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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
One last thing, I put the econo hymes on the front arms for my own learning experience to see how they hold up. I know a lot of people use these but I wanted to see for myself how they hold up. I used the best I could buy on all the bumpsteer hymes and all the rear links but was curious how these would hold up because truth be told I would not have used these cheep hymes in a million years on anything before. So far so good, no issues so far, but I wanted to try it before I would ever sell a set of arms with them, I would rather sell them with the best hymes and bushings but after this weekend I don't feel so negative about the econo hymes as I did when I first put them on


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Your pilot looks great Dave really top notch. Ill have to get a full set from you for my next pilot for sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Thank you Rusty, means a lot to me, come down sometime and we will fab it up


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 461
Will you be selling kits? If so any idea when? It looks really nice and your ride reports seem to solve all the problems of the other manufacturers.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Yes I will sell kits when someone wants one anyway I got lucky on the steering, my son said try it toed in a few inches and it was great so we took a couple turns out and tried it and a couple more etc till it started to pull and went back and eliminated all the bad steering it had. I thought I was crazy when my son said just try it this way LOL you could see the wheels completly toad in lol


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3421
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Looking good so far Dave,well done.

Couple of questions,with that much toe-in does it affect top end speed any?
Do you have any current front tyre/wheel pics showing the toe-in from in front and top?
Will you be making the anti-bump steer setup as well?
Can you post up any vids of it all in action?
I think that was more than a couple of questions? :-)
I too am interested in a kit,cost?
Cheers Baz.

oddy59@iprimus.com.au


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Very nice job! If people with the ATVR setup just changed their springs to softer springs they would be a lot happier. That would be be so cool if you sell sets for what they should cost and your work looks great.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3421
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Just received a Topic reply notification - "LT Pilot Kit By Dave-Co", from afastcar reply.
That has'nt happened in a L O N Gggg... while,looks like it's self-healing, trying to reserect, form-up again like the Terminator's molten metal man? :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 835
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Congratulations Dave, looks like a very very awesome setup.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
Thank you for the nice comments, to answer Bugeye59s question about the toe in I found it did nothing to hurt the speed, and even if it did just a little the gigantic change in the steering and handling far far outways any speed loss from toe in. I run a 23-7-10 Kenda claw xc up front, burned 5 tanks of fuel over the weekend and the tits are still on the front tires so I think on that lite of a vehicle it is a non issue. If you are having a push problem as you have stated before give this a try. I did and was amazed at the difference. Also add a couple degrees negative camber also, really helps with push


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3421
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Thanks on the advice Dave,will try some more toe-in then,and am already running a few degrees of negative camber.
I think I speak for a lot us here when I ask for videos of your LTPilot,nothing shows it better,and would be an advantage for your pending sales.
Also I live in Perth,Western Australia-Downunder,could'nt be further from each other! :-)
Do you have any probs posting your stuff Downunder?
A lot of USA sellers don't want to deal with us foreigners!Image

Cheers Baz.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: near NJ rider
Sooooo.....Let me get this straight.

You bought a "bump steer kit" (who ever came up with that name is ghey)from ebay?Are you going to buy more to sell with your "kits"?
You guessed at the shock location?(don't know why its so easy to figure out the right way.)
You guessed at the toe settings? ("couple INCHES in sounds about right!)

that's cool that your son is getting into welding.My 10 year old daughters mig welds USED to look just like that.

A few quotes...
"which NO ATV pilot can be said"-pretty bold statement,I guess you've driven every one in the world?
"toad in" -WTF?

Good thing your selling them super cheap,whats the price up too?$300 $400?

Cant wait for the video.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
I would not sell you air if you were drowning. People who make your kind of comments have no room for my stuff ever. Good luck to all. Hope you are proud of your over priced POS FOR IF IT IS ANYTHING LIKE MY FRIENDS 2 PILES set up completly by ...YOU HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO. and even if you made changes to the shocks, or if you changed the arms then it no longer is a ... pilot there is no substitute for genuine wheel travel, over 3 inches more in the rear that no pilot made by them will have with the arms they make and sell along with that shorter shock you are forced to use with there rear arm. no way no how no chance. so yes I am very confident in my statment. I have never set one of these up in my life, but I guess I would be very defensive and butt hurt to if I spent that huge ridicules insane stupid kind of money then found someone who wanted to help others instead of bleed them dry with something that cannot be compaired, don't think so read above, inches of wheeltravel make a huge difference. anyway I will just do my own and forget selling to anyone. your all welcome to copy anything if you like. A BIG Thank you goes to hoser, afastcar and the others who helped with ideas and gave me links. I simply do not have time or energy to deal with people like this and this just has opened my eyes to the fact it aint worth it because there is always that 1. I am very sorry to the ones I am sure are not and my whole intention was to help others. sorry for the rant hoser---Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: near NJ rider
Dave-Co wrote:
I would not sell you air if you were drowning. People who make your kind of comments have no room for my stuff ever. Good luck


Excactly what I was hoping you would say.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 461
I think all the time and effort you put into this project is awesome. I like the fact your whole intention was to help everyone who wanted help the opportunity to get something comparable/better at a fair price. I am still interested in your setup and would not have a problem purchasing a kit. Rusty brought my pilot back to me after doing some work on it and I asked him about it. He had nothing but good remarks about you and your quality of work. So for what it's worth I'm still interested if you plan on selling kits.
Thanks
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 266
I'm willing to purchase a complete kit when u go into production.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22128
Location: Chicago
We need to see if Lee can find out the application for the OEM front upper and lower ball joints so the stock arms do not have to be cut up for just the ball joints.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: near NJ rider
"I simply do not have time or energy to deal with people like this and this just has opened my eyes to the fact it aint worth it because there is always that 1."

