30 hours into them could have been left unsaid, it casts a cloud on everything else he has said. I don't know him from Adam but I do know tube work and welding extreemly well, in my garage a couple hours is more inline, if I had jigs all ready to go??. like his site shows. don't be fooled, the profit margin on these arms and from the others offering FL400 pilot long travel arms or any other long travel ATV quad arms is huge, gigantic, 85-90% or more profit, especialy if using DOM tubing or mild steel which pilots need nothing more like 4130 for a light little car but even if 4130 is used there may be 50 to 60 bucks for the arm material. forsure the arms with no hymes or ball joints for 700+ Yes you have to have the equipment to do this, but if you do, things go extreamly fast. He does, but claim 30 hours?, enjoy this site . Sorry for the rant, much respect to hoser and your site---Dave


Rent welcomed

Have no clue how many actual hours he put into fabricating the arms from what I understand he is not a fabricator by trade he is doing all this in his garage did his 30 hrs include all the bushings he has to make for each hiem joint on his lathe I spent over 6 hours fabricating the last set of hiem reducers I made for myself, what about the time invested in ordering sorting all the parts no doubt he orders as needed for each kit ordered.

30 hrs per kit would be really reasonable from where I am setting.

I told him as well as many others from day one they never need to justify their cost or their time have something to sell list it people don't like the price of what they offer they wont buy it.

Post up some pics of your past projects we all love that shit also remember 'its not bragging if you can do it' regardless what other might think....

PLEASE consider fabricating arms like these for the Pilot, price them as you see fit YODA has no corner on any market not even sure if he is selling kits any more?
I plan on it hoser, infact after work tommorow I am going to pick up some 1 inch 095 4130 to build some arms. My plan is to help people live there dream of a long travel pilot at a price unheard of. I enjoy doing this kind of thing and helping people also. I don't know this gentlman at all, I do know how fast tube work is and the plain truth is it is far cheaper to just buy the threaded bungs than to take the time to make them. I have a source for very good race quality hymes at a very good price, have been a custamer for nearly 40 years and get things far cheaper than most. My goal is to build these for people at a slight profit for the time getting the stuff together. There is zero reason arms should be costing 900+ dollars with a simple couple of tabs to put on the frame. especially when made of DOM or mild steel. My thought is just because we own pilots does not mean we all are made of money. Hoser could you send me some pictures of the bump steer kit on muds pilot, I want to see what it looks like in a clear picture. I want to build both 4.5 arms and the 2.5 like on this thread. The ball joints look to be early model Vw tie rod ends which I have a large hook up on those or ricky stater is about 45 minutes or less from my house. I am reserching these things now, the arms I will make will not be painted, but will be all tig welded where it gets welded(my specialty,) shocks will be up to the buyer. Will keep in touch---Dave



Yes going by memory ATVR used modified VW ball joints.

I can take all the pics you want of the ATVR steering but that is the last steering setup I would want to copy, first they force you to butcher up your plastic tube to make it fit, second its a weld on addition adnoh made a bolt on drag link for his Pilot I would look at and or copy it I also think his installs without modifications to the tub? I searched for adnoh's info and pics but cant find it and cant remember the name of the thread maybe someone else can or better yet contact him ? I will shoot him a PM with a link to this thread...

Here are prints for +3" arms http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1756 :-)

Have you read this http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3256


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:02 am 
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Check out the last pics in this post Dave Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:16 am 
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hoser wrote:
Check out the last pics in this post Dave Image

Image

Image
thank you for the information, bought 60ft of tubing today, 095 1 inch 4130=218 dollors, can make quite a few arms with that, bought 8 4130 bungs and 8 of the best racing hymes= 207 dollars. Probably could use lower grade-lower cost hymes according to my source, the high quality ones I bought were about 17 dollars each, the lower quality were about 7 dollars ea. I admit I don't know much about the 2 different hymes but I trust my sourse. I try to always go with the best that is why I bought the more expensive hymes. I can tell by some of the pictures threw out the net that a lot are using junk hymes, really cheap quality, the real skinny ones. My plan is also to make rear suspension also, I got the extended axle source figured out today for aprox 350-400 for hi quality longer axles for the pair, not bad considering they will be made out of the same material as my off road race car uses. Do you know if ATV racing is 4 inches wider in the back or 4.5? I was looking at the rear top arm, that will be very simple to make and the rest of the links are beyond simple to make. on my pilot I am going to use a 12 inch coilover fox in the rear and make a internal shim to stop the down travel where ever it needs to be so the cv does not over extend. Just trial and erer. Regarding the above post about a adjustable shock mount give me a couple of days to really look at it and see if I can come up with something. Can you give me a idea of what lengths you need? hoser I can understand not wanting to cut up the tub, didnt know atvs kit did that. There is so darn little info on any of there stuff, including pictures, its almost like they sweep it off the net!. If you could give me links or photos up close of the arms and bump steer think I am sure I can come up with something to not screw with the tub because I don't want to cut mine up. Unfortunately I am have a difficult time with the rear making it where you don't have to weld on it but I have just started so give me some time thanks for the time and info---Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:57 am 
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No pics or LT steering info on the minibuggy site?