Because of one silly persons comments on a gokart forum your not going to help out all the other enthusiasts?

You can thank me later for giving you an out' ,for something you didnt really want to do in the first place then.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22128
Location: Chicago
While you have your thinking cap still on think about a bolt on bump steer kit mount and design where you don't have to cut up your plastic tub to install sorta like the Adnoh design.

I assumed from the start your no different than anybody else here and between your day job and family don't have a lot of time to build kits, I would just build a kit as you get time then offer it up for sale.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
hoser that would be great, the ball joints on the 2003 Honda 300ex look to be exact as the pilots. That is only a visual of the ones on my 300ex. I do believe the welded on ball joints like the pilots are a very good joint with a lot of articulation. Seeing replaceable ball joints that bent on some of the suspension threads really make me want to stay away from them like the ones used on that odyssey that had all the steering problems. I am going to my off road store today and look into uniballs, and try making a set of front arms with them instead of ball joints. Have no idea how much travel they will give, I think they will do well. They use them all day long on trophy trucks and other open class race cars, a lot bigger of course but the same desing That would be great and cost effective because I think my price is about 20-25 bucks each for the complete uniball assembly if I remember rite. I saw them used on that yellow LT pilot so they obviously work. I agree with hoser that it sucks to cut up the stock arms, I really wanted to try building a set of arms with the stock ball joints after seeing how far they traveled on the stock arms with the shock removed, almost 11 inches with the tie rod hitting the frame top and bottom and these were my only option but on the other end after driving my LT pilot my stock arms would have had more of a chance sprouting wings and flying than ever returning to the front or rear of my pilot but then again someone who needs a stock arm lost that chance at mine when I cut mine up. Maybe the uniball will be the answer, I am definitely into spending the money and trying it, I still have 40ft of 4130. I was also given a great idea on mounting the bump steer with out welding onto the frame for those that don't want to weld to it. everything goes into the same position only it welds to a half tube top and bottom and either hose clamped to the frame or you could use some type of muffler clamp to hold it. If the frame tube is 1.5 then cut a 1.5/8 or 1.3/4 tube in half and weld it to that, you could make it long enough to double clamp it if desired. After being told about it it seems so simple. My friend has been using it that way for years on his pilot with no issue. So there is another idea for that, you could make the piece long enough to clamp on both sides of the shock mount tube and the same on the bottom to add a couple more clamps if desired. Only drawback is the tub still needs to be clearenced for the steering stops only but I think changes could be made to the stop position to where you wouldn't have to. I used my friends jig on mine and didnt take the time to look into any other methods because I was in a hurry and had to cut mine as minimal as possible but it still is a good size hole down by the factory drain? holes. Thinking about it I think the stops could hit the little arms from a different direction leaving the tub intact. That is the 1 and only reason the tub has to have a hole put into it is for the steering stops. All this is for the ATV racing steering kit but others could be mounted this way. I will say there kit is nice the way they put berrings in the swing arms, makes the steering so easy. No idea where to buy those bearings, they have a metric hole. If anyone knows what kind of berring it is or where to buy them I would like to know. Bob and Rick thank you very much, I will continue forward as I have said I want to help others get something that is reasonable in price that would normally kill ones bank account and prevent them from going LT. There is nothing I hate more than being gouged by anyone. I never mind someone making a profit, that's what makes the world go round but All ...s stuff could be sold for 1/2 as much and he still would make a giant profit. Bullnerd I wont let someone like you bother me, I for certain will never sell to you but wish you the best. Off to ORW to buy uniballs! hoser if you find out about ball joints please let me know---Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
hoser wrote:
While you have your thinking cap still on think about a bolt on bump steer kit mount and design where you don't have to cut up your plastic tub to install sorta like the Adnoh design.

I assumed from the start your no different than anybody else here and between your day job and family don't have a lot of time to build kits, I would just build a kit as you get time then offer it up for sale.
hoser just wanted to thank you for this, good way to do it and yes my time gets very limited sometimes. Going to try the uniball thing and see how it goes. But thanks again---Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
went and looked into the uniball, in my opinion it will not give enough articulation in the size needed to fit a pilot unfortunately. Going to look into some other options. Anyone have any experience with the ricky stator ball joints? I was also thinking about a international tie rod end like we once used on the front tie rod ends of my race cars -::


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22128
Location: Chicago
Dave-Co wrote:
went and looked into the uniball, in my opinion it will not give enough articulation in the size needed to fit a pilot unfortunately. Going to look into some other options. Anyone have any experience with the ricky stator ball joints? I was also thinking about a international tie rod end like we once used on the front tie rod ends of my race cars -::



viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10648&start=0


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 550
been away for a while, family deaths,(3) in close succession, a host of Baja 1000 cars I had to finish, last week I went mad on pilot number 2 did the entire project in 4 days trying to keep things off my mind. pretty much like pilot number 1 except for the location angle of the piece the ball joint goes into that raised the rear end up a little more and the front end I used my friends spare front arms because my 1 inch die failed after doing the rear top arms. will post pictures later to nite or tomorrow. Ran perfect last week.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have bobs arms i need to drop off to you and need to make some rear uppers up for a few pilots im doing as well.


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