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/haussLT-2.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:22 am 
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Should I post pics of the LT setup on the FL800?

I don't have Neil's ex stadiumlite from ATVRacing LT500 anymore to show the setup,wish I kept pics of the LT on it.

Maybe the more LT pics from members buggies the better,so that Dave has more to chew on?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:23 pm 
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I just started following and hope that you are successful on your quest to find a low cost lt kit Dave. I would also like to point out that akpilot built a bump steer kit without cutting into the foot tub. Oh and post some pics and info of your eee


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Cowboys setup worked well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Pic of that suspension would really help I bet! That set up was in every posting the top of the food chain.
I welcome this project AND THANK YOU for doing it as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Here are a few pics of the TJ Pilot bump steer set up. It is a pretty simple design with no need to cut the foot tub, & IMO worked well.
I hope this helps...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:23 pm 
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I still have Mudbogger's LT Pilot here I can take all the pics you want of the ATVR bump steer kit but whats the point I rather see a bolt on design and a design that does not require modification of the tub, its just a basic drag link setup like found on many other machines nothing top secret or state of the art.

Rather see you look at others like adnoh's and or Hauss's

I like the Hauss steering setup because of the way he mounted the tie rods to the steering stem, they are closer to center and mount stacked like the FL350 the Pilot goes threw a arc with the side by side mounting arrangement, the rest I think is pretty much a copy of the ATVR setup.

If you need pics or measurements off the ATVR setup let me know.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:12 pm 
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on the rear the axles are 2 inches longer then stock so the rear total is 4 inches wider and the front is 4 1/2 each side for a total of 9 inches wider.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Hoser ,should this be moved to its own thread?I think its gonna be a long one and so we don't load up the Yoda thread with non-related info.Just sayin? :-)

Cowboys steering is far from being bolt on I believe,but would still be a good source for ideas.
I agree with hoser,find the pics of Adnohs setup and also the dude that was selling the bolt on kit for the odys,his looked good in my opinion.

I have some pics I can add but I'll wait to see about a new thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Mudbogger wrote:
Pic of that suspension would really help I bet! That set up was in every posting the top of the food chain.
I welcome this project AND THANK YOU for doing it as well.
I really like the uniball on the arm verces a ball joint. That is the way I will do the arm I think. Works on race trucks, why not Pilots to?. Thank you for the photos, I cannot for the life of me can believe it cost that much to add 2.4 to the rear from ATV, the rear will be simpler than the front, except for the top arm everything else is straight!! 3390, and 850 for labor for the front to install, and 850 for the rear to install. WoW! 2.4 per side is all it is. I was under the impresion it was 4 per side in the rear, but a phone call confirmed 2.4 per side. It is almost not worth doing the rear to gain so little
, maybe just a better shock? Naw if I am going to do it, ill do it!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:30 pm 
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With adding just 2 inches to the rear you gain 5 more inches of travel. From 7 to 12. Wonder if you go 2 1/2 wider each side if we could achive 13 to 14 inches in the rear?????


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:59 pm 
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yep. mine is 2.5 per side in the rear and moved back one. 3.5 to 4 will yeid you darn near 16/16.5, my front is plus four each side. hers a short vid with out axles in it. there still room for improvment in the camber dept.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:49 am 
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adnoh wrote:
yep. mine is 2.5 per side in the rear and moved back one. 3.5 to 4 will yeid you darn near 16/16.5, my front is plus four each side. hers a short vid with out axles in it. there still room for improvment in the camber dept.


Any CV binding at 16/16.5 travel?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:19 pm 
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"H" not tested. armswere just mocked up. The axle angle was right around 30. no way to tell until one is stuck in and cycled. I did find some pics of cowboys to share and some info on yoda if not alredy here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:34 pm 
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few more I found


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:36 pm 
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few more of a board member


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